borg007 said:
This war was and is about oil revenues and not protection of innocents.
Why should the world contribute to the reconstruction of Iraq. I think the Americans created the mess and problems they should be left to clean up their own mess.
Punish the liberals
- Thread starter borg007
- Start date
This war was and is about oil revenues and not protection of innocents.
Why should the world contribute to the reconstruction of Iraq. I think the Americans created the mess and problems they should be left to clean up their own mess.
Getting back to the original point, punishing the federal Liberals for the stupidity of the provincal Liberals is childish at best. The situation in Ontario will get *far* worse than it is now if anything but a Liberal government is elected at the federal level (do you seriously see Harper helping Dalton out of his mess?).
If you want to punish the Fed Libs for the scandal that would've happened regardless of who was in power (let's not kid ourselves that *any* party in power plays to their supporters), then do that. Don't muddle it all with revenge fantasies that will end up hurting you more.
Stick to relevant facts, people. Use the brain God (or Darwin) gave you.
PAL
If you want to punish the Fed Libs for the scandal that would've happened regardless of who was in power (let's not kid ourselves that *any* party in power plays to their supporters), then do that. Don't muddle it all with revenge fantasies that will end up hurting you more.
Stick to relevant facts, people. Use the brain God (or Darwin) gave you.
PAL
Interesting how your silly little mind equates any criticism of Harris' mistakes as somehow being support for (or defence of) Liberal mistakes.borg007 said:So I guess your saying that Harris spends good money after bad for stupid causes.
Oh and what is the issue with the hydro consultants. What about the issue with the gun registry? Why don’t you bring that up? Tell us was it within the budget? Did it reduce gun crime? Who knows maybe it did. All those law abiding citizens that register their guns are now to afraid to go out an commit crimes. I guess we are better off.
Oh and what about the sponsorship scandal? Are you in favour of that just because the Libral are behind it. Why don’t you tell us how many schools that wasted money could have built? Why don’t you tell us the kinds of social programs that could have been put in place with that money. How may children would be able to receive a free meal at school with that kind of funding? I’m not sure would you care to comment.
Do these things mean the Liberals are as bad as old man Harris? I don’t know why don’t you tell us? We love to hear your take on the matter.
Sleazy politicians love people like you, because you'd rather hyperventilate about how bad "the other guy" is than hold all politicians accountable for mistakes/lies/etc.
borg007 said:
This is no different from what has happened in Iraq. Had the terrorists formed an alliance with Saddam and killed a couple of thousand Americans by using chemical weapons supplied by Saddam then the world would have seen this as a just was would it not?
Don't forget who supplied Saddam with the chemical weapons and who put him in place in the first place.
borg007 said:We are not talking about good paying jobs or bad paying jobs we are talking about people not wanting to work. You do the math. $600 per month on welfare or $1080 a month ($6 an hour 40 hours per week approximately 4.5 weeks in a month) which is better I’d take the 1080 a month. Problem is may people with few financial obligations would rather stay at home and watch TV them work for minimum wages.
How do you know this?
I repeat when Harris & Co. did the studies they could not find the major problems that Harris campainged on.
Right on!Pallydin said:Getting back to the original point, punishing the federal Liberals for the stupidity of the provincal Liberals is childish at best. The situation in Ontario will get *far* worse than it is now if anything but a Liberal government is elected at the federal level (do you seriously see Harper helping Dalton out of his mess?).
If you want to punish the Fed Libs for the scandal that would've happened regardless of who was in power (let's not kid ourselves that *any* party in power plays to their supporters), then do that. Don't muddle it all with revenge fantasies that will end up hurting you more.
Stick to relevant facts, people. Use the brain God (or Darwin) gave you.
PAL
To often we often fail to look forward to how to fix problems.
We should stop looking at past mistakes and figure out how to fix the future for ourselves and our children. for my 2 cents worth I would like to get rid of the bulk of the provincial and national debt to get out to the massive debt payments.
guelph said:Do you like secrect deals to benefit the few?
Like Adscam for example.....
Bingo ! Guelph seems only to notice the errors of one party doesn't he . While I hope I would never be as insulting or as condescending as Shake in his criticisim of Borg I have to agree with his basic point that blind party politics such as been displayed here tends to serve no real purpose . The truth of the matter is that for the last 5 or 6 years the federal liberals have done a poor job in many areas and deserve to be fired . Whether one feels there are attractive alternatives or not ........well that may be a problem .Quest4Less said:Like Adscam for example.....
Consider ( and please this is just an example ) that the gun registry waste nearly equates in dollar terms to the health care injection proposed by McSquinty . I wonder where most people would have spent the billion and a half or whatever this debacle is up to now .
That of course is just one example and there are many others such as endless consultants/cronies ( provincial PC's ), adscam etc etc . If voters do not make them accountable every single time they abuse their positions then we can expect more of the same and have no one to blame but ourselves .
Who was the defense minister at the time ?The Shake said:Gallant is a lovely MP best known for shouting "Where's your boyfriend" to our then Defence Minister as he gave a speech in the House of Commons.
