Panhandling in Toronto - new solution - Throw more MONEY at it

[train]

Point is. there's no solution to poverty, and homelessness is just the most abject kind. But if you do give a poor man real money instead of spare change, he doesn't have to clutter up the landscape sitting on a scrap of corrugated w/ his hand out. And if you help him w/ his health and social problems so he can maybe hold a job, you may find he doesn't need your help after awhile. 'Course someone else always will, but the alternatives are keep walking by, or use the Moss Park Method*.

*Kick 'em to death

The point was generally that the population has lost confidence in this City's ability to:

a) come up with a solution that works or is measurably more effective than what they are currently doing, and;

b) do it an efficient or cost effective manner.

I do agree with you about treating the root cause. Whether that's even possible on this scale is beyond my knowledge level on this topic. In the case of New York I recall reading stories about zero tolerence policies etc. This sounds less like treating a problem to eliminate it and more like forceably solving the problem by making it intolerable to live on the streets, at least those particular streets - if such a thing is possible

 

[tboy]

Well, there IS that old saying: give a man a fish, and he has lunch. Teach him to fish, and he eats everyday!

The root cause? Poor work ethic. EOS. Sure, there are some who have mental problems, and sure, there are some who do work occasionally. But the vast majority? Lazy good for nothing BUMS.

I find it SO fucking funny that guys like me, work hard, pay taxes, hire people when I need help, own my home, don't rip my customers off, society takes takes takes from me and if I want anything? I have to pay through the nose for it (health coverage/dental/housing/food).

But if I just threw it all away? Society would give give GIVE to me......

THAT is what's wrong.

Know how to solve the problem? Give them an ultimatum: clean up their act, start contributing, or die off. EOS.

Here's how you do it:
Know those subsidized apartments going up on dundas and parliment? Pull a homeless panhandler off the street. Say to them: here is one month's food, one month's rent free. In order to KEEP what we've given you your job is to clean every square inch of the block formed by dundas, parliment, river and (what's that first street south of queen?). If on friday night at 6 pm, I find ANY amount of trash, full waste bins, junk piled up in an alley, you're out.

We have thousands of square blocks and thousands of homeless.

I used to skate along the paths down by cherry beach. This homeless guy came up to me one day and asked for money. He said "I need $4.00 to buy more garbage bags" I said "wtf"?? He said "I clean this path 3 times a week and pointed to a pile of full bags over by one of the garbage cans. I then realized that the paths, and the brush on each side, were litter free. I gave him $5.00 so he'd have enough for a drink as well as his garbage bags. The next summer he was written up in the Sun....

Now THERE'S a guy, who is homeless, said to himself: I'm not a taker, I'm giving something back.....HE deserves support, not the freeloaders!

 

[oldjones]

Yeah there are guys who can see opportunities to be useful, and get paid for it, even among the homeless, like the guy who checks my BlueBin for returnable bottles and cans. But most of those folks are already not homeless, because they have that skill already.

In New York, as FOOTSNIFFER noted and under the proposed plan here, there's a recognition that it's the guys who never learned, or lost those skills that stay on the streets, and getting them sheltered, fed and coached and counselled—even perhaps if that were to be, "here, the next six blocks are your territory, keep 'em clean and the bed and three squares are yours as long as you do"—has more hope of results than giving them tickets they can't pay or hassling them to move to someone else's street.

But ya know, even if the plan's a huge success, there'll always be som who fall thru the cracks or just can't make it work for them. Didn't Jesus say, "the poor shall ye always have with you"? The real question is what we do when confronted by these unfortunates. Try to help, try to ignore, try to punish? The answer says more about us than we can ever say about them.

Glad you gave the guy that extra tboy

 

[tboy]

Thanks OJ, you see, I have NO problem helping those that help themselves. There was a story about a couple who lived in tent city down at the foot of the don. He held a full time job yet lived in a shack. He got up every morning, combed his hair, went to work but didn't make enough to afford an apartment here in Toronto. Now that guy deserves a subsidized apartment.

the biggest problem as I see it, is that NO one wants to make the tough choices regarding these sorts of problems. As I said, if someone wants to do something, but doesn't have the skill or whatever, then give them something to do to earn their keep. There are thousands of farmers, etc who could use a little extra hand now and again. Hell, put them to work? How DARE I suggest such a thing lol.....

Heck, when workfare first came out, I thought, hey, now they're on to something but alas, that fell by the wayside in no time due to politicians backing down.....

I mean it is fricken funny! People stuck in wheelchairs, blind, deaf, quadraplegics, ALL want to work and we made this city accessible for them (or mostly so) but here you have these able bodied goodfornothings BEGGING for handouts.....wtf???

Here's another good example. I used to use this company out in etobicoke. They employed mentally challenged kids/adults/teens. Whenever we had something menial to do (like putting labels on packages etc) we'd get them to quote. I also remembered something else: we used to need hardware kits put together. You know, four screws, four washers, 4 nuts, 2 brackers etc, they'd charge us a very reasonable amount and whoop, the people are busy providing a service and NOT looking for a handout. So, if someone with the iq of a 10 yr old can work, why can't they? CUZ THEY ARE LAZY and dont' WANT TO!!!!

 

[S.C. Joe]

guys like me, work hard, pay taxes, hire people when I need help, own my home, don't rip my customers off, society takes takes takes from me and if I want anything? I have to pay through the nose for it (health coverage/dental/housing/food).

But if I just threw it all away? Society would give give GIVE to me......

THAT is what's wrong.

It is wrong, its not correct either. Homeless people are not given their own home-thats why they are called "homeless", lol

Look at some of the homeless people teeth, then ask yourself what type of dental care do they get ? Mostly their tooth pulled when needed. They don't get crowns, implants-do they

What type of food do they get, not no New York strip steak with a glass of wine.

If you feel being homeless is so great, give it a try,lol

 

[tboy]

It is wrong, its not correct either. Homeless people are not given their own home-thats why they are called "homeless", lol

Look at some of the homeless people teeth, then ask yourself what type of dental care do they get ? Mostly their tooth pulled when needed. They don't get crowns, implants-do they

What type of food do they get, not no New York strip steak with a glass of wine.

If you feel being homeless is so great, give it a try,lol

Here's a couple of misnomers in your post:
1) If you read the article you would have read they are provided a place to sleep etc.
2) I work hard, pay my bills etc but I can't afford to get crowns, implants, etc. and as much as it embarrasses me to say it, I have 2 teeth that need work now and don't have the spare $$$ to pay for it. I may have to get them pulled.....
3) As for the food: I don't eat New York strip and wine.....I can't afford it because I am paying over 50% of what I earn in taxes!!!!

 

[Esco!]

I drove to the supermarket and had a bum come up to my car at the stoplights
Then at the Loblaws another bum came up to me at the entrance
Then at the Beer store yet another bum asked me for money

This is out of control, people.
I'm all for helping the homeless, but I'm not gonna support someone else's drug habit.

I got my own habit to worry about

 

[S.C. Joe]

I drove to the supermarket and had a bum come up to my car at the stoplights
Then at the Loblaws another bum came up to me at the entrance
Then at the Beer store yet another bum asked me for money

This is out of control, people.
I'm all for helping the homeless, but I'm not gonna support someone else's drug habit.

I got my own habit to worry about

I have learn to walk with my head down while in Toronto. I did have 1 bum YELL at me after I just gave him a quarter. I YELL back, "thats all I can give you now"

But to put up with it everyday must stink.