Possible crackdown on incalls

Questor

New member
Sep 15, 2001
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There is a private members bill that has passed second reading at Queens Park which seems to lump in prostitution and crack houses. The bill, if passed, would make it easier for police to shut down incall locations. Personally, I don't see what the big deal is about living next door to an incall. As long as the operation is discreet, no excessive noise, or rude people loitering, what is the problem? Now living next door to a crack house? That is entirely different matter. But my point is, I hope this does not lead to a crack down on incalls. If it isn't going to be legalized or decriminalized, then they at the very least should be allowed to continue flying under the police radar.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/11/26/crack-house-bill963.html


Crack house bill debated
Last Updated: Thursday, November 26, 2009 | 10:59 AM ET Comments38Recommend21
CBC News

The Ontario legislature is debating a private member's bill designed to help shut down crack houses and brothels.

The proposed safer communities and neighbourhood act lowers the burden of proof required for the courts to act against drug dealing or running a brothel.

Neighbours would be able to give anonymous testimony, and if a judge is persuaded that a property is most likely being used for crime, the occupants could be evicted. A judge would also be able close a property for up to 90 days.


"Innocent people are being targeted by those who are engaged in illicit drug trade and … the sole purpose behind this legislation is to ensure that we protect the vulnerable," said the author of the bill, Liberal Yasir Naqvi.

The bill passed second reading in October, and is now being considered by a legislative committee.

Cheri DiNovo, the NDP member for Toronto's Parkdale-High Park riding, is vowing to stop the bill, which she says violates tenants' rights and unfairly targets the most vulnerable.
'Criminals don't target rich neighbourhoods'

But Naqvi, who represents the Ottawa Centre riding, disagrees, saying the bill protects the disadvantaged.

"Criminals don't target rich neighbourhoods, they operate in poor neighbourhoods, and those poor people also have the right to live in a safe and healthy community and that's what this legislation is trying to do," he said.

Patricia Gora lives on a street with a reputed crack house in DiNovo's Parkdale riding.

"If there's a supposed crack house here and those people are found and they're thrown out of their homes, well, where will they go next?" she said.

Else-Marie Knudsen, a spokeswoman for the John Howard Society of Toronto, a group that advocates for the rights of those in trouble with the law, dismisses the bill as being ineffective at preventing crime.

"The crime is simply displaced. It moves on to another street, another neighbourhood, another community, for someone else to deal with," she said.

Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta already have similar laws. Supporters of the bill in Manitoba have credited it with cleaning up parts of Winnipeg.
 
Just one more thing to waste time and money on. Leave the honest hos alone!

You are preaching to the converted here on TERB. You have to tell this to the "White Man" (Blair, Miller, McGuinty and Harper). Do like that Bacock lady. Go tell them girl.
 
I was in Starbucks yesterday morning and in walks David Miller. He was right behind me and ordered the same drink. We mused for a moment about the holiday beverage and then I said, "okay, nice talking with you-off to do my good duties as the neighborhood ho."

Mayor Miller is supposed to be fairly liberal minded on matters sexual. Marches in the Gay Pride parade every year. To be fair, Chief Bill Blair has his priorities straight (or gay) as well. He said his officers' number one priority is public safety (not consensual adult sex). The "White Man" that worries me is Stephen Harper, never trust him with a majority.
 
Mayor Miller is supposed to be fairly liberal minded on matters sexual. Marches in the Gay Pride parade every year. To be fair, Chief Bill Blair has his priorities straight (or gay) as well. He said his officers' number one priority is public safety (not consensual adult sex). The "White Man" that worries me is Stephen Harper, never trust him with a majority.
Don't kid yourself Rock, Politicians march in the Gay Pride Parade because it is a great photo-op... ;)
 
I wonder if some are forgetting that not every SP is in an upscale condo and operating with discretion.

There are some who are much more, excuse the expression, fly-by-night.

I don't agree with the anonymous testimony, though: let the Police do their job properly and protect those who testify, and make the courts do their job and put the drug dealers away in the interests of protecting society.
 
I hope this does not lead to a crack down on incalls. If it isn't going to be legalized or decriminalized, then they at the very least should be allowed to continue flying under the police radar.

Police are cracking down on incalls because they exist. In every neighbourhood. On every street. Fines are a new source of municipal revenue.

