Re-opening Ontario plan

[Fun For All]

I am disappointed in Doug Ford's new re-opening plan...way to cautious and way to slow of a process...

-today, golf courses and tennis courts can open, they could have been open a month ago.
-sports fields can open but no team sports, what good is opening soccer/baseball fields if you can't play any of the sports on them.
-we can enter step one when 60% have received one dose and we are at 58% now, but we have to wait two weeks after that 60% have been achieved...why the wait, why not enter it when we reach 60%.
-step one has no indoor dining, outdoor gatherings at 10 people which means no youth baseball or soccer games...15% capacity for non-essential businesses and we still have to wear masks and distance.
-we can enter step two when 70% have received one dose and 20% have two doses and we have to wait two weeks after achieving those goals to enter that...why the wait.
- step two says outdoor leagues can continue but only with 25 people limits, you can't put a youth baseball game together with 25 or less people.

It's too slow and too cautious...they are opening stadiums in the USA and look at the way we have to live...Ontario has been the most restrictive with conditions in North American.

Cases, hospitalizations and deaths are down, vaccinations are up...do the math on what the odds are that you could contact COVID and die...

Ontario reveals three-step reopening plan, starting with outdoor activities, to ease pandemic restrictions

Ontario has announced a three-step plan to reopen the province, starting with outdoor recreational amenities, as it gradually prepares to ease pandemic restrictions.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

 

[G.D. Gentleman]

Looking at a calendar, working backwards from Monday July 5th after the next long weekend - 21 days is June 14th. Just a guess but the June 14th start and then 21 days (minimum) is to pick up the Canada Day long weekend in this plan.

Personal care services where a mask can be worn is not slated until Stage 2. Anyone who was hoping to get a haircut soon after June 2nd or even June 14th now has to wait until at least July 5th. I'm thankful I learned how to clip my own hair last year.

 

[Fun For All]

Here's some math...since the COVID crisis started, .04% of Ontario citizens have tested positive, .0006% have died...not 10%, not 5%, not even 1%, in fact, way less than that.

OK, we've all done our part to keep the bad numbers down...the bad numbers are pretty good, when is our provincial government going to be satisfied...

 

[Valcazar]

-we can enter step one when 60% have received one dose and we are at 58% now, but we have to wait two weeks after that 60% have been achieved...why the wait, why not enter it when we reach 60%.

The logic behind that is very straightforward. It takes two weeks for immunity to develop from the vaccine, so if you think "60% have protection" is the target, you need to wait two weeks after you hit that number of doses delivered.

 

[farquhar]

I agree in the sense that we are going to lose another summer and that is a real piss off....but, if we had been more cautious after the Christmas lockdown (and Justin had imported those vaccines faster), things probably wouldn't have gotten so fucked up in March and April that we had to shut everything down again...it is what it is.

 

[Fun For All]

The logic behind that is very straightforward. It takes two weeks for immunity to develop from the vaccine, so if you think "60% have protection" is the target, you need to wait two weeks after you hit that number of doses delivered.

I still think it's an over-abundance of caution that is taking the freedom away from the 99.96% of Ontario citizens who have not tested positive.

 

[Valcazar]

I still think it's an over-abundance of caution that is taking the freedom away from the 99.96% of Ontario citizens who have not tested positive.

I would have to look at the whole plan in context of the current numbers and think about it before deciding. (The history has been opening too fast and with little thought given to the logic, the science, and the benchmarks. Even if this is slower, I don't particularly trust the Ford government to have actually based anything on meaningful benchmarks and not public opinion polls.)
I just wanted to point out that the rationale behind the two week delay there was reasonable.

 

[Valcazar]

I would have to look at the whole plan in context of the current numbers and think about it before deciding. (The history has been opening too fast and with little thought given to the logic, the science, and the benchmarks. Even if this is slower, I don't particularly trust the Ford government to have actually based anything on meaningful benchmarks and not public opinion polls.)
I just wanted to point out that the rationale behind the two week delay there was reasonable.

Looking it over, my biggest problem with this is that it is based entirely on vaccination levels and not levels of community transmission.

 

[Fun For All]

Looking it over, my biggest problem with this is that it is based entirely on vaccination levels and not levels of community transmission.

In September, Ford said "We just need a little more time, please be patient"...that was 8 months ago.

 

[farquhar]

Looking it over, my biggest problem with this is that it is based entirely on vaccination levels and not levels of community transmission.

