Phone records reveal San Bernardino Muslim cleric to be lying: he knew SB jihad murde

[fuji]

Wow... you really are a piece of work.

Pick one:

A) people attending gun shows who failed to turn in McVeigh are morally responsible for his crimes

B) people attending mosques the SB shooters also attended aren't morally responsible for their crimes

You can pick A or B, but you can't pick both, and you can't reject both.

You choose.

 

[destillat]

Pick one:

A) people attending gun shows who failed to turn in McVeigh are morally responsible for his crimes

B) people attending mosques the SB shooters also attended aren't morally responsible for their crimes

You can pick A or B, but you can't pick both, and you can't reject both.

You choose.

As always, you are comparing apples to bicycles...

We are currently in a world state where Muslims extremists are going ape-shit over the west.
20 years ago, there MAY have been a Christian fundamentalist movement, but a few isolated incidents does not come close to what we are dealing with now with the Muslim extremists.

So keep lying to try to save face and justify the willful ignorance (more like calculated deception) of the Muslim Cleric who WILLFULLY LIED TO FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS.

 

[Butler1000]

Fuji is just arguing now because he lost this one but won't admit it. He isn't capable of dropping it.

The argument of different times is quite valid. And that if there had been a series of right wing nuts committing terrorist acts then his argument would hold weight. But there wasn't. His was really the first.

I would also argue that since then there hasn't been an incident. And I believe it is because they are keeping an eye on them, and quietly building cases involving illegal activity to remove crazies before they act. You can pretty much guarantee that the crazies with run afoul of some sort of laws that can quietly put them away. And prevents the inevitable protests from other nuts by not making a big deal out of it.

The same tactic should be used on the Mosques. Sooner or later they will have weapons, explosives in possession. Bust em, max sentence. Next.

 

[fuji]

As always, you are comparing apples to bicycles...

We are currently in a world state where Muslims extremists are going ape-shit over the west.
20 years ago, there MAY have been a Christian fundamentalist movement, but a few isolated incidents does not come close to what we are dealing with now with the Muslim extremists.

So keep lying to try to save face and justify the willful ignorance (more like calculated deception) of the Muslim Cleric who WILLFULLY LIED TO FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS.

McVeigh killed 168 people and injured over 600. But he was a right winger so you don't think that is "ape shit", you probably just think he was misunderstood.

Point is you want to say those McVeigh shared his extremism with aren't culpable BECAUSE YOU LIKELY AGREE WITH THEM. But in identical circumstances you want moderate Muslims who had some passing contact to be blamed.

Fucking racist hypocrisy.

 

[fuji]

The argument of different times is quite valid. And that if there had been a series of right wing nuts committing terrorist acts then his argument would hold weight. But there wasn't. His was really the first. .

Wrong. There were a string of right wing terrorist attacks in the 80s leading up to McVeigh's attack.

I would also argue that since then there hasn't been an incident.
.

Wrong. There have been numerous attacks since then. You are just willfully blind to extremist right wing terrorism because you want to single out Muslims and the facts of this world make your a hypocrite.

Here is a summary from wiki, we can discuss in greater detail the incidents listed once you get over you willful blindness:



During the 1980s, more than 75 right-wing extremists were prosecuted in the United States for acts of terrorism, although they carried out only six attacks during the decade.[23] In 1983, Gordon Kahl, a Posse Comitatus activist, killed two federal marshals and was later killed by police. Also that year, the white nationalist revolutionary group The Order (also known as the Brüder Schweigen or Silent Brotherhood) robbed several banks and armored cars, as well as a sex shop;[24] bombed a theater and a synagogue; and murdered radio talk show host Alan Berg.[25][26]

The April 19, 1995 attack on the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma, by the right-wing extremists Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, which killed 168 people.[27] McVeigh stated it was retaliation for the government's actions in Ruby Ridge and Waco.[28] McVeigh attended Michigan militia group gun shows.[29][30]

Eric Rudolph executed a series of terrorist attacks between 1996 and 1998. He carried out 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing — which claimed two lives and injured 111 — with the aim of to cancelling the games, claiming they promoted global socialism.[31] Rudolph confessed to bombing an abortion clinic in Sandy Springs, an Atlanta suburb, on January 16, 1997; the Otherside Lounge, an Atlanta lesbian bar, on February 21, 1997, injuring five; and an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama on January 29, 1998, killing Birmingham police officer and part-time clinic security guard Robert Sanderson, and critically injuring nurse Emily Lyons.

