Plumbing Question??

[homer]

Hello!

Let me start this off by stating that, I am probably one of the least handy men I know. But I still like to give things a try. Anyway, I've been requested, OK, ordered to replace the kitchen tap. Shouldn't be too hard, except I have one really stupid question. There are no shut off valves under the sink, and I've traced the pipes backwards. It apprears to me that the main valve is the only cold water shut off point prior to the kitchen, there are valves for upstairs etc, so that should be easy enough. My problem is the hot water. There is no valve between the tank and the kitchen.. If I shut off the water before the tank (main valve, and/or the one right in front of the tank), will it stop the flow of hot water when I remove the old taps?? Will doing this cause any problem with the hot water tank. Laugh away if you must, but I really don't know? Thanks for your patience and help.

Homer

 

[Gentle Ben]

Shut off the main valve to the house, then open a set of taps lower than the kitchen if possible (laundry), but serious advice, its an easy job if you know what you're doing, you can run into problems, by the sounds of it, and no disrespect to you, I would call a plumber in., even some hardware stores do installs if you buy from them, it could be money well spent

 

[hunter001]

Shutoff the main water value, open hot and cold taps to bleed the line. There will be no pressure in the system after that.

 

[rick dickulous]

Once you've bled the lines to the kitchen sink, then cut them both, one slightly below the other. Insert a couple of new valves that you bought at home depot or Rona. Get the compression fit ones so you don't have to solder. From the new cut off valves run some braided stainless steel hoses to your new faucet set. Go with compression fittings all the way, what a pro job!

I am the ultimate handyman, if I do it, it's fabulous

 

[tboy]

Yup, rick's right on target.....but word of caution, don't cross thread the compression fittings. I've seen guys who do it for a living cross thread them. Another thing is make sure they are T I G H T and it is never a bad idea to put some teflon tape on the threads but don't let the tape interfere with the compression ring.....(that's the little round thing that goes on the pipe from the wall after you put the nut on).

Oh, forgot to tell you to pick a pipe cutter too. You'll need that to cut the feed pipes coming from the wall. Just don't cut them too close to the wall, remember you have to work on them.

 

[Papi Chulo]

I say don't be cheap.. hire a professional and get the job done right

 

[rick dickulous]

I did a couple of dishwasher jobs with Aquapex piping. It's aluminum pipe with a plastic turquoise jacket. That stuff is some sweet material to work with. The days of soldering copper are over for me!

 

[tboy]

I did a couple of dishwasher jobs with Aquapex piping. It's aluminum pipe with a plastic turquoise jacket. That stuff is some sweet material to work with. The days of soldering copper are over for me!

That's the proper name? I've seen it used and was pretty amazed how easy it was to use....Supposedly by code now you can do your whole house with it.......but really, sweating copper is a breeze but copper is getting outrageously expensive.....

 

[hunter001]

Call a plumber.

 

[Svend]

Lately I've been using the pre-soldered copper fittings, they work fine and do a neat job.
I'd agree, compression fittings are the way to go for something like this if you install shutoffs.

Whether or not you hire a plumber, keep a pitcher of water in case it has to be turned off longer than you expected.

 

[james t kirk]

Get the compression fit ones so you don't have to solder.

Go with compression fittings all the way, what a pro job!

I disagree. Compression fittings are crap.

They leak, they can even "pop" off.

Use solder only. It's not that hard and it won't leak ever, nor will it pop off leaving you with a HUGE problem.

 

[tboy]

James T, I've never had one "pop off" but yeah, some do leak that's why I suggested using teflon tape, it does help.

Yeah soldering is the best way to go and just thinking outloud, and if Homer wouldn't mind investing a little more money for the proper tools, he could practise sweating some copper together on scraps before sweating on the valves. But really, we are only talking about the connection between the copper pipe coming out of the wall and the shut off valves because the norm these days is to use braided flex line to the actual faucet.

One point which hasn't been discussed is the hot and cold. Make sure you connect them properly (hot is normally on the left!) because if you don't, someone could get scalded.

