Prisoner Exchange Begins - Israel has some explaining to do

[gryfin]

It turns out the two Israeli soldiers were dead. The question that has to be answered now is why Israel went on a murderous rampage against civilians in the Second Lebanon War when they were dead. The case for war crimes against Israel is now stronger.

It's incumbent upon Israel to start providing complete disclosure on the millions of cluster bombs it dropped on Lebanon and fund the endeavor to remove them.

This quote sums it up:

"It's regarded as being the final chapter of the 2006 war," journalist Robert Fisk, a Middle East expert, told Al Jazeera.

"The Israelis certainly lost that war, they did not get their prisoners back - not until now and they're getting them back dead. So more than 1,000 Lebanese civilians and more than 160 Israelis, most of them soldiers, all died for absolutely nothing and that's what today's prisoner exchanges prove."

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/07/200871665153469813.html

BTW..what's rarely reported is that Hezbollah demanded and Israel agreed to return the bodies (and parts) of 199 Palestinians and Lebanese that they've been holding on to for years.

 

[TQM]

you fucking racist piece of shit.

Hezbollah, unprovoked, and without any legitimacy being a totally unelected body, sends militia into Israel to kill Israeli soldiers on Israeli soil, and takes two soldiers who may or may not have been dead to use them as bargaining chips (which part of this story isn't either a war crime or a crime against humanity?) and you think Israel has some explaining to do?

You fucking racist piece of shit.

 

[onthebottom]

Apparently two dead Israelis have just been marked to market..... doesn't look good for the value of people on the other side.

What again gryfin was the reason to kidnap and kill these solders?

OTB

 

[gryfin]

Apparently two dead Israelis have just been marked to market..... doesn't look good for the value of people on the other side.

What again gryfin was the reason to kidnap and kill these solders?

OTB

Probably to get back the imprisoned Lebanese and the hundreds of dead Lebanese and Palestinians that Israel was hanging on to for years. Doesn't look good for the value Israel puts on people when they ship bodies across borders so they can hang on to them rather than leaving dead Lebanese in Lebanon. Israel is quite macabre.

What again was the reason for killing 1000 Lebanese civilians?

 

[skypilot]

What again was the reason for killing 1000 Lebanese civilians?

Because they couldn't kill 2000. I think Israel should make sure the people they released wind up like two soldiers.

 

[TQM]

The reasons Lebanese

civilians got killed was because Hezbollah initiated an act of outright war, and then hid amongst those civilians, as they continued to engage in indiscriminate firings of missiles onto Israeli civilians.

So - gryfwad - tell us what you think of Samir Kuntar - is he your hero?

 

[gryfin]

civilians got killed was because Hezbollah initiated an act of outright war, and then hid amongst those civilians, as they continued to engage in indiscriminate firings of missiles onto Israeli civilians.

So - gryfwad - tell us what you think of Samir Kuntar - is he your hero?

You seem to forget that Human Rights Watch said there was no instance where civilians were killed when Hezbollah was nearby.

Whatever you may think of Samir Kuntar, he's a slacker compared to the slaughter by the IDF of women and children in Lebanon. Add to that the number of Lebanese kids who've had their legs and hands blown off by Israel's sadistic cluster bomb party in the last two days of the butt kicking that Israel received in Lebanon.

As to this act of war routine, don't be such a naive drama queen. Israel's been kidnapping Lebanese and bringing them back to Israel for decades.

 

[TQM]

I asked you what you think of Kuntar

not what I thought.

And I didn't claim Israeli attacks happened when Hezbollah were nearby.

I claimed they hid amongst civilians - they'd launch a missile attack and then quickly blend in with the civilians. That was their basic tactic throughout the war.

 

[TQM]

and don't make up things about hrw

Hezbollah at times violated the laws of war in its deployment of forces in Lebanon. It also frequently violated the laws of war in its rocket attacks on Israel, which is the subject of a separate Human Rights Watch report, Civilians under Assault. On some occasions, our research shows, Hezbollah fired rockets from within populated areas, allowed its combatants to mix with the Lebanese civilian population, or stored weapons in populated civilian areas in ways that violated international humanitarian law.

http://hrw.org/reports/2007/lebanon0907/3.htm

You are such a fucking racist.

 

[gryfin]

Hezbollah at times violated the laws of war in its deployment of forces in Lebanon. It also frequently violated the laws of war in its rocket attacks on Israel, which is the subject of a separate Human Rights Watch report, Civilians under Assault. On some occasions, our research shows, Hezbollah fired rockets from within populated areas, allowed its combatants to mix with the Lebanese civilian population, or stored weapons in populated civilian areas in ways that violated international humanitarian law.

http://hrw.org/reports/2007/lebanon0907/3.htm

You are such a fucking racist.