According to data compiled by the New America Foundation, since the 2001 September 11 attacks, right-wing extremists have committed at least 19 lethal terrorist attacks in the United States, resulting in the deaths of 48 people.

 

[Butler1000]

Fuji.....

You are lumping several different groups with different aims together as one group.

You are linking abortion bombers, with white Supremist, with anti gov't, et al. They are all motivated by different ideology.

The islamists are are essentially motivated by one cause. To have all human beings converted to Islam, or dead.

That is the difference. I don't see the direct connection with eachother here. He'll do you think the anti abortion people would have approved of McVeigh considering the day care centre he took out?

They weren't this large organized movement like the islamists are. Not even close. Just individuals mostly. But as I've said before I believe there is a concerted effort to use Mosques as a Trojan horse to recruit and radicalize. And to use the internet as well. They use the same techniques to get them onside to commit act of violence.

I agree that the right wing nuts should be watched. And the Mosques too. This isn't about either or. Take em all down.

 

[fuji]

If you think that islamists are united and share a cause you really are ignorant. They spend as much time fighting each other as attacking us.

In any case you are backpedaling furiously now that it is obvious that there have been a whole string of right wing terrorist attacks. By the time McVeigh was spewing his extremist screeds at gun shows moderate people were well aware that extremists in the right could carry out terrorist attacks, it had been well publicized. Nobody was that naive. .

Yet the moderates did not turn him in. Why?

Let's look at the why:

Most likely they were in the exact same relation and situation as moderates at mosques: aware that the guy was extreme and maintaining a distance, not really aware of what he was doing, not really interested to get to know more about it either, just going about their business and limiting contact with the crazies to polite conversations.

That is the reality, its not like the moderates in either case are sitting there listening to details is terror plots, turning a blind eye, they are just going about their daily lives.

We all read canada-man's distasteful, extremist antifeminism but nobody goes running to the police to say he is the next Marc Lepine, but no doubt the next Marc Lepine WILL have spewed similar garbage to moderate people who ignored him: Not everybody with extremist views winds up committing violent acts, most just talk, most people whatever their beliefs just don't turn to violence, either at a mosque, on terb, or at the gun shows McVeigh attended. At the gun show period listened to McVeigh and gave him the benefit of the doubt, just as they have with many other extremists there who didn't go on to blow anybody up.

Saying that moderates at a gun show or a mosque should be blamed for the acts of extremists who pass through their organizations is too much: the moderates likely self limited their interactions with the extremists to pleasantries and didn't have any incriminating evidence, and didn't look for it either.

Were the gun show moderates to be blamed because that didn't dive in to find out how serious McVeigh was? Because instead of sitting down to investigate him, they just smiled, nodded, and moved on to the duck hunting booth? How is it different for a family taking their kids to the mosque who crossed paths with the SB shooters?

 

[lucky_blue]

It takes a special kind of stupid to come up with these types of moral equivalency arguments.

Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols killed 168 people.

Islamic terrorism - 270 million dead since Muhammad started the jihad.

 

[fuji]

It takes a special kind of stupid to come up with these types of moral equivalency arguments.

Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols killed 168 people.

Islamic terrorism - 270 million dead since Muhammad started the jihad.

All sputter, no content. It is morally equivalent. It is terrorism. Innocent people were killed by terrorists. Moderates who could have spoken out and prevented it did not.

It is the same, and your post here is just bitching that you don't like being caught as a hypocrite. You haven't got a single excuse for yourself.

If you want to go back to the days of Mohamed we can throw in all the millions killed by Christian violence in the crusades, the inquisition, and many many many many other religious wars, but that is stupid.

In the present day islamists have killed about ten times as many Americans as right wing extremists have, with both numbers being dominated by the two largest attacks: 9/11 and the Murrah building bombing.