The Government of Ontario is giving citizens an incentive to get the vaccine; without mandating the vaccine. Not that Ontarians need much of an incentive; I predict the overall uptake will be between 80%-90%.

 

[Valcazar]

In September, Ford said "We just need a little more time, please be patient"...that was 8 months ago.

But what does that have to do with this?
That it took him this much time to release a plan?

The Government of Ontario is giving citizens an incentive to get the vaccine; without mandating the vaccine. Not that Ontarians need much of an incentive; I predict the overall uptake will be between 80%-90%.

That's probably the most generous way to interpret it.

 

[glamphotographer]

It's a good plan based on the science advisory table only for the covididiots to fuck it up. A slight uptick in cases today. I wonder how from Mother's day gatherings? Wonder how many tickets handed out this weekend?

 

[Fun For All]

But what does that have to do with this?
That it took him this much time to release a plan?

I was counting on in September that we were nearing the end...but it’s gone the opposite direction...lockdown followed by an extension followed by another lockdown with two extensions after that and now an extremely slow and overly cautious reopening plan...they’re putting people in stadiums in the US and we can’t go to a restaurant, even with a mask on...

 

[james t kirk]

Doug Ford is between a rock and the 16 inch armor belt of an Iowa class battleship with a 1000 ton press bearing down on top of him.

He's fucked no matter what he does.

After the second wave subsided in January or February he tried opening up only to have the numbers rocket up once again as we entered into the third wave. The media was all over him (as were many posters on this board.) I clearly recall Rosemary Barton putting on her serious face and constantly slagging Doug Ford and implying that Ford was responsible for the third wave while gushing (in her panties too) about Justin Trudeau. It was nonstop blame Doug Ford. The REALITY was that the third wave struck all over North America and even the world at the same time. I think it would not have mattered that much if Ford did anything any different.

So Ford is being super cautious now.

Doug Ford must be aging one week for every day of this pandemic. No one in their right mind would trade places with him and the heat that he's under. God knows, he never would have imagined this in his wildest nightmares.

I'm sure there's nothing Ford would rather do than open things up, but the fact of the matter is that the daily numbers are a long way from even poor. We seem to have gotten stuck around the 2000 cases per day level. Until those numbers drop substantially, there is no way in hell Ford will open up. It really is that simple.

The one thing I will say is if he opens schools any time soon, I'm going to just lose my mind. The daily cases clearly mirror the opening and closing of schools.

 

[Fun For All]

So Ford is being super cautious now.

Super cautious yes...

 

[csmitting]

I too am disappointed. I’ve lost my patience months ago with the continuous extensions, just another two weeks bullocks. Given how many people I’m seeing everywhere in groups it’s pretty clear so is most everyone else.

Given the mass disobedience, it’s a futile endeavour to keep this up for a few more weeks, .

this plan just looks like the lastest last minute duct taped together haphazard planning methods that I’ve come to expect from the Ont govt

 

[csmitting]

Looking at a calendar, working backwards from Monday July 5th after the next long weekend - 21 days is June 14th. Just a guess but the June 14th start and then 21 days (minimum) is to pick up the Canada Day long weekend in this plan.

Personal care services where a mask can be worn is not slated until Stage 2. Anyone who was hoping to get a haircut soon after June 2nd or even June 14th now has to wait until at least July 5th. I'm thankful I learned how to clip my own hair last year.

Or massage

 

[Valcazar]

I was counting on in September that we were nearing the end...but it’s gone the opposite direction...lockdown followed by an extension followed by another lockdown with two extensions after that and now an extremely slow and overly cautious reopening plan...they’re putting people in stadiums in the US and we can’t go to a restaurant, even with a mask on...

It's like they are two different countries with different situations, even.

 

[csmitting]

It's a good plan based on the science advisory table only for the covididiots to fuck it up. A slight uptick in cases today. I wonder how from Mother's day gatherings? Wonder how many tickets handed out this weekend?

I thought I read (I could be wrong) that the Covid table was actually split, but hid&seek Dougie refused break the tie to open things cause he is afraid to be the one who makes that decision.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the plan is being drafted by people of whom none of who want to make the actual decisions. They are all working first and foremost as making sure they pass the buck and ultimately can blame someone else if needed.

 

[Valcazar]

I thought I read (I could be wrong) that the Covid table was actually split, but hid&seek Dougie refused break the tie to open things cause he is afraid to be the one who makes that decision.

I hadn't heard that but it would be consistent with his general political cowardice.