Plumbing Supply Issue

[C Dick]

My house has low water pressure. Our ancient kitchen faucet finally expired, so we replaced it. But it is a low-flow model, all faucets are like that now, I gather. With our low water pressure, it is a joke, it takes 45 seconds to fill a water jug. It ends up wasting water, because you go away and come back.

So my question is, what do you have to do, to get a faucet that does not restrict the flow? Can you buy them in the US? From eBay? Is there anywhere in Ontario to get them? I would appreciate any suggestions.

 

[james t kirk]

You unscrew the aerator at the end of the faucet where the water comes out.

You push out the plastic piece that contains the screens and a metal disk with a small hole in it.

You discard the metal disk, keep the screens, rubber gaskets, and reinstall those.

Screw the aerator back into the end of the faucet (less the disk)

Voila

Why do you have low water pressure (actually you have low flow, not pressure)?

 

[tboy]

My house has low water pressure. Our ancient kitchen faucet finally expired, so we replaced it. But it is a low-flow model, all faucets are like that now, I gather. With our low water pressure, it is a joke, it takes 45 seconds to fill a water jug. It ends up wasting water, because you go away and come back.

So my question is, what do you have to do, to get a faucet that does not restrict the flow? Can you buy them in the US? From eBay? Is there anywhere in Ontario to get them? I would appreciate any suggestions.

Ummm I have NEVER encountered a low flow faucet unless it spec's it on the package and I have never seen one spec'd.

If you have low water pressure you can install an accumulator tank and auxillary pump. So what happens is the tank fills up under pressure, you turn on the faucet and the pump/tank provide a (relatively) long flow of high(er) pressure water. We're not talking jacuzzi filling gallons of water, but enough to do dishes, wash clothes, have a shower etc.

City water is typically around 100 psi but if you're a long ways away from the nearest pump, or up a large hill, your pressure will be less.

 

[james t kirk]

City water is typically around 100 psi but if you're a long ways away from the nearest pump, or up a large hill, your pressure will be less.

Not quite.

City water pressure is typically 60 psi.

He doesn't have a pressure problem, he has a flow problem.

Q (Flow) = V (Velocity in m/s) x A (cross sectional area in m2 of the pipe)

= m3/second (or ft3/second for the ludites out there)

When homeowners complain of "low pressure" problems, the city does not come to your house and attach a pressure gage since it would show 60 psi. What they do is come with a bucket with a known volume and TIME how long it takes to fill said bucket. If it takes longer than the chart says it should, they investigate further.


Flow problems are typically caused by a reduction in cross sectional area of the pipe since pressure is constant.

My guess is our friend C Dick has either a lead water service or galvanized pipes, or perhaps a 1/2" copper water service.

 

[Rockslinger]

But it is a low-flow model,

I hate this crap. Trying to get a good flow of water is like pulling teeth.

 

[C Dick]

Thanks for the info so far. Let me clarify: I live out in the country, so I have a 200 foot well, with a pump at the bottom. In addition, we have a bunch of things for the water to flow through, such as various filters, ultra-violet cleaner, water softener, etc. Each of which causes a pressure drop. So chances are that the pressure delivered to the kitchen faucet is lower than it would be in the city.

But the old faucet was fine, and we have a tap under the sink that is also fine, the water comes out very quickly. The plumber who installed the new faucet came back, and removed the aerator (?), but he said that it does not help enough. He claimed that all faucets sold in Canada must be restricted, because this will in theory save water. The bottom line is that he said he could not do anything more to the faucet, but it still flows only a small fraction of what the tap underneath does. Some quick Googling suggest that there is such a law in Canada, perhaps passed in 1995. Perhaps with regular pressure, my faucet would be ok, but with my pressure, it is not. I could install a tap like the one underneath, but Mrs.CD would not like that, she still wants it to look like a nice faucet. Thanks.

 

[james t kirk]

I have a Kohler Revival faucet which is fairly new, but no such problems.

But I'm living in the city, not the sticks.

 

[landscaper]

Thanks for the info so far. Let me clarify: I live out in the country, so I have a 200 foot well, with a pump at the bottom. In addition, we have a bunch of things for the water to flow through, such as various filters, ultra-violet cleaner, water softener, etc. Each of which causes a pressure drop. So chances are that the pressure delivered to the kitchen faucet is lower than it would be in the city.

