Pit Bulls - not personal attacks please

[big dogie]

They were merely questions ... (I made no statement in that post.)

Where do you draw the line? Say that you are a legislator; do you allow wolves and bobcats in urban centers? Do you allow wolfdogs in urban centers? Wolves tend to shy away from humans. What you will get in a wolfdog is totally unpredictable.

I personally hate the idea of wild animals as pets, that's just it they are not pets and should be left in the wild...

As I previously stated reason says you are right but my experience tells me differently. These wolf crosses were bred and raised by very experienced people, that definently has to be taken into account...... just as PB's are not a beginer breed, they should never be someone's first dog they ever had ....

[/B][/QUOTE]Pit bulls were breed to fight in the pits. They were breed to hate other dogs. Do you think that breed characteristics will show up in many of them? Of course in all breeds there are dogs that do not display breed characteristics. The trouble with pit bulls is that they are a crossbreed and thus I think that over time the rules will be gotten around simply by changing the name of the cross, there is no way to positively identify a pit bull using DNA. [/B][/QUOTE]

Right I agree but when you open the door too stupidity like banning a breed of dog when you reduce the world to it's lowest common denominator...... Soon booze will be banned, guns, cars, sex, everything is then up for debate for ones persons or a special interst groups view how we should live. Rights and fredoms is trump not what some wacko politicans or zelots view of how we should live. The many should not pay for the sins of the few!

b d

 

[The Shake]

I think that the ban is poorly planed and more about political optics than public safety. I think that a lot of beautiful, and harmless, dogs are going to be destroyed for no good reason.

That said, there is a problem, the public is scared, and it's the government's job to respond to such fears. The question becomes, what is the alternative and why didn't responsible owners of such dogs do something about it before the government stepped in with such a knee-jerk response?

 

[banshie]

... why didn't responsible owners of such dogs do something about it before the government stepped in with such a knee-jerk response?

What could responsible owners do? They have no power to control those who are not responsible.

I agree with most that the problem is with the owners, rather than the dogs themselves. But, there is a problem which needs to be addressed. Banning the breed may not be the fairest solution, but it would be effective. If somebody could suggest another, effective option, I would be all for it.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

According to the Toronto Star, Toronto has recorded 669 dog bites this year alone. Of those, 91 (13.6%) were attributed to Pit Bulls, 77 (11.5%) attributed to German Shepherds and 24 (3.5%) to Labrador Retrievers. The majority of dog bites are NOT committed by Pit Bulls.

So could someone please explain to me how banning this breed will protect me or someone I love from the other 86.5% of the dogs that do bite?

 

[holden]

So could someone please explain to me how banning this bread will protect me or someone I love from the other 86.5% of the dogs that do bite?

I think it has to do with the ferocity of the attacks, I don't think I heard of a case where a German Shepard caused over 100 stitches of damage to a person

 

[mtl_guy]

Do you think pitbulls make up 14% of the dog population in Toronto?

According to the Toronto Star, Toronto has recorded 669 dog bites this year alone. Of those, 91 (13.6%) were attributed to Pit Bulls

 

[red]

Do you think pitbulls make up 14% of the dog population in Toronto?

thanks for understanding statistics

 

[Ranger68]

I think it has to do with the ferocity of the attacks, I don't think I heard of a case where a German Shepard caused over 100 stitches of damage to a person

Over the last twenty years or so, in North America, there have been roughly as many fatal dog attacks perpetrated by German Shepherds as by Pit Bulls.
This is a matter of public record.

 

[mtl_guy]

Im sure there is just a few more German Shephards in North America than there are pitbulls.
So if theres been the same number of deadly attacks, what does that say about the frequency of pittbull attacks?

Over the last twenty years or so, in North America, there have been roughly as many fatal dog attacks perpetrated by German Shepherds as by Pit Bulls.
This is a matter of public record.

 

[Ranger68]

Do you know how many more German Shepherds there are in North America? Hmm? You don't. You're just using your "gut instincts". Most people's "gut instincts" suck.
Do you know how many pit bulls there are in North America?
Do you know what *that* says about the frequency of attacks?

The odds of a pit bull attacking you are frantically small, people.

When 9-11 happened, people were suddenly afraid to fly. When Jaws came out, people were suddenly scared of swimming in the ocean. None of these people stopped smoking, or driving cars, or all kinds of *truly* life-threatening behaviour, despite the fact that these things were MILLIONS of times more dangerous.

This fear of pit bulls is born out of ignorance.
It's nothing more than a modern day witch hunt.
Wake up.

(Oh, and just to answer your question - it says that the frequencies of pit bull attacks and german shepherd attacks are the same.)

 

[mtl_guy]

Prove me wrong if I am.

Show me data that shows how many pitbulls and german sheppards there are (in toronto or canada or us) and compare that to how may attacks there are by each breed.

Then we can compare percentages for attack frequency.

