Ontario landlord must pay Muslim couple $12,000 for not removing shoes.

[frankcastle]

ok lets put this in perspective since you haven't done that.
For real problems - DUI first offense costs what?
Littering - costs what?
Soliciting for sex costs what?
Theft under 1k costs what?
Yelling bomb in a mosque costs what?

12000 is retarded, and its a big f you to Muslilms looking to rent.

in my religion its ok to walk on any mat, so oh well.

Where is the transcript?

I copied the stuff below.... it says that 5 to 15K is quite common. Sorry the formatting sucks. Keep in mind the fine was also 6000 x 2 because two people were affected. So technically he got a fine on the low side but was stupid enough to go out of his way to step on the rights of two people. Came across the 6000 x 2 when I was skimming old articles looking for the shovel incident.

What types of remedies can the Tribunal order?
There are three types of remedies the Tribunal can order if discrimination is found:
Financial compensation to the Applicant (often called “damages”)
Non-financial measures that benefit the Applicant
Measures to address the broader public interest (called “public interest remedies”)

Financial compensation
What types of financial compensation can I ask for?
The Tribunal can order two types of financial compensation:
Money to compensate you generally for the loss of the right to be free from discrimination, including the insult to your dignity (also known as “general damages”)
Money to compensate you for any special financial costs that you experienced because of the discrimination (also known as “special damages”)
What are general damages?
You are entitled to be free from discrimination. General damages are intended to financially compensate you for injury to your dignity, feelings, and self-respect as a result of the discrimination.
What are special damages?
Special damages are intended to compensate you for money that you have lost or been forced to spend because of the discrimination. This type of financial remedy is meant to put you back in the financial position you would have been in if the discrimination had not occurred in the first place.
You can claim different types of special damages depending on whether the discrimination happened in employment, in housing, or in another area that is covered by the Code. Every case is different. Ask yourself if you have had to pay for something, or lost something with a monetary value, because of the discrimination. If so, you can include that cost in the financial remedy that you ask for in your application.
Examples of special damages if you experienced discrimination at work
In an application claiming workplace discrimination, you might claim financial compensation if you experienced any of the following:
Lost income/wages (i.e. if you were terminated, based on a discriminatory reason, and had difficulty finding another job)
Lost benefits (i.e. long term disability, health/drug benefits, etc.)
Lost bonuses or a commission that you would have made if you had not been discriminated against
The difference in income between your old job (where you were discriminated against) and your new job (that you found after the discrimination)
Loss of statutory employment-related benefits (such as maternity benefits under the Employment Insurance Act)
Out of pocket expenses (such as job search costs or relocation expenses)
Examples of special damages if you experienced discrimination in housing
In an application claiming discrimination in housing, you might ask for financial compensation to cover the following costs:
The rental deposit that you paid to the landlord who discriminated against you
Your moving expenses if you were forced to move because of discrimination and/or harassment
The difference in rent between your previous rental unit (where you were discriminated against or harassed) and your new housing (that you found after the discrimination) if your new rent is higher
How much financial compensation should I ask for?
You should fill in section 10 of the application form with as many details as possible about how much money you want, including how you calculated that amount. To decide how much money to claim as your financial remedy, you will want to add up the amount for general damages and for special damages.
How much money should I claim for my experience of discrimination (general damages)?
It is hard to put a dollar amount on the hurt you have experienced because of discrimination. The Tribunal will compare your facts with the facts in other decisions and consider the amount of awards in similar cases. Some of the factors considered by the Tribunal in making a decision about how much to award include:
The impact that the discrimination had on you
How badly you were treated
Whether the discrimination happened on one occasion or over a long period of time
Although there is technically no limit on the amount of damages that could be awarded, over the past few years the Tribunal has generally ordered between $5,000 and $15,000 as general damages for the hurt and loss of dignity associated with the experience of discrimination.
How much money should I claim for my specific costs or expenses (special damages)?
It is useful to consider examples. If you lost your job because of discrimination, you should calculate the amount of earned income that you lost each week that you were unemployed. For example, if you earned $10 per hour and you were off work for 10 weeks, you would ask for:
$10 per hour x 35 hours per week x 10 weeks = $3,500
If you are still unemployed, you will not be able to give a final figure. You can fill in the form by asking for lost wages at the rate of $10 per hour x 35 hours per week.
Or, if a landlord refused to rent an apartment to you for a discriminatory reason, and as a result, you had to rent a more expensive apartment, you can ask for the difference in rent for a reasonable period of time. If you were evicted for a discriminatory reason, you could also claim your moving costs.
For example, if the difference in rent is $200 per month, you could ask for:
$200 X 12 months = $2,400
Moving truck costs = $840.00
Sometimes it is difficult to include a final and exact figure in the application form. It may be too early for you to know the full financial impact of the discrimination. In that case, you can complete the form by telling the Tribunal the basis for your special damages claim.
For example, you can include on the application form the monthly amount of your lost wages or your increased rent. Write on the application form that you are seeking financial compensation in that monthly amount from the date of the discrimination to the date on which the Tribunal makes a decision on your application.

