Photo Radar in School zone and beyond

[rhuarc29]

They need to seriously revamp how they enforce speeding restrictions.

I may catch flak for this over privacy concerns, but my opinion is this:

Speeding fines should not be handed out by police. Each vehicle should be equipped with software that records your speed and GPS location. Speed fines should be handed out based on your median speed, although spikes over a certain threshold (50km/h+ over speed limit) should also be punished. Speed limits should be raised everywhere except in school zones and high-density residential areas.

This has benefits. You aren't punished for being unlucky (speeding at the wrong time). You aren't punished for momentary actions, like passing. It also doesn't rely on the officer's discretion.

But it may also have drawbacks. One, many people will be upset by the invasion of privacy. Usually I'd be one of those people, but not here. A second concern would be the possibility of "gaming" the system. If you're stuck in traffic, lowering your median speed, could you then speed excessively once free?

Maybe I'm just being wistful here, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had such a system in a few decades. That is, if we're still driving vehicles at that time....

 

[oldjones]

They need to seriously revamp how they enforce speeding restrictions.

I may catch flak for this over privacy concerns, but my opinion is this:

Speeding fines should not be handed out by police. Each vehicle should be equipped with software that records your speed and GPS location. Speed fines should be handed out based on your median speed, although spikes over a certain threshold (50km/h+ over speed limit) should also be punished. Speed limits should be raised everywhere except in school zones and high-density residential areas.

This has benefits. You aren't punished for being unlucky (speeding at the wrong time). You aren't punished for momentary actions, like passing. It also doesn't rely on the officer's discretion.

But it may also have drawbacks. One, many people will be upset by the invasion of privacy. Usually I'd be one of those people, but not here. A second concern would be the possibility of "gaming" the system. If you're stuck in traffic, lowering your median speed, could you then speed excessively once free?

Maybe I'm just being wistful here, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had such a system in a few decades. That is, if we're still driving vehicles at that time....

Now there's a cash grab!

Laws and enforcement of them aside, you've actually hit on something we all want: User pay roads. Remove gasoline taxes (or tie them to carbon costs alone) but every foot you drive has a dollar cost, and you pay monthly or you car gets impounded. If you want to collect from your passengers, go ahead. We could even assess the xtra costs involved on those whose roads need re-building. What could be fairer.

And of course, as you point out, the technology also enables us to impose punishment for driving infractions, such as speeding, failing to signal lane changes or when pulling out from a curb, rolling stops, and for parking infractions.

Absolutely brilliant!

But I suspect most folks will prefer to continue enjoying socialized roads and ineffective law enforcement. You may even find they express their anti-law'n'order, communistic preferences in typically Trumpy terms. People being the strange critters they are.

 

[kono]

In school hours speed limits are lower (usually 40) and outside school hours limits are higher (usually 50)

Slippery slope, have you driven in the UK? They've got photo radar everywhere. It's one thing to have it in school zones but you start rolling it out on streets province wide. Theirs a problem. Speed limits in some areas are already to low. Have you ever driven in Georgetown? My god, I could never live there. And you you even have people that drive below the speed limit. The PRIMARY causes of accidents is not speeding (in most cases) it's distracted driving. The answer to reducing accidents isn't reducing limits to ridiculous levels like 40/30km. All that's going to do is create more and more road rage. And more then likely it'll make things worse. And insurance rates will go through the roof. We already pay some of the highest insurance in the modern world. We need forward thinking like they do in Europe.

Here you go - Radar dectectors
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=radar+detector&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aradar+detector

???

What "slippery slope" is there???

WTF is a "photo radar detector" lmao, good luck finding one in the US
I can only assume you mean radar detector, the majority of which are useless

 

[TeeJay]

Most of the speed limits are set arbitrarily & are too slow.

Cry me a river but mandatory 30KM/h is coming

 

[GPIDEAL]

Most of the speed limits are set arbitrarily & are too slow.
It irks me when you have a 4 lane main artery with few business driveways & no houses fronting on & they set the limit
At 50 kph. Can you say speed trap?

If they would raise them where it is safe to do so, then I could accept PR.
If they set the PR in School Zones for when the schools are operating plus a little extra morning & after school, then it would be reasonable.
To have it on at all times & then beat the child safety drum is a cash grab that will spread.