Do you know how many more German Shepherds there are in North America? Hmm? You don't. You're just using your "gut instincts". Most people's "gut instincts" suck.
Do you know how many pit bulls there are in North America?
Do you know what *that* says about the frequency of attacks?

The odds of a pit bull attacking you are frantically small, people.

When 9-11 happened, people were suddenly afraid to fly. When Jaws came out, people were suddenly scared of swimming in the ocean. None of these people stopped smoking, or driving cars, or all kinds of *truly* life-threatening behaviour, despite the fact that these things were MILLIONS of times more dangerous.

This fear of pit bulls is born out of ignorance.
It's nothing more than a modern day witch hunt.
Wake up.

(Oh, and just to answer your question - it says that the frequencies of pit bull attacks and german shepherd attacks are the same.)

 

[tzahal]

you all know my opinion

 

[tzahal]

Im sure there is just a few more German Shephards in North America than there are pitbulls.
So if theres been the same number of deadly attacks, what does that say about the frequency of pittbull attacks?

seeing as you have no real way of knowing how many underground breeders breed the pitty's, and it's many, you cant be sure of anything

 

[Ranger68]

Prove me wrong if I am.

Show me data that shows how many pitbulls and german sheppards there are (in toronto or canada or us) and compare that to how may attacks there are by each breed.

Then we can compare percentages for attack frequency.

I told you the numbers of attacks was roughly the same - this means that - pay attention now - *the frequency of pit bull attacks and german shepherd attacks* is the same.

Why don't you do your own homework to support your argument, hmm?

 

[banshie]

Ranger68. You are missing his point. If the number of attacks is (roughly) the same, and the number of german shepherds is twice that of pit bulls (I have no idea of the real ratio), then the percentage of pit bulls which attack would be twice that of german shepherds.

 

[tzahal]

it might even surprise you to know that seeing as this ban will encompass 4 or5 breeds that can be technically called a pit bull, that there are alot more pit bulls then there are german sheppards.

so whats the point again?

 

[jwmorrice]

For pity sakes!

Can anyone explain to me why....

No one is demanding that the government to something about all dogs? The breed is not the problem the problem is the owners do not understand enough about the breed to be able to handle them properly....

No one is demanding that the government do something about 'all dogs' because, I guess, no one sees 'all dogs' as the big problem. It's a solution in search of a problem.

Pit bulls are a real problem and a breed ban a reasonably effective solution. Education would be politically unpopular and would probably be very costly, even supposing it would work. Any information on the cost effectiveness of education in other jurisdictions or is it just an article of faith? Forgive me if I'm suspicious but I suspect you're just trying to toss us a bone!

Now I do happen to agree that certain people will probably move to other breeds of fighting dogs when pit bulls are finally banned. Just a guess and not supported, as far as I know, by our Canadian experience. Nonetheless, I think it's unfortunate that the proposed legislation is not more encompassing of these types of dogs. Maybe some lobbying on the question will help.

jwm

 

[The Shake]

They are not being destroyed just banned

From what I understand, Pit Bulls and similar breeds (Staffordshire Terriers, American Bull Terriers, etc.) are over-represented in animal shelters. Those animals will now have to be put down, as the legislation does not allow for them to be adopted out.

The speculation (and its admittedly just that) is that many Pit Bull owners will abandon their animals to shelters rather than deal with the trouble of complying with the new regulations dealing with a "banned" breed.

I'm not making a judgment on this, just pointing out the presumed reality.

 

[assoholic]

..the truth is of course few of us if any really know the statistics. My opinion is any dog that attacks a human being should be put down, unless the dog is ridiculously provoked or is protecting the home. Further the owners should be prosecuted and thrown in jail. Dogs occassionally attack people, thats the way it is so any dog owner has to take ownership of the responsibility for that dog's actions. A single bite should be counted the same as if the owner stabbed someone, and in most cases should be enough for at least a month in jail. If your gonna let your dog off the leash or cant control him/her thats your fault. I hate to break it to some dog owners, but people come first.

 

[Ranger68]

Ranger68. You are missing his point. If the number of attacks is (roughly) the same, and the number of german shepherds is twice that of pit bulls (I have no idea of the real ratio), then the percentage of pit bulls which attack would be twice that of german shepherds.

I was making a point about understanding language and statistics. I understood his point quite clearly, but he couldn't express it properly.

He didn't say anything about "the percentage of pit bulls" that attack, he made mention of "the frequency".

Do you know what percentage of pit bulls have been involved in attacks?
We're talking about a number like 0.0005 percent. Yes, this is higher than the 0.0001 percent of German Shepherds which are involved in attacks. Pit bulls are five times likelier than German Shepherds, to use these numbers.
But, if you're going to talk about *percentages* rather than frequency, let's be clear that these are the kinds of numbers that you're talking about.

Hopefully, if you're thinking rationally, these put the whole argument in perspective.