Ottawa Gets Tough on Music Sharing

[joebear]

TV shows can be taped legally because someone has paid to do public broadcasting of it. (commercials) You can legally tape something off the radio because again its public broadcasting with the rights paid for.

Pulling a song off the net that someone copied from a private CD is illegal and if you read the fine print on the CD it does state that you cannot legally broadcast it or copy it. Bars, radiostations, media blanks all pay royalities to the music industry because the music is being broadcasted or copied.

TV shows can be taped legally not because someone paid the public broadcaster to do it (ie commercials) but because of the USSC in its decision of the Sony Betamax case.

You can legally tape a show because of what is called fair use. The use of copyrighted item for your own private use. The VCR has a substantial non infringing use in addition to the concept of fair use which is why the Sony won at the USSC.

In Canada it is legal to download music, a Federal Court decision released last May. The Copyright board charges a tax on certain blank media and not all blank media and pays that money to the music industry. The music industry is fighting on how to pay out the money to its members and I believe the money is still sitting there.

 

[gypsy121]

In order to borrow a book at a library you have to show a license, which is your library card. You dont get to keep it either, it has to be returned.

WHAT??!! I am supposed to be returning these??

 

[Bud Plug]

It isn't currently against the law to upload/download songs or burn your downloaded songs to disk. That's why amendments to the Copyright Act are required in order for the record companies to do anything about it.

However, expending time and effort to change the legislation misses the point and will not achieve anything for the record industry.

For one thing, people have always, and will always share music. Part of what makes music special is that it can be shared. It will never be illegal to invite your friends over to listen to your new CD. It won't matter whether your friends show up in person, or pay a "virtual visit". If burning is the issue, peer-to-peer streaming will simply take the place of the current upload/download systems.

Secondly, the industry should honestly evaluate what impact peer-to-peer sharing has on the industry. They haven't. They are operating on the assumption that if people can't share, they will buy. That isn't correct. People download for various reasons that would never translate into increased sales were sharing outlawed:

• To replace material they already own on other media or to replace defective CDs that were purchased. [ BTW, if I'm really only buying a license, how come Sam's won't replace my CD if it gets scratched?
• To listen to bizarre novelty songs they would never buy
• To get songs for the purpose of ripping clips to be used for amusement, windows system sounds, etc.
• To conveniently create mixed CDs of material they already own without having to go through the extra step of ripping their own CDs or vinyl
• To obtain material that is not widely distributed in stores, no longer published, or is not available in their particular market

Add to these the consideration that many people who burn cannot afford to buy nearly as much as they are burning, and the prospect that banning sharing will lead to more revenue quickly reveals itself as a mere pipedream.

Further, to echo other posters, it's pretty clear that if burning is costing anyone a significant amount of sales, it's the artists who are already wildly successful, not the struggling marginal artists.

If the record industry wants to increase its sales, why don't they try reducing their prices and producing a better product, just like every other business?!

 

[Garrett]

If the record industry wants to increase its sales, why don't they try reducing their prices and producing a better product, just like every other business?!

I do not agree with any of your statements, and this one is particularly ridiculous. Let's face it, any price is too high compared to free. As for quality, I think most music is underpriced. How much would I pay for Kind of Blue... the RCA Living Stereo reissues.... etc... the fact I can pick them up for ten bucks now is fricking amazing.

Some basic facts:
o if it is so easy to sell for less, how come noone has broken the model. People bitch iTunes is overpriced at a buck a song.
o this goes way beyond music. People are stealing anything they can. Software. Movies. *Anything*
o I know people with Terabytes of storage and multiple feeds. They download more than they can ever consume. I think it is a sickness for many.
o Peer to peer can be handled via signature techniques and managing providers. If the NSA can do it, anyone can
o Sound quality does not matter any more. MP3's sound shitty. Most people listen on shitty portable systems. Compression rules. People will give up quality for quantity.
o I think there has been a decline in musicianship and content over the past 60 years. I think a lot of it is related to lack of development based on market forces and disregard for quality.
o the cost of music has moved to live shows. Most concerts are a bad joke, and ticket prices are insane.
o record stores have been gutted. I can now only find the stuff I like online. It is pretty clear this is having an impact on small retailers.