 

[LadysMan10]

Make sure you CUT ALL POWER GOING TO THE HOT WATER TANK before you shut the water going to the tank!!! This is important as you can burnout the heating elements inside the tank if there is no water being supplied to the tank.

LM10

 

[tboy]

No offense tbay but even you don't know the correct method for using compression fittings. Teflon tape is NOT used in compression fittings.

Dude, not to argue but when a pipe thread, even a compression fitting threads, are leaking, teflon tape stops the leak.

You are correct, typically that is the case but when the threads leak, tape will fix it. Believe me, after dealing with 20 shitty compression fittings for dishwasher installs in the last month, I know from what I'm talking about.

 

[hambone]

Dude, not to argue but when a pipe thread, even a compression fitting threads, are leaking, teflon tape stops the leak.

You are correct, typically that is the case but when the threads leak, tape will fix it. Believe me, after dealing with 20 shitty compression fittings for dishwasher installs in the last month, I know from what I'm talking about.

Please explain how the water gets to the threads??? The water is inside the pipe, the end if the pipe is inside the body of the fitting and the threads are outside the fitting. If the water leaks from anywhere is it not going to leak down the outside of the pipe?

 

[tboy]

I could draw you a picture but that wouldn't work on here. Let's see, the compression fitting seats between the retaining nut and the fixture you're attaching it to. The fitting is the "gasket" the supposedly seals the openings between the pipe, the nut and the fixture which means there are 3 areas where water can leak from. The water can leak between the pipe and the compression fitting, the fitting and the nut, and the fitting and the fixture. If there is a burr or deformity on the valve, and the compression ring doesn't seat perfectly on the fixture, leaking can occur.

Put it this way, I had to use this method on the elbows into the dishwasher too and it worked everytime. I know for one that the valves were shit and many had flashing on them left over from when they were chrome plated. So instead of filing everyone of the friggen things I wrapped the threads with teflon tape and the leak stopped. Who am I to argue with reality?

 

[fuji]

An improperly torqued compression fitting CAN pop off.

I replaced my kitchen sink tap recently, and used a compression fitting. I did it myself. It was easy enough. But now you have me worried....

...how do I know if it's improperly torqued?

In my case there are shutoff valves under the sink. If there wasn't, and I'd had to cut pipes and shut off water to the whole house, I would never have tried it myself. As it turns out when I went to do it, I was missing some tools and a part that I needed to complete the job, so I left the water shut off until the next day when I could buy the parts I needed.... just imagine if I'd had to leave the water shut off to the whole house!! What a pain.

If you are installing shutoff valves call a plumber. If something goes wrong with my work, I have a shutoff valve, I can stop the flood (if I'm here ). If your work goes wrong you don't have a shutoff to control the problem, your shutoff might BE the problem....

...so in this case call a plumber.

Still, I'd like someone to explain "improperly torqued" to me. I tightened the dam thing until I couldn't move it any further, and checked for leaks, is that not enough?

 

[tboy]

yup, that's enough.......for the record, I've never seen a properly installed compression fitting pop off. But then again, it is only held in there by friction so if the water pressure suddenly increases 4x it could let go. But then again, that amount of pressure might also blow every valve in the place so....

 

[icto]

I'd vote for the plumber as well. You sure don't want to be soldering, and if you under-or-over-tighten a compression fitting, it will fail. I'm sure there's a wide range where it's fine, but if you literally have no idea what it should feel like, I sure wouldn't risk it.

I also cannot see teflon tape helping with a compression fitting. Aside from extraneous water being able to flow between the pipe and the part you tighten, it's only intended for tapered pipe threads, and this thread isn't tapered.

 

[homer]

Thanks!

Hello Out there!

Wow, thanks for all your helpful replies. I guess I didn't mention all the details as I believe I do not have to cut and solder any copper pipes as there is an existing compression fitting in place. I was planning on using those braided hose from Can Tire for connections. My biggest concern was the hot water tank though. Thanks again for all your help and advice!

Homer