Ottawa says 60% of vehicle sales must be electric by 2030

[Frankfooter]

you are sadly mistaken if you think EVs would be good for the planet or the economy
the mining for the materials required would increases dramatically
increasing the cost of personal transportation will add to the current inflationary problem and exclude many from participating

The oil industry is still lying to you, larue.

Gaming Google: Oil firms use search ads to greenwash, study says

Google is selling oil firms valuable digital real estate that they use to downplay their role in climate change, despite the search engine giant pledging it would stop taking money for ads that counter the scientific consensus on global warming, a new report shows.

www.reuters.com

SHOCKER: Big Oil caught lying to voters in signature drive to reverse drilling ban near schools, homes

People being paid to gather signatures for a California referendum to reverse a state law banning drilling near schools, homes and hospitals are using lies to lure unsuspecting residents to sign the petition, according to an investigation by the Associated Press.

www.ewg.org

 

[danmand]

Relax. If you buy a gas or diesel car before 2030, you will not have to use an EV car for at least 10 years, and probably even 15 years.
That means that most posters in the political forum will never have a problem with EV cars.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Is there something wrong with aspiring to something that is good for the planet and the economy?

I'm not sure everyone would characterize the increase in slave labour and children forced to work in mines as "good for the planet and the economy." This description is probably a good example of white privilege.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Konrad Yakabuski has an excellent column in the Globe and Mail that is a must-read. It explains how the electric-vehicle mandates will make Canada very dependent on China.

Opinion: Electric-vehicle mandates will make us more dependent than ever on China

North American producers remain light-years behind Asian competitors that dominate supply chains for critical minerals and batteries

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[basketcase]

When the government starts to dictate the sales targets for specific products to business it is no longer a fee market economy.

Like governments dictating standards for medical products, ingredients for food products, and safety for commercial products?

God damn any government that demands car manufacturers include seatbelts.

 

[james t kirk]

It will depend on the technology and the price. If the engineers at the auto companies can come up with an electric car that can obtain a full charge in 5 minutes which will give 5 hours of driving range in all weather AND the price is the same as an ICE vehicle, people will buy them.

But if they can't deliver that, people will not buy them.

Simple as that. At the current time, it is physically impossible to accomplish that. It may be impossible no matter what. Some things just aren't possible, no matter how much the buffoons in Ottawa legislate it. They don't seem to understand physics, which isn't surprising given that physics is a tough subject to study that requires brains.

And I won't even get into the fact that the electrical grid in Ontario doesn't have the capacity to support that number of electrical vehicles. (And by grid I mean the transmission system - the wires, the substations, the transformers on the streets, the electrical services to the houses.). The infrastructure isn't there and will not be there any time soon. I've read that to upgrade it will cost into the trillions of dollars. But there's that reality downer again

 

[toguy5252]

I'm not sure everyone would characterize the increase in slave labour and children forced to work in mines as "good for the planet and the economy." This description is probably a good example of white privilege.

Is your objection to this that the vehicles would be made by slaves? well at least it is not based upon a denial of science which is a start. So JT is proposing that electric cars be made by slaves? Where about would these slave camps ? In Saskatchewan? And China is not the only source of lithium.

And you may wish to speak to all the salves working the the Tesla factories.

 

[bazokajoe]

It's highly unlikely I would ever buy a EV vehicle and a hybrid would also be unlikely to be parked in my driveway. At my age buying an ICE vehicle won't be an issue.
If I can't buy the ICE vehicle I want I'll just pick another model or buy the ICE version before they stop making them.

 

[Ref]

And I won't even get into the fact that the electrical grid in Ontario doesn't have the capacity to support that number of electrical vehicles. (And by grid I mean the transmission system - the wires, the substations, the transformers on the streets, the electrical services to the houses.). The infrastructure isn't there and will not be there any time soon. I've read that to upgrade it will cost into the trillions of dollars. But there's that reality downer again

I am sure that the cost of charging the vehicle will have a large amount of taxes applied to it to cover the cost of the electrical upgrades (not to mention replacing the cash cow of tax revenue from gas sales).

EV's will not be cheaper to run. They will probably be much more expensive when all is said and done.

 

[Frankfooter]

I am sure that the cost of charging the vehicle will have a large amount of taxes applied to it to cover the cost of the electrical upgrades (not to mention replacing the cash cow of tax revenue from gas sales).

