Racial Profiling & the Escort Biz

[Monte Cristo]

Before I expound upon the if, how, and why (based upon my own humble experiences working in the biz), I'd like to pose a few questions to those who fall within the demographics of a visible minority:

Has racial profiling ever affected you in any way? If yes, how often (percentage-wise)? Agency or indie? Was there any reason given to excuse themselves from accommodating your booking?

With the news media going balls-out on the recent expose by the Star and the subsequent libel suit, I wondered, as provocative an issue as it is, how hobbyists felt when dealt with the same kind of discrimination within the escort industry.

Not unlike other minorities who may have suffered at the hands of our local constabulary, it would appear (on the surface, anyway) that there is little recourse for the client when it occurs in the sex trade. I mean, really... who can you complain to for vindication? And is it worth the risk of exposing yourself publicly?

Conversely speaking, what agency/indie in their right mind would initiate a libel/defamation suit should someone happen to muster up the balls and publicly "out" said perpetrator?

Food for thought, I suppose. Perhaps a poll would be a better way to go about it. Unfortunately, I haven't a clue as to how to set that up.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

This topic in different forms has come up before. There are for example certain SPs/MPs/Dancers who will not offer service to whatever ethnic. Their reasons vary. Very seldom would I call it racism. IMHO the reasons are valid. Just last night for example I was at a SC and a dancer there told me she never dances for a certain ethnic. There are even ads in the paper (very few) that say something to the effect wht only or something similar.

When I was a dance agency manager I was often requested not to send a certain ethnic with the excuse always "I have enough of that ethnic already" While I may have felt from time to time sometimes there was a bit of racism there (by the sound or attitude of persons voice whatever) if one was to go to that SC most of the time you would find he was speaking the truth. That sometimes caused a bit of difficulty if a dancer came in and said to me "I want to work at so&so SC" Most of the time though I would simply tell them the truth that I had been requested not to send her ethnic because there was already too many at that SC. Most of the time not a big deal.

If you want to start a pole on ethnicity that might be fun or interesting I think maybe for the hobbyist on preference of or what ethnic turns them on the most. I have no qualms about publicly stating I have personally tried many different ethnics in my lifetime but never have I tried one of the ones that turn me on the most. E. Indian.

 

[spartan5782]

Before I expound upon the if, how, and why (based upon my own humble experiences working in the biz), I'd like to pose a few questions to those who fall within the demographics of a visible minority:

Has racial profiling ever affected you in any way? If yes, how often (percentage-wise)? Agency or indie? Was there any reason given to excuse themselves from accommodating your booking?

Visible Minority...I'm sure I fall in that category (unless you mean someone who's seen by a very few?? Being Black affords me instant recognition over say a religious minority or national origin (although there is one Escort that claims to hate all State-side dwellers..go figure)

In anycase, I'd have to say that I have never felt a racial bias against me by either an Escort or MPA in the year + I've been Hobbying. Both are typically private, closed door sessions where the "group" pressure doesn't exist or if she does have a personal bias, it can lay dormant for the sake of business and is not expressed.

Public pressures...that seems to be a little different. I was in a SC here in Michigan and took a fancy to a particular dancer on stage. She was making her rounds but noticeably skipped me. I thought "WTF" as I tried to get her attention (waiving the customary moolah feverishly), to no avail. I looked around and finally noticed I was the only Black there and figured out there was no way she's going to piss off the "regulars". Good business decision, but of course I felt like crap as I left, albeit a couple hundred dollars richer (silver lining?). When I think back on it though, she probably did as much to save my ass as she did her own. The "Good Old Boys" didn't seem in the mood for any shit as I was leaving.

Agency Escorts and MPAs are more public than private and thus take on the flavor of the establishment and owner. Money is their driving force and I would think they generally wouldn't tolerate anything that might jeopardize business and income.

Independents on the other hand are free to choose their clients and discriminate at will. I don't view their business the same as a restaurant or apartment rental. If a White Escort chooses not to see Black Clients or a Black Escort chooses not to see White Clients for whatever reason, I actually don't have a problem with that. I do think they should advertise this fact so as not to mislead, hurt or embarrass a potential client (could lead to a very dangerous situation). I would actually prefer to spend my money with someone who also enjoys (I know, I know) my time as well.

Bottom line, I've always treated Escorts and MPAs of various colors and backgrounds with the utmost respect and they have all treated me in kind. I have never been denied service and color has never even been mentioned. Maybe one day I will run into the "Oh no, I don't do Blacks", but at that point I'll get over the pain, ask her "Why the hell didn't you put that on your website?" and go about the business of finding another.

I do love this Hobby!!

 

[Dr69]

See, in just one post, Kiarra has racially profiled three visible minorities.

Black men are rough in bed.
East Indian men are cheap and smell funny.
Asian men try to get off too many times and waste precious condoms.

Interesting. Do you have any other generalizations that you would like to share with us?

 

[fijiman]

See, in just one post, Kiarra has racially profiled three visible minorities.