I applaud those who actually admit it is theft. The ones who try to make it something different well, let me steal from *your* house, impact *your* career, because it is essentially the same thing.

 

[Bud Plug]

I do not agree with any of your statements, and this one is particularly ridiculous. Let's face it, any price is too high compared to free. As for quality, I think most music is underpriced. How much would I pay for Kind of Blue... the RCA Living Stereo reissues.... etc... the fact I can pick them up for ten bucks now is fricking amazing.

Some basic facts:
o if it is so easy to sell for less, how come noone has broken the model. People bitch iTunes is overpriced at a buck a song.
o this goes way beyond music. People are stealing anything they can. Software. Movies. *Anything*
o I know people with Terabytes of storage and multiple feeds. They download more than they can ever consume. I think it is a sickness for many.
o Peer to peer can be handled via signature techniques and managing providers. If the NSA can do it, anyone can
o Sound quality does not matter any more. MP3's sound shitty. Most people listen on shitty portable systems. Compression rules. People will give up quality for quantity.
o I think there has been a decline in musicianship and content over the past 60 years. I think a lot of it is related to lack of development based on market forces and disregard for quality.
o the cost of music has moved to live shows. Most concerts are a bad joke, and ticket prices are insane.
o record stores have been gutted. I can now only find the stuff I like online. It is pretty clear this is having an impact on small retailers.

I applaud those who actually admit it is theft. The ones who try to make it something different well, let me steal from *your* house, impact *your* career, because it is essentially the same thing.

You said you disagree with me, but then you agreed with practically everything I said! BTW, its not amazing to me that re-issues should be dirt cheap, after all, the artists that made the original recordings got paid squat for them and the production cost of CDs is minimal.

Itunes is overpriced because a complete CD costs more than buying in the store and you don't get the packaging, artwork, or media for your $, simple as that!

Record companies are greedy. That explains most of what has happened and it isn't very hard to understand.

 

[Garrett]

You said you disagree with me, but then you agreed with practically everything I said! BTW, its not amazing to me that re-issues should be dirt cheap, after all the artists that made the original recordings got paid squat for them and the production cost of CDs is minimal.

We disagree on pricing, artist development, boundaries of peer to peer, business model, and accountability. I could go on... As for the reissues, the RCA ones are hi rez reissues with great packaging. Ten bucks for a hi rez cd... never mind the full three channels... a great deal.

Itunes is overpriced because a complete CD costs more than buying in the store and you don't get the packaging, artwork, or media for your $, simple as that!

So now you want it all. You are getting the single you want. You want the album and packaging.. spring for that. As I said... any price will be too high... they have a pricing model that meets all your needs, you just do not want to pay. You will then steal it with some half assed justification.

Record companies are greedy. That explains most of what has happened and it isn't very hard to understand.

Of course, they are there to generate revenue for shareholders and employees. The problem is, everyone is greedy and want something for nothing. Most people will steal if they can get away with it (and who knows how many would rape... murder... and who knows what else if they knew they would never be charged/prosecuted). Downloading simply appeals to the worst in all of us... and the fact that people can substantiate it only feeds the fire.

 

[phogNphriction]

Smokescreen, imo: the access to your private property
and personal information that is obtained by this ruse
is the real goal here. Damn Marketeers and their digital
search warrants.

Remember: the medium is the message.

We should all become private broadcasters- then we
would pay only royalties and that would be the end of
it- like Muchmusic in the early days of music vids...
Royalties= about 5% of revenues usually...

Also, you really have to distinguish between theft- 'removal
of property with the intent to permanently deprive the lawful
owner of the use and enjoyment thereof' and piracy- 'unlawful
reproduction of copyrighted material'- you can compare them,
but don't confuse them just because the record-industry ran an
ad campaign confusing them- that was their attempt at moral
suasion in the absence of a coherent rational argument.
Luckily the judges have more respect for definitions in law
and have persisted in defining and circumscibing theft and
piracy as vastly different categories of offence.