 

[FAST]

Only to people who believe the law would not have worked this way if the plaintiff was of another race or religion.

OH,...you mean like black,...???

FAST

 

[frankcastle]

OH,...you mean like black,...???

FAST

Plaintiff
A plaintiff (Π in legal shorthand) is the party who initiates a lawsuit (also known as an action) before a court. By doing so, the plaintiff seeks a legal remedy, and if successful, the court will issue judgment in favor of the plaintiff and make the appropriate court order (e.g., an order for damages).

 

[fuji]

Apparently being equally bigoted towards all religions makes a difference to some.

He's only bigoted against other people's religion, not his own athiest religion. Most religious bigots are like that: they are bigoted against every religion but their own.

 

[fuji]

ok lets put this in perspective since you haven't done that.
For real problems - DUI first offense costs what?
Littering - costs what?
Soliciting for sex costs what?
Theft under 1k costs what?
Yelling bomb in a mosque costs what?

12000 is retarded, and its a big f you to Muslilms looking to rent.

in my religion its ok to walk on any mat, so oh well.

Where is the transcript?

You can practice YOUR religion in YOUR home. Buy all the mats you want and walk on them. If you want to, build yourself a Christian altar in your own home and take a dump on it. But don't go into other people's homes and walk on their carpet if they tell you not to, and don't go taking a dump on the altar at someone else's church.

 

[Butler1000]

Can people appeal the decision of this court?

Is there proof that these panels are as crappy as people on this forum claim. I mean I'm sure we can find rulings we think are stupid on all levels right up to supreme court. But that doesn't automatically mean those courts are also unreliable as well.

Nope. And they are filled with appointees who's agenda is social justice. Whatever that means day to day.

The point is the people on these commissions aren't qualified legal experts judging impartially on specific laws. They are glorified PC tribunals without real defined laws and precedence to guide them. Instead it's about what they FEEL is right. And that does not belong in a fair legal system.

They are solely about applying certain social constructs determined by the members of said tribunals on a case by case basis, and not by elected. Officials applying the will of the people to creating and modifying laws fairly applied to all.

Quite simply under this Star Chambers not all "Men" are created equal......

 

[Butler1000]

Here's another post proving the need for hefty fines. This guy also would ignore it if the fine was small. People like you only understand when it hurts.

Really. Because I think the HRC's are poorly run without a foundation mandate that can be applied fairly you say this?

Keep giving up your freedom's Fuji........and I'll keep fighting for both of ours.

 

[FAST]

Plaintiff
A plaintiff (Π in legal shorthand) is the party who initiates a lawsuit (also known as an action) before a court. By doing so, the plaintiff seeks a legal remedy, and if successful, the court will issue judgment in favor of the plaintiff and make the appropriate court order (e.g., an order for damages).

I know what plaintiff means dic,...you had to bring up race,...following in some ones foot steps ?,...the person fined,...was guess what,...BLACK.

 

[fuji]

Really. Because I think the HRC's are poorly run without a foundation mandate that can be applied fairly you say this?

Keep giving up your freedom's Fuji........and I'll keep fighting for both of ours.

Here's another post demonstrating that the usual suspects here would violate the human rights code without a large fine like this to keep them in line.

 

[eternalbachelor]

Here's another post demonstrating that the usual suspects here would violate the human rights code without a large fine like this to keep them in line.