Black men are rough in bed.
East Indian men are cheap and smell funny.
Asian men try to get off too many times and waste precious condoms.

Interesting. Do you have any other generalizations that you would like to share with us?

Out of context and unfair.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Bravo, Kiara!

I admire your intestinal fortitude in telling it like it is. It's unfortunate that there are some who will misinterpret your words and read into it what they desire.

Nighthawk, I'm sure we've had similar experiences. I caught one comment you made in another thread intimating that drivers (the good ones, I might add) usually end up taking on the role of a pseudo-psychologist/surrogate brother or father, etc. Bang on with that one too! I've spent many a late night/early morning with a sobbing sp's head on my shoulder as well. It was the toughest part of the job to take...

It appears that there really isn't much to add to Kiarra's salient points as they are absolutely true and rather succinct. As stated, each group has a quirk. You can even break down the whites into sub-categories and find destinct variances.

There was a time way back in the dark ages of the escort biz when girls would refuse to see black men but for a very different reason. In those days, most girls were under the influence of a pimp or Mack Daddy. If a girl belonged to a man and she ended up at a call booked by another pimp/player, he would simply put her on charge (she becomes his property and can only leave by paying a fee - usually ten grand). You can imagine the trouble that something like this could create! If her former pimp got her back (comes down to street influence and the pecking order or cash), you can bet her ass was gonna get whipped. Can we say pimp stick? Sometimes, the pimp wouldn't even wait for a confrontation and simply scoop up his new "bitch" and head for another town. Things were pretty crazy back then.

 

[Goober Mcfly]

... expound ... pose a few questions ... demographics ... visible minority ... accommodating ... subsequent ... provocative ... discrimination ... constabulary ... recourse ... vindication ... Conversely speaking ... initiate a libel/defamation suit ... perpetrator ... intestinal ... misinterpret ... intimating ... pseudo-psychologist/surrogate brother or father ... salient points ... rather succinct ... quirk ... sub-categories ... destinct variances.

Does anyone have a dictionary I could borrow? Nice wording, thesaurus-boy.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

I agree....

... It appears that there really isn't much to add to Kiarra's salient points as they are absolutely true and rather succinct. As stated, each group has a quirk. You can even break down the whites into sub-categories and find destinct variances.

There was a time way back in the dark ages of the escort biz when girls would refuse to see black men but for a very different reason. In those days, ... Things were pretty crazy back then.

I agree with you & Kiarra both for sure. I learned this many years ago long before I became involved in the adult biz. I had a door to door sales job when I was 18 y/o. The owner of the biz would drive us around to different areas of GTA and would coach us before letting us out to canvass. He would say "OK... the people in this area are *insert ethnic* so here is how you approuch or sell them" Most of the time he hit the nail on the head.

As for your comments about pimps & mack daddy... don't kid yourself... it's still going on today much more then you care to know. Ask any street walker working the Church/Carlton/Jarvis/Gerrard block.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Re: I agree....

As for your comments about pimps & mack daddy... don't kid yourself... it's still going on today much more then you care to know. Ask any street walker working the Church/Carlton/Jarvis/Gerrard block.

I agree, but it's more of a street issue. Not so prevalent within the escort realm. Street girls are deathly afraid of even making eye contact with another black man. It signals acceptance.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Re: Re: Racial Profiling & the Escort Biz

Does anyone have a dictionary I could borrow? Nice wording, thesaurus-boy.

Didn't you go to school? It's all rather plebeian to me. But alas, I could dumb it down for you if neccessary...

 

[Dr69]

kiarra, I am not sure what I should be apologizing for. You made certain statements and I just summarized what you said. Now if you look at what I said, it isn't at all different from what you have said in your post. I just didn't try to sugarcoat it or anything.

Are these generalizations true? I don't know. People here seem to think that they are. There was another escort here who wanted to know if it was ok to advertise in her ad that she would only see caucasian men. She didn't want to see blacks or Asians. This attitude seems very prevalent in the escort industry. It is just irritating to see these types of views being continually expressed in what is supposed to be a multicultural society.

 

[fijiman]

kiarra, I am not sure what I should be apologizing for. You made certain statements and I just summarized what you said. Now if you look at what I said, it isn't at all different from what you have said in your post. I just didn't try to sugarcoat it or anything.

I've got a few more for you.

Black men have larger penises (on average) than do caucasian or asian men.

Asian men are more flexible (on average) than caucasian or black men.

Caucasian men are more likely to perform DATY (on average) than asian or black men.

...

So are the above stereotypes offensive and irritating, or are they grounded in truth? I believe the later.

Kiarra made some observations based on her experiences, and the experiences of others she knows in the business. In response you slammed her (the tone in your post was clear, you were pissed).

I'm sure that your response was borne out of your life experiences and was a genuine response to something that was painful for you. I've got no problem with that. But I don't reckon its fair to level your hurt at Kiarra.