Garrett, you are confused, but keep it to youself- theft is theft
and piracy is piracy and although they may be related, they are
NOT THE SAME, otherwise there would be no issue.

 

[Hard Idle]

It doesn't affect me personally - I find downloaded music sounds crappy - and I hardly ever list to disposable music which I don't deem worth owning.

However the recording industry has only itself to blame for the contempt they are treated with. The industry used the advent of CD's to jack up the price of recordings and eliminate cheap singles LP's which were more suited to disposable junk like Brittany Spears or NSYNC. Until recently, kids had to buy a full priced CD to get the one or two songs they're ever going to listen to.

Secondly, it is the industry who undercut artists in fields like Jazz, Classical & Blues by flooding the market with old reissues - often where the rights had expired - sold mid-price but at higher margin, at the expense of of current artists. This, along with their promotion of poor sounding DVD's and general decline in the quality of recorded sound has fostered an indifference to sound quality which which makes downloading even more attractive. I've noticed that many CD's & DVD's released in recent years don't even sport the Hi-Fi decal, some are not even true <stereo>, not do they claim to be.

Last year one of the daily papers in Toronto reported on how distributors had subsidised the record store chains to keep prices above market value by literally paying them off for lost sales! Seeing as CD is now ubiquitous and borders on obsolete, it is incredible that the price of new releases hasn't tumbled to the $10 level. Most labels get their discs form the same 3rd World sweatshops as the Pirate-burned ones. Why 10 times the price?

Like the NHL & NHLPA, the artists & labels are too late to realize that the true value of their product is much lower than the artificial levels they have set - especially the disposable shlock for teen counsumption. The challenge is to produce more music people wish to own and hear properly. And quiit charging premium prices for a production process which now available on any home computer.

 

[Bud Plug]

Last year one of the daily papers in Toronto reported on how distributors had subsidised the record store chains to keep prices above market value by literally paying them off for lost sales! Seeing as CD is now ubiquitous and borders on obsolete, it is incredible that the price of new releases hasn't tumbled to the $10 level. Most labels get their discs form the same 3rd World sweatshops as the Pirate-burned ones. Why 10 times the price?

Like the NHL & NHLPA, the artists & labels are too late to realize that the true value of their product is much lower than the artificial levels they have set - especially the disposable shlock for teen counsumption. The challenge is to produce more music people wish to own and hear properly. And quiit charging premium prices for a production process which now available on any home computer.

I agree with you completely. The dominant record companies are controlled by people who do not have a good sense of what people want to buy. They'd rather work on marketing campaigns to sell you what they have than find out what you'd want. They also believe that they can fix prices. They will not change their tactics, or lose control of the industry to other more "consumer-friendly" record companies until they fail financially. So, the sooner that happens, the better.

 

[Bud Plug]

So now you want it all. You are getting the single you want. You want the album and packaging.. spring for that. As I said... any price will be too high... they have a pricing model that meets all your needs, you just do not want to pay. You will then steal it with some half assed justification.

Yes, if I'm paying for it all, I want it all. The technology exists to deliver it all. It's actually pretty simple:

1. Charge about 50 cents per song if you buy the whole CD. The discounted price would reflect what the record company saves in distribution, marketing, and packaging costs. The record company would make the same money and the consumer would save some. Seems fair that the consumer should enjoy the bulk of the savings, given that the record company did not buy my computer for me and doesn't pay for my internet access.

2. Make the album art/liner notes etc available as a .pdf download for free. That way customers could assemble a CD package which approximates the retail version.

3. Offer streaming of full CD tracks so customers can audition CDs, just like in the store.

These are such simple ideas, you really have to ask why record companies haven't done this already. Could it be that they don't want online distribution to be predominant distribution scheme?

 

[shakenbake]

Then they need to do the same thing with blank CD's and DVD's because someone will find a way around this legislation real quick.

The tax that is already charged and colelcted on BLANK media is SUPPOSED to go to the artists for royalty payment! To me, they want to do some doubel-dipping on us!