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Photo Radar coming to Toronto?

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,095
21,986
113
You asked me for ways to save money and I told you. You just don't like the answers.

Let's look at it a different way.......

Let's compare Chicago and Toronto. Both are approximately the same size cities, large urban centers. Arguable which is a better town. (I'd say Toronto, but my buddy On the Bottom would argue Chicago because it's home to so many fortune 500 companies.)

Toronto Budget = 14.4 billion Canadian dollars

Chicago Budget = 8.7 billion American dollars (which up until a year or so ago had been more or less the same.)


Toronto number of municipal employees = 55,000 (seriously)

Chicago number of municipal employees = 32,000

Simply put, too many workers.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't begrudge them their salaries. You won't ever find me saying that. There's just way too many City of Toronto employees. You could lay off 20 percent of them and your average person would never even notice the difference.

Private sector companies lay off 10% of staff and no-one blinks an eye. If the city were to lay off 10% of staff, Lake Ontario would flood from all the tears.
I don't know if the Chicago comparison is fair.
Do they pay for transit, social services or other things that Toronto pays for?

The city does have a good breakdown of what they pay for and where they get their money.
http://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toro...1508170_Budget_Basics_Understanding-final.pdf

Cutting staff wouldn't necessarily do it. We could cut police, crimes are declining while budgets go up. Welfare will go up as the economy struggles. Cutting parks is possible, but they are already in shoddy shape.
Its not so easy, it looks like.
 

dirkd101

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2005
10,336
105
63
eastern frontier
I agree with JTK, there are far too many public sector workers and that is an issue that needs addressing.

While taxes were designed for the "hard services" that a municipality needs, downloading has caused these same municipalities to take on these services.
While taking on these same services, they've also taken on a lot more and more special interest groups. They all get a slice of the pie.
While people want budgets to be slashed, they forget that the price of things goes up with inflation. The only place to slash then is the work force or services. The choice is to look at what the municipality should be and should not be providing.

There are many departments withing the city that could be considered a "kingdom" of sorts and it is within these "kingdoms" that an outside auditor needs to look, come back with recommendations and those recommendations should be implemented. The use of an outside agency is recommended because the city should be at arms length from this, so as to be impartial. The Heads of these departments are obviously too involved with the day to day and the budgets they've asked for to be able to do this without being impartial as well.

On top of that. The office budgets of councilors and their associated spending habits should be the first area of concern. The junkets that they go on and all other trinkets that have a cost should be under intense scrutiny, curtailing bad spending from the top.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,489
11
38
You asked me for ways to save money and I told you. You just don't like the answers.

Let's look at it a different way.......

Let's compare Chicago and Toronto. Both are approximately the same size cities, large urban centers. Arguable which is a better town. (I'd say Toronto, but my buddy On the Bottom would argue Chicago because it's home to so many fortune 500 companies.)

Toronto Budget = 14.4 billion Canadian dollars

Chicago Budget = 8.7 billion American dollars (which up until a year or so ago had been more or less the same.)


Toronto number of municipal employees = 55,000 (seriously)

Chicago number of municipal employees = 32,000

Simply put, too many workers.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't begrudge them their salaries. You won't ever find me saying that. There's just way too many City of Toronto employees. You could lay off 20 percent of them and your average person would never even notice the difference.

Private sector companies lay off 10% of staff and no-one blinks an eye. If the city were to lay off 10% of staff, Lake Ontario would flood from all the tears.
Actually I asked you to name the services we should do without. But you're right, I don't like your ideas. As I said, you haven't named services to cut. In fact, you want them preserved for the taxpaying tightwads but delivered by workers you'd push closer to poverty levels. And you even want those workers prevented from bargaining for their wages.

You seem to have forgotten where you opened : "We have far too many government services…" You have yet to name one superfluous one, never mind many. And I've already pointed out that many of us have already noticed the unfilled staff jobs, and the declining productivity that has resulted, and that's without your systematic double decimation, just Ford's haphazard version. I'm sure there are superfluous workers, who superfluous managers are too incompetent to fire. Both find hidey-holes in every organization, I'll bet you could name a couple in your own shop. But on simple-minded 20% cuts as a solution you are simply wrong, as was Rob and innumerable pols before him. They make things worse, not better.

As to comparing apples and oranges, Chicago's crime and murder rates, their school ratings, poverty levels, social and race problems, are also very unlike Toronto's, and that's far from saying all else is the same.

None of this is to say that we cannot do things better and spend less, but that needs hard work from competent, dedicated people working full-time at it, not pat answers tossed off in a couple of sentences by spectators, or even worse by simpleton pols applying them across a complex, unamalgamated city as if it was a middle-school playground.

Look where switching the the boorish version of pol for the smoothie has gotten us so far.

Enough digression: Back to the topic at hand. While we wait for the year or two or six of disruptions to bring about all your savings — can we please build the DRL with them — we're still broke. Taking money from guys who can't manage to keep their cars under the posted limits might make the roads safer and most definitely will improve the balance sheet a bit. Where's the downside?
 
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