But the old faucet was fine, and we have a tap under the sink that is also fine, the water comes out very quickly. The plumber who installed the new faucet came back, and removed the aerator (?), but he said that it does not help enough. He claimed that all faucets sold in Canada must be restricted, because this will in theory save water. The bottom line is that he said he could not do anything more to the faucet, but it still flows only a small fraction of what the tap underneath does. Some quick Googling suggest that there is such a law in Canada, perhaps passed in 1995. Perhaps with regular pressure, my faucet would be ok, but with my pressure, it is not. I could install a tap like the one underneath, but Mrs.CD would not like that, she still wants it to look like a nice faucet. Thanks.

Check the flow rate out of the well, the actual pressure is irrelavent it is the amount of water coming out not how much presure is behind

The attachments that you have , filters and such will actually increase teh presure in the system while restriciting the water flow.

Have your plumber check the output pressure of the pump this is the only point that the pressure matters. At the same time check the flow rate you should have several to many gallons per minute, the exact number will depend on your well pump etc.

The bad news, you may need a new pump, or worse your well may not be providing as much water as you need. If you have had any major construction in the area that could have lowered the water table sewer work major roads etc can do it.

If your pump pressure and flow rate are acceptable you have a restriction in youre home .

 

[great bear]

Thanks for the info so far. Let me clarify: I live out in the country, so I have a 200 foot well, with a pump at the bottom. In addition, we have a bunch of things for the water to flow through, such as various filters, ultra-violet cleaner, water softener, etc. Each of which causes a pressure drop. So chances are that the pressure delivered to the kitchen faucet is lower than it would be in the city.

But the old faucet was fine, and we have a tap under the sink that is also fine, the water comes out very quickly. The plumber who installed the new faucet came back, and removed the aerator (?), but he said that it does not help enough. He claimed that all faucets sold in Canada must be restricted, because this will in theory save water. The bottom line is that he said he could not do anything more to the faucet, but it still flows only a small fraction of what the tap underneath does. Some quick Googling suggest that there is such a law in Canada, perhaps passed in 1995. Perhaps with regular pressure, my faucet would be ok, but with my pressure, it is not. I could install a tap like the one underneath, but Mrs.CD would not like that, she still wants it to look like a nice faucet. Thanks.

Had the same problem. It was the aerator that was designed to help remove iron from the water that was clogged. Cleaned the areator and no more problems.

 

[Meister]

Pipe diameters, pump size, distance from pump to faucet, restrictions (filters, calcium buildup, stones), shutoff valve positions and type, Inlet pipe crushed....

Addressing anyone of those issues will help with water flow.
The people that are saying that pressure and water flow are not related I'm just asking if all things remain the same how do you increase water flow without cranking up the pressure?

 

[buckwheat1]

I live in the country!!! thank the Lord for that. if your on a well you have a pressure tank in the basement check the pressure in the tank, another think on top of the tank
there is a air valve press it if water comes out the rubber membrane is broken and you require a new pressure tank, they usually last 5-10 years.

 

[69Shooter]

I'm not a plumbing expert but you will want to put an aerator back on the faucet... that's what keeps the water flow splashing all over the place when it hits the sink of something sitting in the sink.

 

[james t kirk]

Pipe diameters, pump size, distance from pump to faucet, restrictions (filters, calcium buildup, stones), shutoff valve positions and type, Inlet pipe crushed....

Addressing anyone of those issues will help with water flow.
The people that are saying that pressure and water flow are not related I'm just asking if all things remain the same how do you increase water flow without cranking up the pressure?

You increase the diametre of the pipe first and foremost, but also....

You also avoid eblowing the pipes except where absolutely necessary.

You use quarter turn ball valves instead of globe valves (which are brutal and reduce the pressure head)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globe_valve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_valve


You make sure your water is not too hard which causes the pipes to clogg

You replace galvanized rigid pipes with copper or Pex.

 

[tboy]

Heeeeeeeeeeeere we go again!

.......

Hey, I am only repeating what I was told so ......don't start.....

Here's what may be a dumb question but:

Are the shutoffs under the sink fully open? As well as any shutoffs between the sink and the source?

As others have stated that maybe the shutoffs under the sink in question aren't fully opening due to buildup.

But if everything was fine before installing the new faucet then the problem is.....duh....the faucet.

You increase the diametre of the pipe first and foremost, but also....

But, if you increase the diameter of the pipe, and the pump is only rated at x psi at x diameter, wouldn't increasing the diameter simply decrease the pressure? ie: you can move lots of water, but not very quickly due to low pressure....(not arguing, just asking....)