In other words, I'm right.

 

[gryfin]

not what I thought.

And I didn't claim Israeli attacks happened when Hezbollah were nearby.

I claimed they hid amongst civilians - they'd launch a missile attack and then quickly blend in with the civilians. That was their basic tactic throughout the war.

It's called guerrilla warfare. Try reading about it. I know you'd like them to walk around with a big X on their backs, but c'mon...grow up.

Israel has been sending it's soldiers into Gaza, the West Bank, and probably Lebanon dressed as civilians (in some cases as women) for decades.

 

[shmeis007]

It turns out the two Israeli soldiers were dead. The question that has to be answered now is why Israel went on a murderous rampage against civilians in the Second Lebanon War when they were dead. The case for war crimes against Israel is now stronger.

It's incumbent upon Israel to start providing complete disclosure on the millions of cluster bombs it dropped on Lebanon and fund the endeavor to remove them.

This quote sums it up:

"It's regarded as being the final chapter of the 2006 war," journalist Robert Fisk, a Middle East expert, told Al Jazeera.

"The Israelis certainly lost that war, they did not get their prisoners back - not until now and they're getting them back dead. So more than 1,000 Lebanese civilians and more than 160 Israelis, most of them soldiers, all died for absolutely nothing and that's what today's prisoner exchanges prove."

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/07/200871665153469813.html

BTW..what's rarely reported is that Hezbollah demanded and Israel agreed to return the bodies (and parts) of 199 Palestinians and Lebanese that they've been holding on to for years.

So why does Israel have some explaining to do?

 

[gryfin]

So why does Israel have some explaining to do?

Israel needs to come clean about when they knew these soldiers were dead. That they were alive was the whole pretext of the massive onslaught against Lebanese civilians and infrastructure.

That was Israel's stated reason, although the connection between rescuing a couple of soldiers and laying waste to a 1000 civilians, including attacking refugee convoys and ambulances is almost impossible to make in any rational way.

 

[shmeis007]

although the connection between rescuing a couple of soldiers and laying waste to a 1000 civilians, including attacking refugee convoys and ambulances is almost impossible to make in any rational way.

Not when you are the only democracy in the middle east and all your neighbours want you gone.

 

[gryfin]

Not when you are the only democracy in the middle east and all your neighbours want you gone.

With a "democracy" like Israel, who needs dictatorships?

 

[onthebottom]

Probably to get back the imprisoned Lebanese and the hundreds of dead Lebanese and Palestinians that Israel was hanging on to for years. Doesn't look good for the value Israel puts on people when they ship bodies across borders so they can hang on to them rather than leaving dead Lebanese in Lebanon. Israel is quite macabre.

What again was the reason for killing 1000 Lebanese civilians?

This is why I think we should take our Billions and just tell both sides to go fuck themselves (as they are already doing) and go home.

OTB

 

[basketcase]

Israel needs to come clean about when they knew these soldiers were dead. That they were alive was the whole pretext of the massive onslaught against Lebanese civilians and infrastructure.
...

There was a great deal of evidence (including hezbollah affiliated news agencies - and your own damn source) that at least one of them was captured alive though likely injured. Hezbollah knew they had Israel on the hook and lied continually about their state of being. Only through lack of evidence did Israel start to believe that they were dead. Hezbollah was dirty dealing on this.

They were also dirty dealing on Ron Arad (who was also alive when captured) when they refused to release information like they were supposed to. Even the German mediator found the information they released unacceptable under the deal.

(on the other hand, Israel kept Kuntar safe and healthy despite his disgusting crimes - he crossed a border with the intent to kill and crushed a 4 year old girl's skull with his hands, there is no way that can be justified as a legitimate target, collateral damage, or even an accident)

Hezbollah showed once again that they are scum, just like the child murderer that they got released and is now celebrated as a national hero. The only reason they have any power is because Lebanon treats the Shia and Palestinians worse than animals.

 

[TQM]

fucking racist,

The HRW was clear - Hezbollah militia hid amongst civilians. That's a war crime.

Civilians died because of this tactic.

And "guerilla" warfare is a war crime.

 

[basketcase]

It is pretty disgusting that Gryfin takes Hezbollah's lies, murders, instigation, and freeing of child killers and tries to spin it to blame Israel.

 

[TQM]

you know, basketcase,

Israel has a lot to account for.

The HRW report I cite is severely critical of both Hezbollah and Israel - and rightly so. I'll be the first to argue that the Israeli strategies with regard to the Palestinians and also with regard to Lebanon have been pretty much a complete failure. I'll be the first to argue that nationhood should never be decided by religion or ethnicity.

But I won't tolerate racism or ethnic hatred - whether it be against Jews or Muslims or anyone else - ever.