Pearson employees outraged at steep airport-link fares

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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SNC Lavalin had a go of the project for a bit, before the negotiations broke down. Now a consortium of 3 companies is building the thing.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rail-link-to-be-built-by-consortium-1.1058095
Not quite.

They (the consortium in your link) are designing and building only that portion of the track that actually goes into the airport to link the airport from the tracks that skirt the airport. (And the station at Pearson.)

The rail line from Union Station to the Airport utilizes the track right of way owned by GO Transit called "The Weston Subdivision". This is a former CN track that was a singular track leaving Union Station and heading parallel ot the Gardiner, then cutting northwest around Strachan Avenue and crosses King, Queen (at Dufferin), Brock Avenue (north of Queen), Lansdowne (south of Dundas), Bloor (at Perth), Dupont (at Annette) and so on out through Weston towards the airport. It was a very old right of way that CN owned. Over the years, the freight traffic dried up at the south end of the track to 0 and GO Transit became the major operator on the line - at least as it left Union Station, probably up to about the 401 around Carlingview. I think there is some small freight customers for CN up there. (Though GO only leased "running rights" from CN, they did not own the track.) Finally, maybe 10 years ago, maybe 15, I'm not sure, GO bought that portion of the Weston Subdivsion from CN. The Weston Subdivision GO calls its "Georgetown Line" because, wait for it, it runs to Georgetown. (But it's technically known as the Weston Subdivision. Georgetown (I guess) means more to commuters than Weston (which is now a part of Toronto anyway, but used to be its own little town) (GO also bought several other lines running out of Unions Station, but that's another thread.))

GO also bought TTR (Toronto Terminal Railways - which used to be owned by CN and CP jointly and was the owner of the tracks that came out of Union Station.) CN and CP have 0 interest in running or owning Union Station, or passengers as it's only a money pit for them.

Fast forward to when the decision was made to run trains from Union Station to the airport.

The "Weston Subdivision" is the best rail line for the job because it runs out of union station and north west and skirted the airport, then off westwards to Georgetown.

Metrolinx (the parent company I suppose you might say) of GO Transit (all owned by the Provincial Government) decided to build a service to run passengers from Union to Pearson. Originally, it was going to be called "Blue 22" (because the trains were to be blue and the trip was supposed to take 22 minutes) and it was going to be designed, built, operated, AND FINANCED by SNC Lavalin (truth be told, Lavalin would have just been the face behind Blue 22, there would have been a host of players, big and small that owned a far greater interest than Lavalin ever would have). However, the price tag vs. the potential returns didn't add up for Lavalin. (And the reason it didn't add up was because no-one, not even now, can say just how successful this rail link is going to be. Who knows how many people are going to take the damn thing? SNC Lavalin (corrupt bastards that they are) demanded assurances from the provincial government that the province would cover them if their business model didn't pan out. (In other words, the province would be on the hook.) So the province (rightly) told Lavalin to fuck off and that the province through GO Transit (now Metrolinx) would build the damn thing themselves.) The entire thing has now been renamed, "UP Express" I believe, as in Union Pearson Express.

The "air link" to which you are referring to is the final bit of track that spurs off from the Weston Subdivsion and actually goes right into the airport. That is the new concrete bridge you can see when you are entering the airport on the north side of the road leading to Terminal one. It's as cheap of a cheap design as you could get. That is being built by a consortium - Dufferin Construction, aka Holcim, and Aecon (owned by a Swiss bank I believe) and whoever else.

It's not the entire service.

That is Metrolinx (aka GO Transit) and the taxpayers are paying for it.

The Weston Sub had to be upgraded all the way from Union to Pearson. It is being increased from 1 track to 4 tracks. Where there were at grade crossings, now there are grade separations (bridges) and all bridges had to be widened to accommodate the 3 new tracks. The reason is that the Pearson train will need 2 dedicated tracks. One track from the airport and one track to the airport so that UP can run regardless of VIA, or GO, or CN. Nothing can get in the way of UP. The third track is needed for GO, the fourth for a combination of passing, GO, VIA and CN. (Though the trains can all switch from any of the 4 tracks at various turn out locations.)

The biggest bottle neck was "Toronto West Diamond" where the CN (now GO Transit) track (Weston Subdivsion) crossed at grade with the hugely busy CPR tracks (I believe it's the CPR North Toronto Subdivision, but it could be the Galt, I'm not 100 % sure). Freight gets priority over GO. Anyone who rode the GO in would tell you about stoppages at Toronto West Diamond (in the Junction) around Keele and Dundas while they waited in the GO Train for a freight to pass.

Obviously with the train to the airport running several times an hour, the diamond had to go so that the UP express could proceed without delays right from the airport to Union Station.
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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That is Metrolinx (aka GO Transit) and the taxpayers are paying for it.
That would be the issue: why are we paying for a project that only "business class executives" can afford and not the general public? They can pay for their own train / limo / helicopter service as far as I'm concerned. I have no problem if the private sector fully funds and charges whatever they want because that's makes business sense. The market will work out what price is appropriate.