In many school zone places in the US , the speed may be 40mph when schools are closed & strict enforcement of 20mph during operating days.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

I can tolerate such devices in school zones, but if not during school hours, should you get a ticket if you're slightly over the speed limit, even 10 km over?

I've driven by radar traps on highways in excess of 10 KM/HR or maybe 15 KM/HR (perhaps 20 KM/HR on rare occasions), BUT I was moving with the traffic. Police officers don't engage in a high speed chase for such violations.

 

[captnkirk]

S
Observe the speed limits posted!where ever they are
It aint fucking rocket science people..holy fuck!
The more Cameras on the streets the better
if you dont want to obey the posted speed limits...Take a fucking bus!

Thumper is 100% correct.

The slippery slope is if you think it should be ok with disobeying speed limits that have been set by society then what other laws do you think you have the right to ignore?

I was a supplier to the original photo radar that Mike Harris killed. Our client at MOT had the stats in spades that showed that where it was used photo radar reduced the # of accidents, the severity of the accidents that did occur and the # of fatalities. Harris said it was just as revenue grab as the only science he believed in was the physics of golf ball trajectory. Our client at MOT got a huge severance package to shut up and go away and his stats were hidden or destroyed.

If photo radar is bad why do many conservative juridictions (e.g AB ) use it since 1993?
They have the stats as well.

So what about it being a revenue grab?
So what? we are taking money from people who break the law...they are scumbags so who cares.

The car owner punished not the driver? Boo hoo. Do not lend your car to idiots who drive too fast.

I say take it one step further and extend the concept of "speeding = pay up" to the 407
1. raise the 407 speed limit to 120
2. Adjust the 407 billing program so that based on your average speed between your entry and exit points, if your average speed was >120 then there is a progressive fine applied to your bill.
3. if you are doing 150+ (which many 407 drivers are doing) then the fine is automatically $2000 which is the minimum. The fact that there was no cop nearby to catch you and impound your car does not make you right. NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO DRIVE THAT FAST!
4. All revenues gained from the 407 program are to be localized to the municipalities between the entry and exit points with ONE caveat....the speeding fines are to go into the budget line item that pays operating expenses for rapid transit.

That would provide the extra buses to accommodate all of you little dicked guys who drive Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Range Rovers at excessive speeds.

(Have you ever seen a Range Rover being driven reasonably?)

 

[TeeJay]

Here you go - Radar dectectors
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=radar+detector&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aradar+detector

I suggest you brush up on those reading skills
You asked about a "photo radar detector"
There is no such device

And just for shits & giggles, let us know how you think a device could function that would "detect" a box taking photographs? While at the same time eliminating all the background noise from kids with cell phone cameras
Though I got to admit funny you went back to edit post after I called you out lol
Too bad I quoted you before you edited it
Oops

 

[GPIDEAL]

They need to seriously revamp how they enforce speeding restrictions.

I may catch flak for this over privacy concerns, but my opinion is this:

Speeding fines should not be handed out by police. Each vehicle should be equipped with software that records your speed and GPS location. Speed fines should be handed out based on your median speed, although spikes over a certain threshold (50km/h+ over speed limit) should also be punished. Speed limits should be raised everywhere except in school zones and high-density residential areas.

This has benefits. You aren't punished for being unlucky (speeding at the wrong time). You aren't punished for momentary actions, like passing. It also doesn't rely on the officer's discretion.

But it may also have drawbacks. One, many people will be upset by the invasion of privacy. Usually I'd be one of those people, but not here. A second concern would be the possibility of "gaming" the system. If you're stuck in traffic, lowering your median speed, could you then speed excessively once free?

Maybe I'm just being wistful here, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had such a system in a few decades. That is, if we're still driving vehicles at that time....

This might work IF there's technology (or improved technology) to improve traffic flow or minimize if not eliminate traffic jams by artificial intelligence integrated into cars and roads. No need to hurry - you will get there safely and as quickly as possible no matter what.

