PM Harper pockets the "Host" during communion

[Lucky Pierre]

Our Prime Minister is in hot water over pocketing the communion wafer during the funeral mass for Romeo LeBlanc.

http://thestar.blogs.com/politics/2009/07/good-icebreaker-for-conversation-with-the-pope.html

As a catholic, I am not offended by it at all. Who cares? There are much bigger problems in life.

It bothers me far more however as a Canadian that this guy didn't know better. This wasn't just a funeral, this was one that the media was covering and cameras were capturing everything.

If I'm Harper's PR guy, I'm repeatedly bashing my head against my desk. All he had to do was cross his arms (so that his right hand is at his left chest and left hand on his right chest), which is accepted in the catholic church as indicating you want to receive a blessing, but that your own beliefs do not allow you to take the host as you have never received the sacrament of holy communion.

He shoulda known better and saved himself the grief he's going to receive from overzealous catholics.

 

[CapitalGuy]

It is not fair at all to say the offended Catholics are "over-zealous". The host is considered, by Catholics, to be the actual body of Christ, once it has been consecrated by the Priest. The Priest then goes to great (ridiculous, some would say) lengths to protect the body of his Lord. Its serious shit in that world.

You may not believe in all that, and you may feel compelled to ridicule them because of it, however that is their faith, and in this open and inclusive society of ours, we should respect that faith. We as Canadians go to great extremes to accommodate all nature of beliefs and their various idiosyncracies. Why would we not extend that same courtesy to the largest religious denomination in Canada? All we have to do is not go to a Catholic Communion. That's it! Also noteworthy is that the so-called "over-zealous" Catholics are rioting in the streets. Geez, people have the right to verbally express their dissatisfaction, ya know.

Harper's handlers are to blame. They should have told him to stay in his seat when the time came up to go to Communion, if he didn't already know that.

 

[futurelegend]

I'm also Catholic and....who cares? Hard core Catholics also know that you're not actually supposed to take the host in your hand and put it to your own mouth. You are supposed to allow the priest to place it on your tongue.

So he didn't know what to do...big deal.

 

[danmand]

I can understand why Catholics might be upset. What are you going to do now? Toss the Body of Christ in the waste paper basket or worse?

If not, he would have been accused of Cannibalism.

 

[reef]

looks like someone pulled a "george dubya"

 

[Lucky Pierre]

It is not fair at all to say the offended Catholics are "over-zealous". The host is considered, by Catholics, to be the actual body of Christ, once it has been consecrated by the Priest. The Priest then goes to great (ridiculous, some would say) lengths to protect the body of his Lord. Its serious shit in that world.

You may not believe in all that, and you may feel compelled to ridicule them because of it, however that is their faith, and in this open and inclusive society of ours, we should respect that faith. We as Canadians go to great extremes to accommodate all nature of beliefs and their various idiosyncracies. Why would we not extend that same courtesy to the largest religious denomination in Canada? All we have to do is not go to a Catholic Communion. That's it! Also noteworthy is that the so-called "over-zealous" Catholics are rioting in the streets. Geez, people have the right to verbally express their dissatisfaction, ya know.

Harper's handlers are to blame. They should have told him to stay in his seat when the time came up to go to Communion, if he didn't already know that.

My apologies if I offended you, it was not my intention. "Overzealous" may have been a poor choice of words, I meant more that just as it was not my intention to offend, I do not believe it was Harper's either, and so my hope is that Catholics -- of which I am one -- do not, as Shiek said, make a mountain out of a molehill.

There are Catholics, as there are Muslims, Jews, and others of various faiths who are easily offended by the actions, but fail to consider the intent, of people who "violate" the laws of those faiths. As JohnFK said, it was a stupid faux pas, but I just don't think Catholics need to call for Harper to be impeached over this.

 

[CapitalGuy]

My apologies if I offended you, it was not my intention. "Overzealous" may have been a poor choice of words, I meant more that just as it was not my intention to offend, I do not believe it was Harper's either, and so my hope is that Catholics -- of which I am one -- do not, as Shiek said, make a mountain out of a molehill.

There are Catholics, as there are Muslims, Jews, and others of various faiths who are easily offended by the actions, but fail to consider the intent, of people who "violate" the laws of those faiths. As JohnFK said, it was a stupid faux pas, but I just don't think Catholics need to call for Harper to be impeached over this.

No worries mon ami. Catholics should be, if not upset, then cognizant that a faux pas was committed. It is not a violent religion, and they take their lumps in stride. They are right to kick up a bit of a fuss though, as one of the very basic tenets of their faith has been violated.

But if there are Catholics who actually call for Harpo's impeachment over this, then I would suggest that your "overzealous" designation would in fact apply to them.

 

[addicted2whiskey]

Re: Next Federal Election

No worries mon ami. Catholics should be, if not upset, then cognizant that a faux pas was committed. It is not a violent religion, and they take their lumps in stride. They are right to kick up a bit of a fuss though, as one of the very basic tenets of their faith has been violated.

But if there are Catholics who actually call for Harpo's impeachment over this, then I would suggest that your "overzealous" designation would in fact apply to them.

I can't wait until the next Federal Election. In the most recent Federal Election, all Roman Catholic Church Parish Priests in a Toronto Diocese were advised to suggest to their respective congregations that they vote for the Progressive Conservative Party. This was simply because the Liberal Party legalized "gay marriages". I was infuriated over this because the leadership of the Diocese came across as absolute clowns. Gay marriage is simply one issue. Irrespective of what your position is on this one subject voters should make an informed decision by considering a broader range of subjects.