This is not the case however and IMO, the project is still a public private partnership. The public's paying for a project that the private (select few people) can reap the benefits of.
 

Keebler Elf

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Aug 31, 2001
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While I agree it sounds like a ripoff catering to the business class, people thinking its going to be $5 are living in a fantasy world.

I do agree there should be a discount for airport employees but the reality is it wasn't built for them to make their commute easier.

I think around $20 seems reasonable. With a discount for monthly pass.
 

BlueLaser

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A magic unicorn transport system with unicorns that need neither tending or food and don't poop on the ground would also be cheaper than a Porter expansion, but it's not going to happen, so it's not a valid argument. And the same as true with making the rail free.

I flew out of the island the other day using my flight benefits. Wowsers. I saw 3 jets parked there and a Mitsubishi Mu-2. An Mu-2?!?! You need no more evidence that the jet ban is dumb. An Mu-2 is louder than wide body jets carrying hundreds of people. Sure, it has propellers, but they're the loudest things. The ferry is stupid though. Took me 40 mins to cross the channel.

If Pearson can't resolve their issues, like parking and cost of this new link, Porter will continue to do better. Frankly, anyone arguing against the island expansion has lost their mind. Especially if their argument is a noise one. Mu-2's for crying out loud! And obviously if you're rich enough, you already take your jets in there.

The whole point of the airport link should be speed and cost. Yes, Heathrow's is pricey, but it's so much faster than every alternative and takes you directly to their other fantastic public transportation systems that are dirt cheap. As far as I'm concerned, if the prices stay this high, the whole thing was a waste of money. An island expansion would've been better use for it.
 

explorerzip

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While I agree it sounds like a ripoff catering to the business class, people thinking its going to be $5 are living in a fantasy world.

I do agree there should be a discount for airport employees but the reality is it wasn't built for them to make their commute easier.

I think around $20 seems reasonable. With a discount for monthly pass.
Then public money should haven not been used to build it.
 

james t kirk

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I don't really think that it is being geared toward "executive businessmen" whatever the fuck that is.

Rich cats will just take a limo right from the terminal to their front door in Forrest Hill. Why the fuck would some Forrest Hill fat cat take the train to Union Station, then transfer onto the subway, then transfer onto a bus? That will take 2 hours.

Just catch a ride in limo and be at your front door in 35 to 45 minutes and submit your receipt for refund to the company.
 

james t kirk

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As to Heathrow, when I'm there, I just take the tube (which runs right into the airport).

Can't remember what it cost, but it wasn't a lot.

Toronto should have built the Eglinton subway. It was planned to extend it right into Pearson. That made the most sense, but it would cost more than UP.
 

GameBoy27

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Nov 23, 2004
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O’Hare International Airport to downtown via Chicago Transit Authority trains: 30 km, $5 U.S. ($5.44 Canadian)
Midway International Airport to downtown using Chicago Transit Authority trains: 17 km, $2.25 U.S. ($2.45 Canadian)
I always fly Porter to Midway then take the CTA train to downtown. It's a thing of beauty!
 

onthebottom

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I don't really think that it is being geared toward "executive businessmen" whatever the fuck that is.

Rich cats will just take a limo right from the terminal to their front door in Forrest Hill. Why the fuck would some Forrest Hill fat cat take the train to Union Station, then transfer onto the subway, then transfer onto a bus? That will take 2 hours.

Just catch a ride in limo and be at your front door in 35 to 45 minutes and submit your receipt for refund to the company.
Traveling to Toronto for work frequently I can say I'd use it, if you hit at rush hour the traffic into the CBD is crazy, I don't care about the cost because I'm not paying for it.
 

james t kirk

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The thing that really surprises me is that it isn't going to tie into the Dundas West Subway Station.

There is a GO Station just east of Dundas (on the other side of a mall) that will be (I think the only) a stop along the way from Pearson to Union.

There are NO PLANS as far as I'm aware to build any sort of tunnel between the GO Station and the Dundas West Subway Station. They are building a new GO Station, at Bloor, but basically you would just pile out onto Bloor Street and then have to walk the 2 or 3 blocks to Dundas West (which in the winter if you're slugging luggage will be a huge drag.)

I don't see how they don't build tunnels to connect UP to Dundas West and do a complete overhaul of Dundas West.

Really, for a city the size of Toronto our municipal leaders have 0 foresight when it comes to building a beautiful city. Everything is done on the cheap.
 

onthebottom

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The thing that really surprises me is that it isn't going to tie into the Dundas West Subway Station.

There is a GO Station just east of Dundas (on the other side of a mall) that will be (I think the only) a stop along the way from Pearson to Union.

There are NO PLANS as far as I'm aware to build any sort of tunnel between the GO Station and the Dundas West Subway Station. They are building a new GO Station, at Bloor, but basically you would just pile out onto Bloor Street and then have to walk the 2 or 3 blocks to Dundas West (which in the winter if you're slugging luggage will be a huge drag.)

I don't see how they don't build tunnels to connect UP to Dundas West and do a complete overhaul of Dundas West.