It was Foriegn Affairs Minister Bill Graham. The Defence Minister tag was an error on my part.gladheateher said:Who was the defense minister at the time ?
train said:Bingo ! Guelph seems only to notice the errors of one party doesn't he.
There are two threads bashing the liberals and when I respond I'm accused of being one sided.
Really now?? and where did you read or hear this,the pro Liberal,anti American CBC,or the "Liberal Party News" also known as The Toronto Star??guelph said:As opposed to the people who would involve us in an unjust war
and would gut our social programs
make cosy deals with their friends and supporters.
The reason being that there were timely events which gave rise to these threads .guelph said:There are two threads bashing the liberals and when I respond I'm accused of being one sided.
Bringing up what amounts to tired old anti-right wing drivel does not really defend the liberal party either Federally or Provincially or their recent actions . In fact I'm not sure that wild speculation about the potential foreign policies of Harper has the slightest relevence to any of the discussions at hand .
Your criticism of conservatives as your only means of defense of liberals ( the old "ya but they have to be better than the alternative " defense ) appears extremely weak if not blindly one-sided .
PS . As for cosy deals with friends and supporters I believe the federal liberal party has just rewritten the manuals on this . The provincial party is innocent as far as we know but they appear to be a bit of a "slow" group and we may just have to wait a bit .
Can you show any liberal deal that matches the Conservative attempted sale of Pearson Airport?train said:The reason being that there were timely events which gave rise to these threads .
As for cosy deals with friends and supporters I believe the federal liberal party has just rewritten the manuals on this . The provincial party is innocent as far as we know but they appear to be a bit of a "slow" group and we may just have to wait a bit .
The appointment of the executive and board of Ontario Hydro?
guelph said:
Originally posted by borg007
We are not talking about good paying jobs or bad paying jobs we are talking about people not wanting to work. You do the math. $600 per month on welfare or $1080 a month ($6 an hour 40 hours per week approximately 4.5 weeks in a month) which is better I’d take the 1080 a month. Problem is may people with few financial obligations would rather stay at home and watch TV them work for minimum wages.
How do you know this?
I repeat when Harris & Co. did the studies they could not find the major problems that Harris campainged on.
Didn't you read the post I wote just before this one. I'll repost it so you can see. (for the full post go to page # 2)
Don’t believe me. I know a person who graduated during the Ray days and chose to go on welfare rather then get a job as a teacher. Her rationale was between the money she made selling home made crafts (tax free she wasn’t going to be supporting any social programs) and the money she made on welfare she was better off. Did she make more than working as a teacher, no but she has a lot more free time to enjoy life. Shortly after Harris cut her “ paycheck” she got a job at a law firm.
For God's sake guelph, all the parties have been doing this for years. It's called PATRONAGE! It's not right but they ALL do it.guelph said:Can you show any liberal deal that matches the Conservative attempted sale of Pearson Airport?
The appointment of the executive and board of Ontario Hydro?
No my silly little mind did not equate criticism of Harris' mistakes as somehow being support for (or defence of) Liberal mistakes.The Shake said:Interesting how your silly little mind equates any criticism of Harris' mistakes as somehow being support for (or defence of) Liberal mistakes.
Had you read all my posts as well as Guelph’s you would have seen that I was simply trying to prove that guelph is being one sided. Here we are venting about how Dalton lied and screwed us over and this guy tries to hijack the tread to a Mike Harris bashing session, as if the liberals are saints.
I then posted, what you have quoted at the beginning of your post, in an attempt to get guelph’s opinion on these matters while simultaneously proving that he is somewhat one sided. Unfortunately Guelph has not yet made his opinion clear on the questions I asked which further suggests he is indeed very bias in this matter.
As for my one sidedness, it is true that I am somewhat bias in favour of the conservatives but that does not stop me from acknowledging their mistakes or if need be even voting for a different party, if at the time of the elections the conservative party is not worth my vote.
Point of this thread, and that nobody can dispute is that Dalton lied. He promised not to lower our taxes but no to raise them either. He lied and no mater how much you blind liberal follower try to deflect attention from Daltons lies to what Harris did you can not!
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Sleazy politicians love people like you, because you'd rather hyperventilate about how bad "the other guy" is than hold all politicians accountable for mistakes/lies/etc. [/B]
Funny you should accuse me of this because that is exactly what guelph is doing not me!
He is the one hyperventilating about how bad Harris was rather then hold all politicians accountable for their mistakes. On this thread we were talking about Dalton’s mistakes more precisely his lie and not about Harris' previous governemnt.
Let me remind you that Dalton put down in writing that he would not lower taxes but not raise the either. Say what you will this is lying.
Maybe next time before you go out and blindly accuses people of hyperventilating and having silly little minds you should read the post more carefully. Otherwise it just seems like you are blindly supporting like minded people rather then using you true mental capacity to evaluate what has been said.
You're two sides of the same coin and, as I said, politicians love Tools™ like you guys, because you treat politics as some tribal rah-rah-rah bullshit rather than something that requires sober analysis and thought.borg007 said:Funny you should accuse me of this because that is exactly what guelph is doing not me!
