RE agent vs selling yourself?

wazup

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2010
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I have 2 homes and one has to go. A cousin told me to try it on kijiji but you might get time wasting tire kickers. Whereas an agent has access to much more and might get the extra 5% anyway to cover their commission, anyone have an opinion on this?

To make matters worse I like both places equally so I don't now which to pick to live in.
 
I would go with an agent. You would get more access to buyers since agents prefer dealing with each other for the commission.
 
I would go with an agent. You would get more access to buyers since agents prefer dealing with each other for the commission.

No they don't, they really want to be the only agent in a deal, although it rarely happens.
 
I wasn't aware of that. What was the purpose of that?
 
In a seller's market there's no need for an agent. In a buyer's market they can be useful.
 
In a seller's market there's no need for an agent. In a buyer's market they can be useful.

Uh, it is not a seller's market.

Hasn't been in probably a year now. The market and prices have cooled substantially, especially once you're out of the downtown core. New mortgage rules, rising interest rates, all taking their toll, along with just fear that the market has gone too high and prices don't reflect reality.
 
First off, let me say this......

There is not a profession out there that I am more skeptical of than real estate agents. In my opinion, the fees are just plan NUTS. Insane. And people pay it. I have often used the analogy of building a house. If one was building a house and hired an architect or engineer to design said house and the professional said, "my fee is 6 percent", people would gag at that. Yet a real estate agent figures that he or she is worth 5 or 6 percent. And people pay it. An architect or engineer has gone to university for 4 or 5 or more years, studied, gained experience, and learned the nuances and details of the profession. They need to be extremely intelligent and talented and need to go a good job. Yet no-one will pay them 5 or 6 percent. A real estate agent has taken a few part time time courses with some flunky-assed association and bangs a sign in your front lawn and puts the house on the MLS and the place sells based on its merit or lack there of.

But be that as it may, I have tried in the past to sell a house myself and failed. The reason is simple:

Everyone thinks that if you're selling a house yourself that there is something wrong, or they can swindle you. You get nothing but flakes.

Whether you like it or not, for some reason at this point in Canadian history, real estate agents seem to have hoodwinked people to think that this is how you have to buy a house.

My advice to anyone thinking about trying to sell a house yourself is to think twice. I would strongly recommend that you negotiate the lowest possible commission possible. 4 percent, 3.5% (both of which are still obscene). No matter what, if you are selling a house, you really need to do your own homework. Tour the neighbourhood first, see what is available for comparison purposes, make note of all features and short comings, and find out how much they actually sold for. Even if you're hiring an agent, you need to do this because many agents will just try to convince you to take the first offer that comes along because they want the commission. Nothing else. If you aren't educated, you open yourself up to getting ripped off on all fronts. Take some time and educate yourself.
 
Uh, it is not a seller's market.

Hasn't been in probably a year now. The market and prices have cooled substantially, especially once you're out of the downtown core. New mortgage rules, rising interest rates, all taking their toll, along with just fear that the market has gone too high and prices don't reflect reality.

I didn't say that it was or wasn't.
 
Uh, it is not a seller's market.

Hasn't been in probably a year now. The market and prices have cooled substantially, especially once you're out of the downtown core. New mortgage rules, rising interest rates, all taking their toll, along with just fear that the market has gone too high and prices don't reflect reality.

The selling rates are already back to what they were last year
And condos are ABOVE last years rates

It def is a sellers market
Unless you live in middle of nowhere with a 40 year old home
 
The selling rates are already back to what they were last year
And condos are ABOVE last years rates

It def is a sellers market
Unless you live in middle of nowhere with a 40 year old home

Really?

Read this:

http://trebhome.com/market_news/release_market_updates/news2018/nr_market_watch_0518.htm

But hey, they are only the Toronto Real Estate Board. What do they know right?

As to Condos, there are supposedly over 100,000 vacant condos right now in the city. So much so that the city is considering imposing a vacant property tax believe it or not.
 
I looked at a couple different options for selling my last home.

comfree
discount brokerage
5% brokerage

comfree to me seemed a lot like a hassle. I didnt want to talk to the tire kickers and answer any question. didnt feel like doing open houses. it would have cost just under $700 for their basic package. add another 2k if you want the next level package.

I found feeduck which is a website that has multiple realtors bidding to sell your home. I ended up paying only 3%. 2 to the buyer and 1 to the selling agent. they staged the home and took picture/virtual tour on youtube. considering the quality of the staging and the picture Im sure the realtor barely made much on the deal. there was also Pcs275 which offered 2 to the buyer and .75 to the seller. they didnt not offer the same services as the feeduck realtor.