 

[GPIDEAL]

I suggest you brush up on those reading skills
You asked about a "photo radar detector"
There is no such device

And just for shits & giggles, let us know how you think a device could function that would "detect" a box taking photographs? While at the same time eliminating all the background noise from kids with cell phone cameras
Though I got to admit funny you went back to edit post after I called you out lol

Photo radar is basically stationary radar with a camera. You can probably employ a radar detector or your memory. When I was in Italy, there are warning signs on the highways to remind one of electronic speed controls, so you can slow down in advance. The drivers eventually know where the photo radars are and slow down as they approach, but then speed up after the risk of getting a ticket is gone. The point is, they are meant to keep the speeders in check.

Not sure but perhaps new photo radar cameras use the LIDAR technology (measuring pulsed laser light reflections) which is fixed on a specific target to ensure an accurate photo conviction rate.

Here's an excellent site, although dated but still has valuable info. No charge folks!

http://fyst.ca/appndxa.htm

 

[GameBoy27]

Sending what amounts to nothing more than an inconvenience charge to the registered owner of a vehicle, a month or two after the vehicle was detected exceeding the speed limit in a school zone, is hardly an effective deterrent. And isn't that the goal, to slow drivers down? As least that's what they want you to believe.

What stings is when you're caught speeding by a police officer. Your trip is delayed, you may receive a lecture, the offence goes on your driving record, your insurance may go up and if you're traveling in excess of 15 km/h over the limit, demerit points are added to your licence. Accumulate 9 points and you have an interview with MTO, 14 and you lose your licence.

If politicians were serious about "saving the children", then why do I rarely see speed enforcement in school zones? But they're always in the same fishing holes throughout the city. Because they're hypocrites.

At a news conference at Northlea public school in Toronto’s Leaside neighbourhood — in her riding — Wynne said families there were among those across the province “saying ‘we need to see something happen. You know, the streets are filled with cars that are driving too fast and we’re worried about our kids.’

“And in some cases like this, in this part of the province, in this neighbourhood, there actually was a child who was killed. And so it made it a very, very important issue here,” she added, referring to Georgia Walsh who died after being hit by a minivan two years ago.

I just love how Wynne used that poor girl who was killed in Leaside as an example for the need of photo radar. The driver who struck the girl was in fact not speeding. He ran a red light, making a right turn and didn't see the girl. Now tell me how photo radar or a red light camera would have saved that girl's life? :frusty:

Nice try Wynne. Got any other ideas to help get the province out of debt?

 

[Mr. Piggy]

Photo radar will do nothing to stop people from speeding. It is nothing but another cash grab by the Liberal Gov't. If the Gov't wants to spend taxpayers dollars on slowing people down then they should design a computer system that would plug into your vehicles ECM port that's connected to a satellite GPS and you have to insert your licence into the unit as well or the vehicle will not even start. This way the GPS will connect to the MTO's system and whatever the posted limit is, the vehicle will not be able to exceed the limit. How's that for speed control.
After all, the fucking Liberals made speed limiting mandatory on all big trucks no mater what jurisdiction they were from. Time to slow the asshole 4 wheelers down too.

 

[t.o.leafs.fan]

After all, the fucking Liberals made speed limiting mandatory on all big trucks no mater what jurisdiction they were from. Time to slow the asshole 4 wheelers down too.

Agreed. Anyone who drives on the busy roads around here know there are too many lunatics. It is time to take stricter measures to slow the aggressive drivers down. I for one think that having photo radars sites in random locations and in abundance would be somewhat of a deterrent. Money taken in could go directly to public transit initiatives etc. I don't see a single downside to photo radar.

 

[basketcase]

...
Arrest speeders in kids zones. Those morons in Wynne and Tory call these speeders criminals? How about the fucking national security issue with terrorism?...

Do you hide in your basement worried that the 'terrorists' are going to get you?


p.s. You do realize that Tory and Wynne have nothing to do with NATIONAL security right?

 

[GameBoy27]

Agreed. Anyone who drives on the busy roads around here know there are too many lunatics. It is time to take stricter measures to slow the aggressive drivers down. I for one think that having photo radars sites in random locations and in abundance would be somewhat of a deterrent. Money taken in could go directly to public transit initiatives etc. I don't see a single downside to photo radar.

I'm all for reducing speeding drivers in high risk areas. But photo radar does not slow drivers down. It simply sends the registered owner a fine a few months after the fact. No demerit points and no increase in insurance rates. Essentially, it's no different than a parking ticket.