EV's will not be cheaper to run. They will probably be much more expensive when all is said and done.

They already are cheaper to run.
And if governments end oil subsidies and spend that on renewables it'll be that much cheaper.

 

[danmand]

It's highly unlikely I would ever buy a EV vehicle and a hybrid would also be unlikely to be parked in my driveway. At my age buying an ICE vehicle won't be an issue.
If I can't buy the ICE vehicle I want I'll just pick another model or buy the ICE version before they stop making them.

I agree.

For me, it is a simple case of economics and convenience. I could mostly do fine with an EV, but once or twice a year I go for a really long drive, and there the ICE is much more convenient.

I don't really care what the power for the vehicle comes from. In my car I push a button and i have power. Same for an EV.
(20 years ago, when we had carburetors I would have jumped at an EV. )

 

[toguy5252]

I am sure that the cost of charging the vehicle will have a large amount of taxes applied to it to cover the cost of the electrical upgrades (not to mention replacing the cash cow of tax revenue from gas sales).

EV's will not be cheaper to run. They will probably be much more expensive when all is said and done.

No one I have heard has said that driving an EV would result in a cheaper sticker price. But the opponents just refuse to take into account the harm to the enviornment and the cost of climate related damage.

 

[bazokajoe]

No one I have heard has said that driving an EV would result in a cheaper sticker price. But the opponents just refuse to take into account the harm to the enviornment and the cost of climate related damage.

Reality, as much as you don't like it, is people will do what's right for them especially when it comes to finances.

 

[toguy5252]

Reality, as much as you don't like it, is people will do what's right for them especially when it comes to finances.

You are undoubtedly correct. And that is why sometimes governments have to intervene.

 

[Butler1000]

Is your objection to this that the vehicles would be made by slaves? well at least it is not based upon a denial of science which is a start. So JT is proposing that electric cars be made by slaves? Where about would these slave camps ? In Saskatchewan? And China is not the only source of lithium.

And you may wish to speak to all the salves working the the Tesla factories.

The mining in Africa for rare earth metals sure is. Why do you think China is there with Belt and Road? And has occupied Tibet? The mountains are filled with them.

Don't be naive.

 

[bazokajoe]

You are undoubtedly correct. And that is why sometimes governments have to intervene.

This debate can go on forever. Both sides have legit points.

 

[Ref]

They already are cheaper to run.
And if governments end oil subsidies and spend that on renewables it'll be that much cheaper.

They are currently less expensive to run, but not necessarily cheaper to own.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/evs-cheaper-to-own-gas-vehicles/

As long as the governments do not jack up the price of electricity, EV 's make sense.

Government rhetoric aside, the buying public will determine when and what to buy. After all, most people will know when it makes sense to purchase and EV or ICE.

 

[Moviefan-2]

And China is not the only source of lithium.

China will be the overwhelmingly dominant source for the lithium and other needed materials if the Trudeau government proceeds with its electric-vehicle mandates.

Red Flags for Forced Labor Found in China’s Car Battery Supply Chain (Published 2022)

Ties to potentially coercive labor practices could prove a problem for an industry that is heavily dependent on China, once a new law barring Xinjiang products goes into effect.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Moviefan-2]

It will depend on the technology and the price. If the engineers at the auto companies can come up with an electric car that can obtain a full charge in 5 minutes which will give 5 hours of driving range in all weather AND the price is the same as an ICE vehicle, people will buy them.

Exactly.

Things that are "good for the economy" don't require government mandates. In fact, government attempts to run the economy are pretty much destined to fail.

EV sales will increase when EVs are affordable and reliable. Right now, even Environment Minister Stephen Guilbeault's own ministry doesn't want to buy them.

GUNTER: Feds not buying into their own idea for electric vehicles

The federal government reported it had purchased 2,899 vehicles in the past two years, of which just 137 were electric.

torontosun.com

 

[Frankfooter]

As long as the governments do not jack up the price of electricity, EV 's make sense.

Government rhetoric aside, the buying public will determine when and what to buy. After all, most people will know when it makes sense to purchase and EV or ICE.

As long as Putin and MBS don't jack up the price of oil.
Government incentives and oil subsidies play a big part in what we buy.