"If there's a supposed crack house here and those people are found and they're thrown out of their homes, well, where will they go next?" she said.
Here's the answer:
let the Police do their job properly and protect those who testify, and make the courts do their job and put the drug dealers away in the interests of protecting society.


Aren't incalls illegal anyways though? I thought only outcalls were legal
Incalls are illegal. Common Bawdy House legislation applies. Outcalls are completely legal.

This will be interesting. Most incalls that I have been in are not in "poor areas" as suggested by this article. Rather in highend condo buildings and such. Not exactly the place you find a "crackhouse".
My experience is I have seen them on every street and eevery kind of neighbourhood. Few exceptions.

In Starbucks yesterday morning ...David Miller ... right behind me... and then I said, "okay, nice talking with you-off to do my good duties as the neighborhood ho." He didn't respond
Oh no you didn't :eek:
 
Police are cracking down on incalls because they exist. In every neighbourhood. On every street. Fines are a new source of municipal revenue.
I don't think this is the case. We'd be hearing about bust after bust here on terb if it was happening. Agencies like Roommates, Mirage, etc operate fairly discreetly and the police do not bother them. But if the police care to bust them and close them down, they'd be doing it without too much trouble.
 
I don't think this is the case. We'd be hearing about bust after bust here on terb if it was happening. Agencies like Roommates, Mirage, etc operate fairly discreetly and the police do not bother them. But if the police care to bust them and close them down, they'd be doing it without too much trouble.

A wave of charges and arrests will follow this bit of news.
 
"Criminals don't target rich neighbourhoods"
WTF? Rich people have the good shit! expensive jewelery, silver, high end electronics. Ok so crackheads may not be setting up shop in the shiny part of town but, criminals with any brain cells know, those with money, have more for them to steal.

I know this may go against the grain on TERB, but a crackdown especially on the lower rent incalls might be a good thing, might help to stem the bait and switch and sketchy operations. I agree, "leave the honest hos alone!" but do something about the dishonest ones.
 
Neighbours would be able to give anonymous testimony, and if a judge is persuaded that a property is most likely being used for crime, the occupants could be evicted. A judge would also be able close a property for up to 90 days.

This is where it gets sketchy... I can see the desire to keep people out of harm's way, but this could also lead to 'rent-a-snitch' scenarios (especially in poorer areas) and there are already ways to anonymously report tips to the police. Anonymous tipping to the police is where this should be handled, when it comes to court I worry (from a liberties POV) about anonymous accusers. If you tip to the police and they barge in then it's then in court...
 
I know this may go against the grain on TERB, but a crackdown especially on the lower rent incalls might be a good thing, might help to stem the bait and switch and sketchy operations. I agree, "leave the honest hos alone!" but do something about the dishonest ones.
Well my dear, these "sketchy operations" have real people who undergo the humiliation of arrest and all of its legal consequences when they are busted, SPs and clients alike. Why that would be a good thing for you or anyone else is beyond me. As is why they would be any more deserving of legal harassment than you.
 
NDP Member

Ahh, don't worry about this private member's bill. They seldom pass at the best of times and this one is put forward by an NDP member in a Liberal dominated house.

Really, it's not even worth discussing. It'll never pass. Just a local MPP trying to score a few points with her local constituents. At election time, at least she'll be able to say, "well, I tried."
 
The "White Man" that worries me is Stephen Harper, never trust him with a majority.
Surely I must have misread the CBC News article. I could have sworn that it read that the member who introduced the Safer Communities and Neighbourhood Act was Liberal Yasir Naqvi, member for Ottawa Centre.

That can't possibly be right, surely it must be a Conservative MPP. :rolleyes:
 
Surely I must have misread the CBC News article. I could have sworn that it read that the member who introduced the Safer Communities and Neighbourhood Act was Liberal Yasir Naqvi, member for Ottawa Centre.

That can't possibly be right, surely it must be a Conservative MPP. :rolleyes:

My mistake. You're right. I thought it was Cheri Denovo had ownership of this bill. Ahh, same rules apply. It won't pass - still grandstanding for the constits.
 
Well, I'm a conservative, and I'd rather see Harper in power than a Liberal, sorry, however, I think you may be right on the prostitution issue wrt Harper, but I don't necessarily vote on a single issue.

Good thing that you are a male Reformer and not a female looking for a legal abortion. Once they get their majority crackpots like that MP dude from Sask are going to do their damndest to make abortion if not illegal than almost impossible to get.

Isn't it great to be a male...and a redneck to boot!