I wonder what this Diocese will do now that Harper disrespected the host (irrespective of whether or not this church was Roman Catholic the symbolism of the host is the same). Should be quite interesting!

A2W

 

[ROGER O. THORNHILL]

A Gesture Speaks Volumes

Actually, it has very little to do with catholic doctrine.

It has everything to do with the fact that Harper lacks completely in the tolerance, sophistication and congeniality that becomes a progressive nation's Head of State.

A gesture like this only shows a very small mind and a lack of understanding of other cultures, values and traditions.

Not PM material, this Harpo Hick.

 

[Lucky Pierre]

Update: Haper spokesman says PM consumed host off camera

Dimitri Soudas, a spokesman for the prime minister, said that Harper "was offered communion, and accepted."

Soudas said he consumed the consecrated host immediately afterwards, within seconds of taking it from the priest, contrary to suggestions a video shows he did not.

"Unfortunately CBC cameras don't stay on the prime minister long enough sometimes," Soudas told reporters in L'Aquila, Italy, where Harper is attending a G8 summit.

"The priest offered communion to the prime minister. He accepted it, and he consumed it."

It's a fine line between spin doctoring/damage control and insulting peoples' intelligence. I think the more prudent way to go would have been a simple apology, say you accepted it, but then were hit with the thought that you shouldn't have accepted it, given that you are not Roman Catholic, so you pocketed it to ask afterwards if you should even be taking it.

That would tell Catholics you made a mistake in accepting, but you felt it would be a far greater sin to consume the host when you shouldn't have, given that he is a Protestant.

Call the priest privately, ask him what the proper thing to do with the host would be, and ask forgiveness for your error in judgement. The media WOULD ask where the wafer is, just simply say you did what the priest suggested you do. The media will try to figure it out, but no one will know for sure. Give it a day or two, and it all goes away.

The "He did consume it, but the camera didn't catch it" argument is very weak and could prolong this.

 

[dcbogey]

As much as I think what Harper did was extremely stupid, What was the priest thinking?

 

[Lucky Pierre]

Actually, it has very little to do with catholic doctrine.

It has everything to do with the fact that Harper lacks completely in the tolerance, sophistication and congeniality that becomes a progressive nation's Head of State.

A gesture like this only shows a very small mind and a lack of understanding of other cultures, values and traditions.

Not PM material, this Harpo Hick.

Exactly, that's why I am far more bothered by this as a Canadian than as a Catholic. In his lengthy political career, this cannot be the first time he was offered the communion at a Catholic funeral. The Prime Minister should be well-versed in how to handle the most basic of situations that can arise during a religious ceremony of any faith.

As much as I think what Harper did was extremely stupid, What was the priest thinking?

I doubt he realized it until he watched the video like everyone else.

 

[dcbogey]

I'm also Catholic and....who cares? Hard core Catholics also know that you're not actually supposed to take the host in your hand and put it to your own mouth. You are supposed to allow the priest to place it on your tongue.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Neverenuff$]

mountain / molehill

molehill/anthill...

and I'd say the same thing for Trudeau Cretian, Martin.. and maybe Dion , but he'd pocket the wine...

Was Iggy there ?

 

[jwmorrice]

It's a wonder Harper didn't take the confessional to be some sort of Catholic toilet.

jwm

 

[dcbogey]

Exactly, that's why I am far more bothered by this as a Canadian than as a Catholic. In his lengthy political career, this cannot be the first time he was offered the communion at a Catholic funeral. The Prime Minister should be well-versed in how to handle the most basic of situations that can arise during a religious ceremony of any faith.



I doubt he realized it until he watched the video like everyone else.

The Priest should not have offered Communion in the first place.

 

[Lucky Pierre]

The Priest should not have offered Communion in the first place.

Priest doesn't know who can and who cannot take it.

 

[Why Not?]

I'm also Catholic and....who cares? Hard core Catholics also know that you're not actually supposed to take the host in your hand and put it to your own mouth. You are supposed to allow the priest to place it on your tongue.

So he didn't know what to do...big deal.

It used to be true that you weren't allowed to touch the host. (I used to be an altar boy for 8 years in the 60's. I know.) The host is treated with great reverance and showing it disrespect is considered to be very bad form. I once saw someone get ill and throw up immediately after receiving communion. The priest stopped the mass, got a cloth, recovered the host from the church floor and took it away to dispose of it in some appropriate way. (I don't know what.) He was very concerned that it had ended up on the floor and took extraordinary measures to get it back.

I'm not so sure that no touching of the host, by the recipient of communion, is enforced any more though due to public health - infectious disease concerns. I believe that you are now allowed to take the host from the priest's hands and put it in your own mouth.

As for who cares, I think the Catholic church might. Is Harper a Catholic? Communion is one of the sacred sacraments of the church. Only Catholics who have previously received 2 of the other sacraments (baptism and confirmation) are allowed to receive communion.

If he is not a baptized and confirmed Catholic he had no business being up there receiving communion. If this is true where the heck were his protocol droids that should have been advising him?

If he is a Catholic, and did consume the wafer rather than keeping it in his pocket, he did nothing wrong. Sounds like he could have made it look better though.

 

[blackrock13]

mountain / molehill

True, but it tells us where his head is sometimes or what he does when he thinks no one is watching or listening. He's no dummy, but can do really stupid things at the worst time.

 

[great bear]

Perhaps Steve thought it was for a snack?