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Quit or submit?

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fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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My turn to ask for advice in the most inappropriate forum on the internet and without giving anyone enough details to really make a good call:

My job is changing significantly due to a re-org. Pay will be the same but I will be less influential, and less able to do the things I really love doing--and working in an area of the business that is new to me (ie: that I'm less skilled at). For greater clarity, these are management roles and I've been working here about three years now. I see the change as a bit of a step down. There are possibilities to step up again later, but I've certainly lost something in the most recent shuffle. I think in a way I've been sidelined and it's depressing me. An optomist might say chance to learn something new, which it is, but I'm also being shut out of something I do well.

On the plus side I love the people I work with, it's a great company, and I enjoy going to work partly because of the people. I also earn about 20% more than I'd be able to get elsewhere. I know because I did a job search--I'd take about a 20% pay cut based on the other opportunities I found over the past few weeks. For historical reasons I'm paid probably more than I should be at this firm.

On the other hand if I left I'd probably eventually find a company where I'd be able to take on more responsibility, and do the stuff I love doing... probably not with people I like as much. Presumably I'd eventually work back up to the same pay level--say, maybe, two or three years from now.

(Queue clash tunes): So do I stay or do I go now?
 
Making decisions is a pretty lonely business.

But seriously, shouldn't your question be in the form of a poll?? :p

jwm
 
fuji said:
--and working in an area of the business that is new to me (ie: that I'm less skilled at). For greater clarity, these are management roles and I've been working here about three years now. I see the change as a bit of a step down. There are possibilities to step up again later, but I've certainly lost something in the most recent shuffle. I think in a way I've been sidelined and it's depressing me. An optomist might say chance to learn something new, which it is, but I'm also being shut out of something I do well.

So do I stay or do I go now?
Click to expand...

You said it yourself.

1. An optomist might say chance to learn something new. This is an opportunity to expand your skillsets and prove to the management that you are flexible to change and quick on the rebound.

2. "but I'm also being shut out of something I do well" - That's just your comfort zone talking. If this is what you have been doing all your life, then you will be good. But can you say with some degree of confidence that you are the best the company has?

Accept the change and roll with it my friend, 'coz change is alwaz good. All da best.
 
Lets get to the basics. Your ego/self esteem has been damaged in these changes.
If your ambitious, then this will slowly eat away at you over time and make you frustrated. Therefore leave, and join a company where you will be held in higher regard.
Alternatively, if your ego is not hurt then stay, because you you deserved the demotion.
 
I would consider age (how old are you?), family (married, children, how old?), current financial situation (own home, rent, etc?) and so on. If you are single, fairly young, then go for it. If you are married, with children going to school, and financially dependent, then you may not want to risk it.
 
Koolguy makes a great point(s).

Just because you might be doing something that you can't already do well, doesn't mean you won't be able to excel at the new stuff. I mean hell, I've changed my profession totally umm 6 times over my life and I wouldn't change a thing....

It also sounds to me like you were just "cruising" along in the old position. Maybe look at this as a challenge? One needs challenges in their life to make it interesting. What's that saying? do one thing every day that scares you?

Another point is you say you really enjoy the people etc that you work with. It is far more difficult to find a good team than a good job. Who you work with can make or break you. I know, I've worked with some idiots and when you hate your co-workers, your job is infinitely more painful.

IMO stick with it. Show the upper ups that you're man enough to accept the "slap in the face" and work with the cards you're dealt.

BTW: your post sounds like you've been humbled a bit compared to the arrogance displayed previously. Maybe this is a good thing?
 
I'm still an arrogant bastard :) It's demoralizing for sure, though.

What's made me feel a bit better in the last while is getting a couple of offers I declined. They were for less money, though--that's historical. I entered this firm by acquisition, co-founding a much smaller firm this one acquired, and as a result came in with more pay than others here who do the same thing. A job elsewhere is going to pay me the going rate, obviously, whereas I get a premium now. That said a 20% lower salary at my tax bracket is only going to be 10% less cash in my pocket. Still, everyone loves cash.

Essentially I got into managing by rising through the ranks in a particular functional area, eventually running a team. Now I'm being switched to a role which does not even have a functional area. I will lose my direct reports, and instead be responsible for a set of budgets and processes. Much more administrative, monitoring/communication oriented, far less hands on.

My big fear is that what I've done until now is rare: Few people have the hands-on skill I do. What I'm moving towards is significantly less rare--anyone with a bit of business experience can manage a budget and a process.

I also have this gut instinct that the career development with the larger eventual pay packets are the ones that have direct reports. Maybe that's wrong.
 
If you really want a challenge and an opportunity to do "your thing" start your own business.
 