Really, for a city the size of Toronto our municipal leaders have 0 foresight when it comes to building a beautiful city. Everything is done on the cheap.
You need a regional transit plan....
 

explorerzip

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The thing that really surprises me is that it isn't going to tie into the Dundas West Subway Station.

There is a GO Station just east of Dundas (on the other side of a mall) that will be (I think the only) a stop along the way from Pearson to Union.

There are NO PLANS as far as I'm aware to build any sort of tunnel between the GO Station and the Dundas West Subway Station. They are building a new GO Station, at Bloor, but basically you would just pile out onto Bloor Street and then have to walk the 2 or 3 blocks to Dundas West (which in the winter if you're slugging luggage will be a huge drag.)

I don't see how they don't build tunnels to connect UP to Dundas West and do a complete overhaul of Dundas West.

Really, for a city the size of Toronto our municipal leaders have 0 foresight when it comes to building a beautiful city. Everything is done on the cheap.
Transfer points between transit agencies has always been a problem. Just look at the crap transfers between subway and GO stations. One of the dumbest ones has to be Long Branch where the streetcar stop is basically a block away from the GO station with no walkway in-between.
 

james t kirk

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You need a regional transit plan....
That's what the new "Metrolinx" is supposed to do.

Truth is, they are just another layer of provincial government since trying to get the TTC (or Mississauga Transit) to co-ordinate and co-operate, along with the City of Toronto and Mississauga is damn near impossible.

Pathetic even.

They all think inside their own silos and fuck everyone else.
 

james t kirk

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Part of the problem I have seen is the "fuck you" mentality that both the City of Toronto and GO Transit have towards each other.

Neither the City of Toronto Engineering Staff, nor GO Transit Engineering Staff EVER have the greater good in mind. They only think that they work for the City, or GO Transit and they have their own agenda, budget, timeline, etc. They behave like kids.

What we as a city are lacking is a guy (or girl) with true Municipal foresight and understanding. You need someone who says, "this is what will be best for the Citizens of Toronto and you both (City and GO Transit) are damn well going to work together and do it. Stop your bitching. Someone who wants to build a beautiful city with interesting and compelling architecture, public art, design, beauty, etc. Not just Stalingrad like function.
 
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Mister K

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Nov 21, 2006
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Metrolinx needs to get its act together! Total cost of a one way trip should be the equivalent of the same distance on the GO train lines. Anything more and they might as well forget it. If they price it out of the market, no one will ride on it anyway.

I swear to God, these people couldn't organize an orgy in a whorehouse!

It pisses me off no end when politicians from the federal, provincial and municipal levels of government start talking about transit. They have absolutely NO fucking idea how to run a railroad (thought I would throw that cliché out there).

The first place that they (politicians) need to start is for the feds to change the Act governing rail traffic which makes all passenger train traffic the priority. Next, the owners of various rail lines throughout the country need to be told that they MUST provide lines for transit projects, and that it is NOT an afterthought.

Then transit needs to be AFFORDABLE and AVAILABLE if they are really serious about trying to reduce vehicle traffic in favour of transit.
 

JackBurton

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I don't really think that it is being geared toward "executive businessmen" whatever the fuck that is.

Rich cats will just take a limo right from the terminal to their front door in Forrest Hill. Why the fuck would some Forrest Hill fat cat take the train to Union Station, then transfer onto the subway, then transfer onto a bus? That will take 2 hours.

Just catch a ride in limo and be at your front door in 35 to 45 minutes and submit your receipt for refund to the company.
It's not even for rich people. diamond taxi will send a town car for you and up to three people for a ride to the airport for $53. Split that two or three ways and there doesn't seem any sense to charge $20 for the rail to the airport, especially with the transfers
 

KBear

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Aug 17, 2001
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The underground tunnel to the island airport should be completed early next year. Would think a good percentage of the business travelers would fly out of the island airport if the city allows jet traffic.

...a cost comparable to the Toronto Airport Express bus, which costs about $27...

Was also thinking $20-30 for the UP train was too high, but if people are paying for $27 for a bus ride, which would be slow and unpredictable with traffic problems, people will pay the same for a train. Maybe the service is more targeted towards visiting tourists.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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...The ferry is stupid though. Took me 40 mins to cross the channel. ....
I've always found it to be right on schedule. I think the longest I've waited was 5 min. coming back to mainland. I would be happier with a pedestrian tunnel though.

As for the train, it would be nice if it was cheaper but based on the bus prices I was expecting $25 or so each way. Even if it was free I'd prefer the Island (and yes, I live along the flight path and the only planes I notice are from the air show).
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Metrolinx is completely out of touch. What's the point of building a taxpayer funded project then charging so much tat the average person can't afford to use it? Morons.
I assume you and explorerzip want the linmk to operate at a loss and have general tax revenues pay fort your trips to and from Pearson; did I mis yor post asking for taxes to be raised to cover this cushy option for you?

Somehow I'd have thought higher taxes to buy subways, streetcars buses and City-wide better transit for all should come first.
 
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