Ontario Leaders Debate

[omegaphallic]

The leaders debate is tonight at 6:30pm.

Lets get ready to Buuuuuuumble!

Hehe anyway with the electorate as vilitile as they are right now this debate will be critical. Remember the Orange Crush started after Jack trounced Iggy in the english debate and Gilles in the french debate. Like that one the knock out punches may not be obvious right away but by election day will expose themselves if they occur.

Horwath has to clean the air after all the lies and misinformation the liberal have spread about the NDP which maybe surpressing some of her vote. She'll also want to take advange of the fact that her platform is the only one that explains how she plans on paying for it, while the others are relying on digits far roser then the liberals own budget projections suggest. Also her transit plan will net her far more votes in Urban ridings then her cuts to the HST. Also she'll have to defend herself against attemps to by Dalton to marginalize the NDP by defining the election as a horse race between the libs and cons.

Tim Hudak will have to explain why the total cost of his platform is nearly as much as the NDP and Liberals COMBINED at 5.995 billion to the NDPs 3.352 biillion and Liberals 3.575 billion.

The Liberal have more at stake then media commentors understand. People have said that the debate is important for Hudak and Horwath because they are unknown compared to Dalton, but here's the thing its important Dalton because its important to his foes. If one or both excell given the weaknesses of Dalton's vote his votes could be siphoned off on both sides. Also Dalton will have to explain his dishonest and cowardly attacks on the NDP vs fake third parties and the like.

Also both Hudak and Dalton will have to prove that corporate tax cuts create jobs when all the evidence shows they do not. Also he may try to attack the NDP via the Bob Rae government, which will be like shooting yourself in the fucking balls.

See not only does the fact that Rae leads the libs federally leading to blow back, but Rae is likely to defend himself which means the fed libs will have to defend the Rae government as which means big divisions in the liberals before then election day.

 

[omegaphallic]

Did anyone else watch or listen to the debate?

On knockout punches the closest was a wierd three way where Hudak goofed up brought forgiegn students which setup Dalton to attack Hudak as anti immigrant again, Hudak paniaced and flipped out briefly then Andrea swooped in and stole Dalton's thunder by first making them look like squabbling boys and then giving her plan that was open to everyone..

Over all I still think Hudak did better then I expected, unfortunitily for him the way the debate evolved it benifited Andrea more. Like when he attacked Dalton for attacking Andrea's plans for tax increases given his own history of lying about tax increases to which Dalton in turn accused Hudak of planning to increase property taxes. Add the fact that niether managed to refute the fact that ten years and twenty billion dollars later the promised jobs from corporate tax cuts have not materialized. This lead to a win for Andrea on this issue, none of her foes managed to scratch her on it as they basically blocked each others blows and failed to counter her counter punch.

I will say at times, especially earlier in the debate Andrea and Hudak worked well to unbalance Dalton's cool demeaner, but again it was more to Andrea advanage.

Another odd moment was when Hudak quoted one of Andrea's attacks on Dalton in a vary complimentary way, which made her look good.

I'd say Andrea won, with unexpected assists from Hudak at the price for Hudak of coming off weak. Dalton came in second, but not his best debate proformance.

Something to note is that I heard the debate before seeing any of it because of a tech glitch so I discovered something interesting. Andrea has a very sexy voice. Like she'd totally rock phone sex voice. See you looks like she could be your mom not in a unattractive way, but not a MILF either and that influences your perceptions of her speaking, but take the visauls away and just leave her voice and you'll find its very sexy.

 

[Anynym]

You're referring to Hudak's mention of Dalton's program to give Ontario-taxpayer funded scholarships exclusively to foreign students. Progressives believe that those who actually live in Ontario should be equally qualified to apply; McGuinty's Liberals have barred them from applying.

Clearly, Hudak won the debate, with Horwath a very close second.

McGuinty, not even sure if he really did or didn't cancel the power plant in Mississauga South to rescue his vulnerable Liberal candidates, lost - BIG TIME.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Love the fact that the NDP and PC partisans claim "their candidate" won, without giving a real reason why. Sad and typical.

No one won that shitshow of a debate. BO-ring.

 

[omegaphallic]

You're referring to Hudak's mention of Dalton's program to give Ontario-taxpayer funded scholarships exclusively to foreign students. Progressives believe that those who actually live in Ontario should be equally qualified to apply; McGuinty's Liberals have barred them from applying.

Clearly, Hudak won the debate, with Horwath a very close second.

McGuinty, not even sure if he really did or didn't cancel the power plant in Mississauga South to rescue his vulnerable Liberal candidates, lost - BIG TIME.

Hudak's mistake wasn't trying to open that up all, it was not being careful enough in his presentation not set himself up to be tarred as xenophobic. Andrea may her point without falling into that trap, plus ended up looking like the grown up.


As for why I believe andrea one 1) She came off the most likable but admitted that's subjective 2) the main point of attack against on corporate taxes she managed to be beat by combination of mangled attacks on the part of Hudak and Dalton and excellent points on the history of the tax cuts for corporations ment she won that key point. 3) On healthcare both Hudak and Dalton refused to rule out priviation of healthcare where as Andrea did so expictedly, Dalton may pay for that later 4) Hudak did make some good points, but that usually just set Horwath up for the zigger/sound bite. She did nail Hudak good on the two cents effency thing which he pulled out of his ass and he can't explain. 5 her education story was heart warming and will boost her appeal hugely. 6 Horwath and Hudak managed to undermined Dalton's crediblity on Job creation by pointing out job loses and point out the poor quality of the ones created (admitedly cred to Hudak for that one) 6 A flash poll done by the globe shows Horwath winning over most of the undecideds with 67 percent having an improved impression of her more then both her oppentants combined. An eleven percent jump in healthcare and jumps in other policy areas. Slaughtered her foes in likablity. The poll does say 33 percent say the libs won, but that actually a drop from those who expected him to win while Horwath picked up fifthteen point to go up to 29. Hudak was at 25.