A no brainer question

Fuji,

Here's a hearty pat on your back. Stick...with...your...current...job. Why? Well, you are receiving a 20% premium above market for your skill set. You like working with the people you have. The only pet peeve is that your responsibilities has diminished. That 20% premium you getting sure helps in creating memories with all the lucky ladies you been visiting. Moreover, you can spend that 20% premium on a nice tailor jacket (saville row? :) ). Until your boss actually looks you in the eyes and say, "We are overpaying you. Take a pay cut now or a pink slip." I don't see the point of you leaving at the moment over diminished responsibilities unless you sense you will be fired shortly before christmas.
 
m91us said:
Fuji,

Here's a hearty pat on your back. Stick...with...your...current...job. Why? Well, you are receiving a 20% premium above market for your skill set. You like working with the people you have. The only pet peeve is that your responsibilities has diminished. That 20% premium you getting sure helps in creating memories with all the lucky ladies you been visiting. Moreover, you can spend that 20% premium on a nice tailor jacket (saville row? :) ). Until your boss actually looks you in the eyes and say, "We are overpaying you. Take a pay cut now or a pink slip." I don't see the point of you leaving at the moment over diminished responsibilities unless you sense you will be fired shortly before christmas.
Click to expand...

Humm...Money is good, of course, but going from a position that allows you to operate your own team, to one that is "process" driven, would drive many of us crazy.
I assume, before your start-up was "aquired" fuji, you had a hand in most aspects of daily company life.
This sort of job, is not for the faint of heart, but I can understand your position.
How about speaking with the higher-ups and see if you can retain some of your earlier duties? ( You are smart cookie, fuji I know, so you probably thought of this already)
How about a new-start up?
 
My guess is that they have you in their sights.

1. They know you are overpaid for your role, so they figure by giving you the gears that you will do THEM a favour and quit on your own accord, thus avoiding them having to pay you a severence.

or..

2. They are hoping to demoralize you so that you give them reason to fire you and again, no severence required when terminated with cause.

Their next step will probably be to have you to report to a moron who you can not only out think, but you have no respect for. This will further serve to demoralize you. As your moral drops, your performance naturally follows. Beware the BS annual review where they start to make their case against you.

They could even be alreadly looking for your (cheaper) replacement and figure that they don't want throw a spanner in the works just now, so keep you dumb, keep you stupid, and keep you working till the time is right for them to lower the boom on you.

My advice would be quite simple. Don't quit.

YET.

Start looking for a better job, but keep working where you are now to keep the money coming in and so you are not desperate. You start sending out feelers, sending in resumes, keeping an ear to the ground. Eventually, something with either definite better possibilities or at least the same cash and a new begining will come up.

When that happens, you leave on YOUR terms and not theirs.

Or, if you are really good, you figure a way to get them to fire you and give you a severance and then start the new job 2 weeks later.

I dunno about the odds of clawing your way back in this place. Sounds to me that they are sending you a message as to where you stand with them.
 
Last edited:
Thevagabond said:
Life's too short. Stay.
Click to expand...
Ditto. Nothing says you can't continue looking if the new position isn't right for you... It's also possible you;re being set-up to "fail"... resulting in your being terminated or you quitting. But since you describe your employer as a good company, that isn't likely the case.

Arguably, you might have a case for wrongful dismissal. Perhaps something to keep in your back pocket for the time being...
 
Leave

Most of the recent advice is to take the cash and accept the reduction in the pride you take in your work, and in your job satisfaction. To me that sounds like Union advice - do the least amount of work for the most amount of money; wait for the company to screw up so you can enter litigation and get more money, don't be a risk taker.

fuji, you don't come across as the kind of person who lives or works like that. I get the sense you are a dynamic and energetic leader at work. Not a bitter complainer. You were a team leader who worked your way to the top. The overall personal and professional satisfaction (and the mental and health benefits that accrue from that) that you will get out of doing your job well in an organization that values what you bring to the table, vastly outweighs a 10% reduction in salary.
 
Money and people you work with are valuable. On the other hand, so is enjoying what you do and being treated with respect. My advice is stay for now, but look more actively for other opportunities. By now doing a more generic job function, you may open up opportunities that previously would not have been possible.
 
C Dick said:
Money and people you work with are valuable. On the other hand, so is enjoying what you do and being treated with respect. My advice is stay for now, but look more actively for other opportunities. By now doing a more generic job function, you may open up opportunities that previously would not have been possible.
Click to expand...
Make a similiar choice with the last job. The job satisfaction part is steadily improving. JTK is right, they've hoping you quit. If you can holdout till next reorg.
 
Fuji,
You said you co-founded one of the smaller firms that eventually were bought out, thus the premium pay you are currently getting, so you've been through the entrepreneurial process and know how it is to be in the trenches and making important decisions on the business and how addictive it can be. So unless you are, say, within 10 years of your retirement goal, I'd say start looking and take the first good 20% pay cut to do something you would enjoy. Sounds like too early for you to cruise yet!
Good luck
 
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