5% brokerage had a great sales pitch and offered standard services.

I have a difficult time paying fees for realtors. I find their fees very high for what you get. I went with feeduck. I saved a couple of thousand dollars and didnt lift a finger
 
The RE industry is an interesting and fucked up one in many respects.

1) The barriers to entry are low, and that's why there are now 52,000 agents in the GTA. 1/3 of them make zero sales a year. Half make 1 sale or less a year. But it's a lucrative gig for those that excel at it. To make an average living wage, an agent has to sell over 4 properties (due to desk fees, license fees, brokerage split - 70/30, etc) to earn about $55k/year. That's easier said than done and so it's a part time gig for most. Think about how often you buy or sell a home. One deal and your agent is shit out of luck for years on your return business. But that's just how the business works, so no need to shed tears for agents. 15k agents did more than 4 sales in 2017. Let's double that and say a really good wage (over $110k/year) for selling 8 properties per year. 7000 agents in the GTA did that in 2017. 2500 agents did 15 sales, 1300 agents did 20 sales... and so on.

The yearly agent license renewal fee is $1500 which is largely an industry cash grab in itself. 52k agents paying $1500 per year is $78 million per year. All that money, for what? Maintaining the TREB database? lol

2) Agents have access to MLS which gives agents an advantage that Joe Blow can't compete with. Agents can pull up sales stats, make comparisons, and promote much easier than a person without that access. Hopefully this will change soon when the court throws out the industry's challenge to keep that info "private". Sites like mongohouse.com are popping up posting sales data. You just have to register a free account. In addition to gaining access to the stats, perhaps it should be made so that Joe Blow can list his property on MLS by himself.

3) Agents are salespeople and most don't give a shit about you. I buy rental properties thru a friend who is an agent and I always do my own homework. If I didn't, I would overpay. I use him because he gives me kickbacks and offers very helpful ancillary services/contacts that keep costs down on maintaining and renovating properties (i.e. contractor buddies).

4) Perception/expertise - at the end of the day, whether it's warranted or not, most people are not confident about buying or selling their home alone. It's one of the biggest financial decisions of a person's life so they understandably defer to 'experts'. Although a lot of the agreements and processes are standardized (as are the use of common sense clauses, conditions) to the point of almost being formalities, if you don't know, you just don't know and it becomes too risky for most people to undertake. This is why there may be room for agents long into the future.


In 2020, OREA will no longer be involved in the education of new agents. Real estate agent licensing is going to become a college course. I'm actually going to take the course before that happens so that I have an RE license since I buy real estate and it'll save me from paying commissions. I get my mortgage agent license mid July for the same reason. Rather than just being a buyer/seller/landlord which are all front end positions, I want to have full access to all aspects on the back end too - get my own mortgages and handle buy/sales myself. It all makes sense since RE is my bread and butter and it's always been of interest to me.
 
I have 2 homes and one has to go. A cousin told me to try it on kijiji but you might get time wasting tire kickers. Whereas an agent has access to much more and might get the extra 5% anyway to cover their commission, anyone have an opinion on this?

To make matters worse I like both places equally so I don't now which to pick to live in.

So, I have a few rental properties. In the past I have bought and flipped homes using a RE. That cuts into your profits. Over time I realized that if you have a good lawyer you don't need the RE. I sold a property last year and did it myself, better market and didn't need to really do much. Put up a sign on the front lawn and it was sold in 2 days.

There a few website site out there that allow you to advertise, https://comfree.com/on/sell#why-sell-with-comfree.

The market has slowed down drastically, a RE is going to have to work for their commission. It might be labour intensive for you in this market.

Just my thoughts.
 
It's a seller's market?

I thought everything came to a grinding halt. Unit sales are down and prices have been flat/stabilized since all the new rules and rising rates came in.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought real estate sales have been pretty dead since early 2017.
 
The RE industry is an interesting and fucked up one in many respects.

1) The barriers to entry are low, and that's why there are now 52,000 agents in the GTA. 1/3 of them make zero sales a year. Half make 1 sale or less a year. But it's a lucrative gig for those that excel at it. To make an average living wage, an agent has to sell over 4 properties (due to desk fees, license fees, brokerage split - 70/30, etc) to earn about $55k/year. That's easier said than done and so it's a part time gig for most. Think about how often you buy or sell a home. One deal and your agent is shit out of luck for years on your return business. But that's just how the business works, so no need to shed tears for agents. 15k agents did more than 4 sales in 2017. Let's double that and say a really good wage (over $110k/year) for selling 8 properties per year. 7000 agents in the GTA did that in 2017. 2500 agents did 15 sales, 1300 agents did 20 sales... and so on.