I'm not looking for flame war Dr 69, - don't really have the energy, (and I'm sure you're a good guy and all) but it's nice when sp's post, and it'd be a shame if she stopped 'cause she felt she was getting flamed for her efforts.

And just like you, I didn't sugarcoat it.

fj

 

[Don]

Asian men “try to shot as many times as possible.” Most SP’s expect with a MSOGer that maybe 3 condoms will be used in an hour, Asian men have used and can use maybe even double that.

You gotta be kidding! 6 times in an hour? That's not humanly possible! I'm lucky to get more than one in an hour!

 

[Dr69]

fijiman,

The difference between what you posted and what kiarra posted was that yours could generally be seen as "positive stereotypes". What kiarra posted were negative stereotypes about these ethnic groups. Now, you may ask, why are positive stereotypes ok, but negative stereotypes are not ok? Well, simply because negative stereotypes encourage hatred and discrimination.

Yes, my tone in my response to her was mocking. But, I never mentioned the word "racist". I don't know whether she is a racist or not. That is between herself and her conscience. But, the fact is that by stating these stereotypes she is only serving to further perpetuate them. There may be many readers on this board, both SPs and clients, that are not as enlightened as you or Kiarra. They will read these stereotypes and take it with them, thus further perpetuating these negatives.

Now, someone said that it takes a lot of fortitude to say it like it is. But, I think it takes more fortitude to stop yourself from validating these steretotypes. I know I have been guilty of doing so in the past.

 

[Sasha Jones]

Actually, as an SP for over 5 years now I can't say that I agree with Kiarra's "generalizations". Not to say that they may not have been true in her friends or even her own experiences, I have just never experienced such things myself.

The black men thing was about the closest she got to my own experiences. Black men tend to be very "energetic" in bed, and sometimes even very demanding. Not always a bad thing as long as it is not taken to far. But then again men of all races can be this way!

I have always found Asian men to be a little akward. They (at least many that i have been with) tend to be very quiet while the "fun" is going on. It was so much so that one time I wasn't even sure if he was breathing let alone having a good time. That can be kind of creepy. I have never found or noticed that any Asian men wanted to "shoot" any more than anyone else.

As far as East Indian men go, I have never had one try to barter or lower my rate. I have found that many do have a fascination with the "rear" whether it is an option or not.

Having said that, I would NEVER deny someone a meeting based on race. Infact I usually do not even know their ethnicity until I show up at the door. I could care less what colour your skin is, I am much more interested in your personality and demeanor than I am with your race.
The colour of a persons skin has nothing to do with what kind of person they are in general, and THAT is what is most important.

 

[kromrider]

Its very hard not to be a bit of a racist. While most of us pride ourselves with treating all people equally on the surface its hard not to show preference to some one based on race. Especially in this business. I like to have sex with thin middle eastern girls. If I have to choose from ten different girls I would pick the middle eastern girl every time. Does this make me a racist?

 

[Kathy P]

Racism

We all have our biases, true. However, when you make a decision or an evaluation of someone based on the colour of their skin or their ethnicity or culture or judge people based on their membership in such a group or community, FOR WHATEVER REASON, that is the essence of racism. You can sugarcoat it however you want. It still is racist and, in my view, a wholly unacceptable criteria for determining whether or not you want to spend time with someone.

I find it interesting that no one has mentioned the reverse. Maybe 30% of the time, clients will ask me the conspicuous question "where are you from? what's your ethnic background?" I usually see this as a means of illiciting the answer to whether or not I'm white. There is discrimination on the part of clients towards sp's. I have had a number of Italian/Greek & Portuguese clients tell me they wouldn't see me if I was black. I find that offensive. Apparently, it isn't uncommon. A former employer of mine told me that, contrary to someone's earlier post, that black ladies working in this business do have a more difficult time getting bookings. A friend of mine, who is black, used to tell clients she was Brazilian, ostensibly to give the impression that she was Spanish, not black. When she arrived for the call, the clients would see that clearly she is a beautiful, physically fit woman and would want her to stay regardless of the obvious lie about her race. I just find it sad that she had to lie in the first place to get the bookings.

 

[Kathy P]

Addendum

An addition thought that I forgot: Kiarra, while purportedly "telling-it-like-it-is" can be rationalized as just being truthful, it still doesn't make it right. By subscribing to these views or repeating them you are validating them. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. More damage is done when good men (women) are indifferent. Racism hurts irregardless of what you call it.

 

[fijiman]

Re: Racism

We all have our biases, true. However, when you make a decision or an evaluation of someone based on the colour of their skin or their ethnicity or culture or judge people based on their membership in such a group or community, FOR WHATEVER REASON, that is the essence of racism. You can sugarcoat it however you want. It still is racist and, in my view, a wholly unacceptable criteria for determining whether or not you want to spend time with someone.

I don't know, Kathy.

Sounds to me you're saying that appearance shouldn't matter. A bit of a strange position given the nature of the board.

You use the word "bias". How does that differ from "preference"?

 

[Goober Mcfly]

I like pie.