Here's a thought... How about putting all the cops who regularly sit in fishing holes, in school zones twice a day? But no, they can write way more tickets, in non-dangerous areas where people tend to drive slightly above the posted limit. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Nothing to do with safety.

 

[gww]

Photo radar will slow some down in the specific area where they are known to be. Same as the police having a rountine spot to catch the speeders. The fines for going 15 over in a 40 should be harsher than going 15 over in a 80.

For all those whining about this being a cash grab - you can really screw up that plan if you like. Don't speed and you don't have to pay. Speeding and other traffic violations are basically a voluntary tax. Follow the rules and you won't have to volunteer your $$$.

P.S. I am not the perfect driveer myself. I have volunteered some taxes over the years.

 

[t.o.leafs.fan]

I'm all for reducing speeding drivers in high risk areas. But photo radar does not slow drivers down. It simply sends the registered owner a fine a few months after the fact. No demerit points and no increase in insurance rates. Essentially, it's no different than a parking ticket.

Here's a thought... How about putting all the cops who regularly sit in fishing holes, in school zones twice a day? But no, they can write way more tickets, in non-dangerous areas where people tend to drive slightly above the posted limit. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Nothing to do with safety.

It would slow me down (if I was a speeder). And, to the people who continue to flout the law it provides a consistent revenue stream for hopefully public transit/bike infrastructure. Why use man power at an extremely high cost when it can be done much more cheaply with a camera?

This is the results in Edmonton since photo radar's been introduced:
Severe collisions (fatal and injury): reduction of 32.1%
Property Damage Only collisions: reduction of 28.7%
Total collisions: reduction of 27.7%
Speed related property damage only collisions: reduction of 27.3%
Speed related collisions: reduction of 26.7%

 

[Speedo]

As long as school zones are properly and clearly marked (and most here are) then I have no problem with photo radar in those areas. But I can't say I'm in favour of it on 400-series highways. In many cases, someone doing 100 is actually creating havoc by failing to keep up with traffic. Personally, I'd like to see limits on those highways set at 90 in urban areas and 110 out in the country. Just my $0.02. ��

 

[GPIDEAL]

Photo radar will slow some down in the specific area where they are known to be. Same as the police having a rountine spot to catch the speeders. The fines for going 15 over in a 40 should be harsher than going 15 over in a 80.

For all those whining about this being a cash grab - you can really screw up that plan if you like. Don't speed and you don't have to pay. Speeding and other traffic violations are basically a voluntary tax. Follow the rules and you won't have to volunteer your $$$.

P.S. I am not the perfect driveer myself. I have volunteered some taxes over the years.

Not against photo radar in certain areas or red light cameras.

But the laws don't take into the conditions of the road, and if you speed a little on a highway, they shouldn't sit there like Gameboy said, shooting fish in a barrel. It's a money grab.

I don't mind photo radar if it catches you going above a certain limit beyond the speed limit.

 

[Frankfooter]

It would slow me down (if I was a speeder). And, to the people who continue to flout the law it provides a consistent revenue stream for hopefully public transit/bike infrastructure. Why use man power at an extremely high cost when it can be done much more cheaply with a camera?

This is the results in Edmonton since photo radar's been introduced:
Severe collisions (fatal and injury): reduction of 32.1%
Property Damage Only collisions: reduction of 28.7%
Total collisions: reduction of 27.7%
Speed related property damage only collisions: reduction of 27.3%
Speed related collisions: reduction of 26.7%

Its hard to argue with those numbers.

 

[gww]

Not against photo radar in certain areas or red light cameras.

But the laws don't take into the conditions of the road, and if you speed a little on a highway, they shouldn't sit there like Gameboy said, shooting fish in a barrel. It's a money grab.

I don't mind photo radar if it catches you going above a certain limit beyond the speed limit.

Even when they had the photo radar on the highways they never set them to catch you under 115-120. Besides it was common knowledge where they were most of the time - like tracking Santa. Even in school zones there will likely be a few km break (like allow 45-50 in a 40).

Simply don't speed and you don't need to pay the voluntary tax. Easier said than done but we all know the potential consequences.