While in some gruesome calculus that puts the islamists ahead, they are in the same general ballpark. They have both killed lots of people, they are both a serious ongoing threat.

 

[Butler1000]

If you think that islamists are united and share a cause you really are ignorant. They spend as much time fighting each other as attacking us.

In any case you are backpedaling furiously now that it is obvious that there have been a whole string of right wing terrorist attacks. By the time McVeigh was spewing his extremist screeds at gun shows moderate people were well aware that extremists in the right could carry out terrorist attacks, it had been well publicized. Nobody was that naive. .

Yet the moderates did not turn him in. Why?

Let's look at the why:

Most likely they were in the exact same relation and situation as moderates at mosques: aware that the guy was extreme and maintaining a distance, not really aware of what he was doing, not really interested to get to know more about it either, just going about their business and limiting contact with the crazies to polite conversations.

That is the reality, its not like the moderates in either case are sitting there listening to details is terror plots, turning a blind eye, they are just going about their daily lives.

We all read canada-man's distasteful, extremist antifeminism but nobody goes running to the police to say he is the next Marc Lepine, but no doubt the next Marc Lepine WILL have spewed similar garbage to moderate people who ignored him: Not everybody with extremist views winds up committing violent acts, most just talk, most people whatever their beliefs just don't turn to violence, either at a mosque, on terb, or at the gun shows McVeigh attended. At the gun show period listened to McVeigh and gave him the benefit of the doubt, just as they have with many other extremists there who didn't go on to blow anybody up.

Saying that moderates at a gun show or a mosque should be blamed for the acts of extremists who pass through their organizations is too much: the moderates likely self limited their interactions with the extremists to pleasantries and didn't have any incriminating evidence, and didn't look for it either.

Were the gun show moderates to be blamed because that didn't dive in to find out how serious McVeigh was? Because instead of sitting down to investigate him, they just smiled, nodded, and moved on to the duck hunting booth? How is it different for a family taking their kids to the mosque who crossed paths with the SB shooters?

Not blamed withou cause fuji. But thoroughly investigated.

The fact the cleric claimed he didn't know him when he was in contact with him on numerous occasions on a one on one level (38 text messages?) show he is a liar.

I think he knew. It needs to b investigated. His phone and computer looked at. Etc.

We aren't talking about strangers in the next booth here. But the intimate relationship that can develop between a lay person and a clergyman.

There is no backtracking or pedalling here. None. The Mosques can be used as a Trojan horse. Especially the ones directly funded by the Salafists. The Saudi funded ones.

The time fo political correctness is over in my opinion. Th variou religious organizations need to come clean. Whether they be Catholic or Muslim.

 

[fuji]

38 text messages is less communication than I have had with you on this thread. Seems believable that you would forget about such a minor interaction. If you said hundreds of text messages that might be something, but I exchanged 40+ text messages with lots of girls from tinder who I doubt now remember me.

Do you agree that if that is the extent of the relationship, something trivial like 38 text messages, that there is no obligation or expectation or even reasonable possibility that the moderates interacting with him at that level would have developed suspicions?

 

[Butler1000]

38 text messages is less communication than I have had with you on this thread. Seems believable that you would forget about such a minor interaction. If you said hundreds of text messages that might be something, but I exchanged 40+ text messages with lots of girls from tinder who I doubt now remember me.

Do you agree that if that is the extent of the relationship, something trivial like 38 text messages, that there is no obligation or expectation or even reasonable possibility that the moderates interacting with him at that level would have developed suspicions?

Again. It isn't about the moderates....its the Imam. Only him they are looking at.

Most of the attended at a mosque would be moderates. In some cases all. But I'm not convinced that this Imam isn't somehow culpable. That not only did he have some knowledge but that he may have helped. It will always be about the leadership for any religious organization.

The idiots at the Westboro Church are sheep being led. By a charismatic leader. So to could some at this mosque. Or are being directed to further radicalization by its leadership.

That's why there should be a thorough investigation. And anytime they get traffic of this nature the mosque the suspect attends should be looked at.