 

[Gentle Ben]

Some faucettes actually have restricters in the supply tubes to be compliant with the low flow ratings , something like 2.2 gal per minute is the maximum permisble flow for faucettes and shower heads., ( Moen with the pull out spout for example.) When I lived on the country (on a pump & cistern) we installed one of them, I actually called Moen to talk to them about the very poor flow. They suggested I remove the faucette and pull out the restrictors, this was done by gently screwing a wood screw into the restrictor in the end of the supply and pulling the restrictor out .
There is also restriction in the aerator as mentioned previously
My folks always had poor volume in their home, they only had 1/2" supply into the house, the main is on the other side of the street, so roughly 100' of main to get to the house, plus the inside pipe. literally if the washer was filling in the basement, and you flushed the toilet on the main floor, there was no water at the sink. Rectified that by changing the service from the main to the house with 3/4" .

 

[james t kirk]

But, if you increase the diameter of the pipe, and the pump is only rated at x psi at x diameter, wouldn't increasing the diameter simply decrease the pressure? ie: you can move lots of water, but not very quickly due to low pressure....(not arguing, just asking....)

You keep confusing pressure with flow.

Pressure = unit weight x h (height)

Pressure (water) = 1000 kg/m3 x 9.81 m/s2 x height m

=9810 N/m2 x h(m)

= 9.81 KN/m3 x h(m)

If you had a vertical pipe, 2 metres tall, filled with water, the pressure would be 9.81 KN/m3 x 2m

= 18.6 KN/m2

= 18.6 KPa




in imperial....

P = gamma h

= 62.4 lbs/ft3 x h (ft)

If you had a pipe 5 feet vertical, the pressure would be

62.4 lbs/ft3 x 5 ft

310 lbs/ft2

= 2.15 lbs/in2 (psi)

Pressure is constant in a pipe, whether it's 1/8" in diameter, or 10 feet in diameter.

The pressure rating of a pipe simply means how much pressure it is rated to withstand and the diameter is the diameter.

Flow Q = VA

V= velocity

A = Area

The term "low water pressure" is a misnomer. It's not low water pressure, it's low water flow.

The pressure in a system is constant (well, except for friction losses I suppose, but let's ignore that for the moment as that then becomes multivariable calculus....)

If pressure is constant, velocity is constant, the only variable is cross-sectional area of the pipe.

Think of it this way.....assume that water pressure is constant in the city's network at 60 psi.

Now, I give you a garden hose with a diameter of a half inch. Therefore, the cross sectional area = pi r2 = .25 x .25 x 3.14159 = .2 inches squared.

You pretty much can visualize how much water is going to come out of that hose.

Now imagine I told you to hold a watermain that is 12 inches in diametre while I turn on the water.

You'd get the fuck out of there in a hurry.

Yet the pressure is the same in both pipes.

It's just the bigger one can deliver a much greater quantity of water (or flow) because of its larger diameter.

 

[LateComer]

I have never heard of a low flow kitchen faucet but what do I know? I'm not a plumber but I have replaced a few faucets in my day. I have noticed that sometimes the aerator would get clogged with bits of solder - sometimes to the point of cutting off the water flow completely. I now remove the aerator and flush out the faucet when doing any plumbing work.

 

[Meister]

You increase the diametre of the pipe first and foremost, but also....

You didn't get my point. My point was that the only way you can increase the waterflow if everything remains constant is cranking up the pressure.

 

[james t kirk]

You didn't get my point. My point was that the only way you can increase the waterflow if everything remains constant is cranking up the pressure.

Then you blow your pipes out because they have a certain pressure rating. Usually the weak spots are the joints.

That's not a good idea.

 

[C Dick]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I don't think the problem is with the pump, supplies, etc., because it was fine with the old faucet, and it is still fine with the tap under the sink. The problem is that the new faucet only allows a narrow feed of water, by design. So I have these options in order to get a larger volume of water coming out per second:

- Increase the pressure. This would be very expensive, requiring that I replace my relatively new pump and tank. And potentially problematic, in that as was pointed out, the rest of my plumbing likely could not take it.
- Fix this faucet, by removing the intentional narrowing. Our plumber claims this is not possible, that it is designed as a low-flow device, so it is not just a matter of removing plates.
- Replace the faucet, with a faucet that was a wider water path, and hence more volume of water for a given input pressure. This is what I want to do.

Does anyone have any contacts in plumbing supply, or know where such a faucet might be available? Thanks.