The yearly agent license renewal fee is $1500 which is largely an industry cash grab in itself. 52k agents paying $1500 per year is $78 million per year. All that money, for what? Maintaining the TREB database? lol

2) Agents have access to MLS which gives agents an advantage that Joe Blow can't compete with. Agents can pull up sales stats, make comparisons, and promote much easier than a person without that access. Hopefully this will change soon when the court throws out the industry's challenge to keep that info "private". Sites like mongohouse.com are popping up posting sales data. You just have to register a free account. In addition to gaining access to the stats, perhaps it should be made so that Joe Blow can list his property on MLS by himself.

3) Agents are salespeople and most don't give a shit about you. I buy rental properties thru a friend who is an agent and I always do my own homework. If I didn't, I would overpay. I use him because he gives me kickbacks and offers very helpful ancillary services/contacts that keep costs down on maintaining and renovating properties (i.e. contractor buddies).

4) Perception/expertise - at the end of the day, whether it's warranted or not, most people are not confident about buying or selling their home alone. It's one of the biggest financial decisions of a person's life so they understandably defer to 'experts'. Although a lot of the agreements and processes are standardized (as are the use of common sense clauses, conditions) to the point of almost being formalities, if you don't know, you just don't know and it becomes too risky for most people to undertake. This is why there may be room for agents long into the future.


In 2020, OREA will no longer be involved in the education of new agents. Real estate agent licensing is going to become a college course. I'm actually going to take the course before that happens so that I have an RE license since I buy real estate and it'll save me from paying commissions. I get my mortgage agent license mid July for the same reason. Rather than just being a buyer/seller/landlord which are all front end positions, I want to have full access to all aspects on the back end too - get my own mortgages and handle buy/sales myself. It all makes sense since RE is my bread and butter and it's always been of interest to me.

The stupidest thing about selling a property is that both agent's on both sides are actually working together to a degree. If you are selling, the higher the price you sell for the more the agent gets. That makes sense.

But if you are a buyer, that agent also gets paid more the higher the price. It should be the reverse. The lower the price, the more they get, where some funky formula should come in to split the savings.

That's why you rarely get buyer agents negotiating hard. They just tell their client to hurry up and buy or you miss out. The more bidding wars the better as every agent on both sides gets more money.
 
It's a seller's market?

I thought everything came to a grinding halt. Unit sales are down and prices have been flat/stabilized since all the new rules and rising rates came in.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought real estate sales have been pretty dead since early 2017.

Sales are way down from 2017 but prices are creeping back up in the City of Toronto proper. When June stats are released by TREB in a few days it may even show detached houses with year-over-year gains for the first time this year (e.g. see stats at https://housesigma.com/site/home/market ) . Condos in the core are still breaking price records with double digit gains. In the City of Toronto, months-of-inventory is still very low at around 2 months which is technically considered a relatively strong Seller's market. A Balanced market is 4 - 6 months, and a Buyer's market is 6+ months of inventory. Theoretically prices can keep climbing under Seller market conditions. But with current debt levels all it takes is for one shoe to drop for the market to retract. The odds of another interest rate hike on July 11th stands at 80%. It alone won't do the job, but it certainly won't strengthen buying power either.
 
Really?

Read this:

http://trebhome.com/market_news/release_market_updates/news2018/nr_market_watch_0518.htm

But hey, they are only the Toronto Real Estate Board. What do they know right?

As to Condos, there are supposedly over 100,000 vacant condos right now in the city. So much so that the city is considering imposing a vacant property tax believe it or not.

Actually if you did bother to read; what is the second paragraph even saying about homes?

Supply of homes available for sale continued to be an issue. New listings were down by 26.2 per cent. The fact that new listings were down by more than sales in comparison to last year means that competition increased between buyers.


Which is EXACTLY what I said
Limited listings equals increased competition hence it is a sellers market when you do list

Try again?
 
Actually if you did bother to read; what is the second paragraph even saying about homes?
Supply of homes available for sale continued to be an issue. New listings were down by 26.2 per cent. The fact that new listings were down by more than sales in comparison to last year means that competition increased between buyers.
Which is EXACTLY what I said
Limited listings equals increased competition hence it is a sellers market when you do list
Try again?


Where is the property location and what is the overall condition of the house?

It does not matter if it's a seller's market if the property location is in a low demand area and/or the house is a handyman's special.
Of course, depending on how motivated the owner is in selling.