Still at the end of the day people intially though Harper won the debates and now its obvious Jack won. You've got to expect an incumancy advantage from both foes primarily targetting Dalton.

Still at the end of the day we wont know for certain who won until the election has played out.

 

[Possum Trot]

Which debate were you watching ??

Hudak didn't come across as being a capable leader at all!

Now there's an unbiased opinion if I ever saw one - lol. Didn't watch it, don't care since no party actually does what they promise so why bother. Based on performance the Liberals deserve to be fired. Don't much care if they are replaced by the NDP or Conservatives as long as we get across the point that incompetence and selling out to special interest groups cannot be tolerated.

 

[fuji]

It sounds like the debate didn't change anybody's mind. If you were a PC supporter before the debate, you're still one. If you were an NDP supporter before the debate, you're still one. If you were a Liberal supporter before the debate, you're still one.

Guess we will have to wait for the opinion polls to come out to be sure but that's my sense of things based on anecdotal conversations here and elsewhere.

 

[Damondean]

Did anyone else think Andrea was hot?

 

[omegaphallic]

Time will tell who won by the amount of voters swayed. Still in the above poll 35 percent thought Andrea had the best policy and ideas vs 32 for Dalton and 27 for Hudak.

CP24 had Horwath leading at 42 percent over Dalton and Hudak when 700 people were asked who won the debate.

Alot of Journalists are saying the debate was boring and that no gains were made by anyone, but many of those same people said the same thing about the federal debates. We saw how that turned out.

See the thing they are missing is they are so focused on shifting partisans like who shifts from what party to what party that they forget that there is a large group of undecided and while Horwath may have skimmed off some of her foes support last night, I believe the bulk of her points were earned with undecided voters. While no knock out punch I do believe the debate will be a game changer.

 

[omegaphallic]

Did anyone else think Andrea was hot?

I though her voice was sexy but I didn't have the visual. I guess I times she gives off a kind of MILF vibe.

 

[good to go]

I hate to say it but i will have to vote for the NDP, i would never vote for the Fiberals and with the PC being in Federal power i cannot give them a clean sweep. Plus just watching Hudak i cannot trust him any more than Dillweed.

 

[omegaphallic]

I hate to say it but i will have to vote for the NDP, i would never vote for the Fiberals and with the PC being in Federal power i cannot give them a clean sweep. Plus just watching Hudak i cannot trust him any more than Dillweed.

Whose Dillweed?

 

[basketcase]

Am I one of the few who takes into account who my rep would be?

Policy wise, I could see supporting aspects of the Liberals or the NDP platforms but having met both candidates in my riding, no way will the NDPer get my vote. Something about him is lest trustworthy than other politicians (and that's saying a lot).

 

[Rockslinger]

At least one Ontario NDP candidate is trying to ride the coattails of Jack Layton. I think each candidate has to create his or her own legacy and not rest on the laurels of someone else's.

 

[FatOne]

Am I one of the few who takes into account who my rep would be?

Why bother.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_Whip_(Canada)

 

[ursusminor]

Why bother.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_Whip_(Canada)

Theres a young independent guy in my riding, named Mike Harris if you can believe it! Im not sure who to vote for, I'm on the fence between the Libs and Tories but dont trust either McGuinty or Hudak and their party whips. I'd like to see a candidate who really stands up for the community and not the party line, just like it was at Confederation when being in a party meant you shared the same philosophy but had the freedom to vote on the good a law would do for the community.
What do you think, can Independents make a difference?

 

[FatOne]

Theres a young independent guy in my riding, named Mike Harris if you can believe it! Im not sure who to vote for, I'm on the fence between the Libs and Tories but dont trust either McGuinty or Hudak and their party whips. I'd like to see a candidate who really stands up for the community and not the party line, just like it was at Confederation when being in a party meant you shared the same philosophy but had the freedom to vote on the good a law would do for the community.
What do you think, can Independents make a difference?

An independent can't make a difference if they can't get in.

The Americans have guys who are into local issues. Rotten. Give me party dicipline any day, it cuts down a lot on the pork. There is already way too much "fuck everyone else, gimmie gimmie gimmie" in politics.

As for my riding I have a choice among the big three of MacDonald, MacDonald and McDonnel. Plus a Donnelly and a guy with a german last name. Gotta love diversity.

 

[basketcase]

Horwath seems ready for the political big time. She's unafraid to let truth get in the way of her campaign.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...pital-has-a-bone-to-pick-with-horwath-s-story

 

[moviefan]

According to the Toronto Star's Robert Benzie (via Twitter), Horwath said this morning that "there's 'more sausages' in politics because women (are) repulsed by the smears."

 

[FOOTSNIFFER]

Hudak's program is a joke. His party's talking points are like reading a bad cato institute press release..."reduce taxes, miracle of private sector will magically transform our prospects, blah blah blah.

I was hoping however that he might sway me with the way he comes across, that maybe he's inspire some trust in me...but no dice. He's not ready yet to confer the responsibility of the premiership of our $600 billion economy. Dalton's awful, but he's the only choice we've got in this election. On the plus side for him, he has under his doleful watch recovered most of the jobs lost in the last recession (of course, the pop. and labour force has grown since 2007, so that's not solved our underemployment problem).