High fines are very nice but as somebody mentioned above, I wonder how many prospective landlords will now decide to not rent out at all or at least to not rent to tenants wearing religious clothing. I consider myself open minded and reasonable etc but no fucking way I would rent to tenants wearing head scarves, or other religious clothing for that matter. It is now clear that they are higher maintenance then agnostics/atheists, so fuck them. They may enjoy their high fines now.

 

[Butler1000]

Here's another post demonstrating that the usual suspects here would violate the human rights code without a large fine like this to keep them in line.

Um no, I don't run afoul of this things because I'm fearful of a fine. I it's because I'm a good person.

I suppose someone like you needs these things but I don't.

 

[frankcastle]

I know what plaintiff means dic,...you had to bring up race,...following in some ones foot steps ?,...the person fined,...was guess what,...BLACK.

keep your hard on for fuji away from me.

let me slow down and explain things for you.....
.Phil was concerned that the fine would result in anti Muslim sentiments.

to which I replied that the type of person who would feel that way as a result of the judgement probably believes that had the plaintiff been a different race and or religion it would have gone differently.

in other words that type of person is likely bigoted and or racist. how else would you explain a person who would have negative views on Muslims as a result if this case?

I am aware the landlord is black so whatever point you were trying to make has nothing to do with my points.

 

[frankcastle]

High fines are very nice but as somebody mentioned above, I wonder how many prospective landlords will now decide to not rent out at all or at least to not rent to tenants wearing religious clothing. I consider myself open minded and reasonable etc but no fucking way I would rent to tenants wearing head scarves, or other religious clothing for that matter. It is now clear that they are higher maintenance then agnostics/atheists, so fuck them. They may enjoy their high fines now.

depends on what landlords value more keeping their shoes on or monthly rent.

let's not lose sight that the request to take of shoes is not difficult. I guarenteed all of you do it when you visit people's homes for the first time and wait for instructions or ask for permission to keep shoes on. similarly calling ahead is not a big deal.

no one is suggesting you need to sacrifice a baby while doing a rain dance.

 

[FAST]

keep your hard on for fuji away from me.

let me slow down and explain things for you.....
.Phil was concerned that the fine would result in anti Muslim sentiments.

to which I replied that the type of person who would feel that way as a result of the judgement probably believes that had the plaintiff been a different race and or religion it would have gone differently.

in other words that type of person is likely bigoted and or racist. how else would you explain a person who would have negative views on Muslims as a result if this case?

I am aware the landlord is black so whatever point you were trying to make has nothing to do with my points.

1st you brought up racism,...when none was mentioned,...except for the usual "that's racist" screamer,...then you bring up fuji,...which just happens to be the same,...keep them both out,...and you will be ok.

So now you are saying that you and the star chamber would look at this differently if the guy charged was white,...???

For once and for all,...this has NOTHING to do with race,...

And as far me having "a hard on for fuji",...nope,...I don't swing that way.

 

[frankcastle]

Size of fine..........

The tenants asked for 20K and the court arrived at 12K

For those that read all the details there are numerous previous cases cited which the tenants used to ask for 10K x 2 and many cases cited by the judge to arrive at 6K x2

So my point is that the decision on the size of the fine was not arbitrary since prior cases were used as benchmarks. The fine is actually on the low side when compared to the cases cited.

Landlord's credibility............

"the respondent’s testimony was inconsistent with the documentary evidence on several key points. He also showed an inclination to tailor his evidence when these inconsistencies were pointed out to him. In addition, when pressed in cross-examination, the respondent made claims on key points at the hearing that were not included in his Response or witness statement. All of the above factors undermine the credibility of his testimony in this case."


so what we have here is a guy who was given a fine that is not out of the ordinary nor arbitrary. he was shown to not be credible in court. and this could have been avoided by observing common courtesies that people in canada do for each other on a regular basis.... shoes of entering homes and calling before coming over.

did the star chamber manufacture his inconsistancies?

was the star chamber incorrect in deciding that the requests did not represent undue hardship on the landlord?

 

[italianguy74]

Donate to help this landlord who is a Nigerian migrant with this ridiculous fine.

https://www.therebel.media/help_john_donation

 

[SuperCharge]

Donate to help this landlord who is a Nigerian migrant with this ridiculous fine.

https://www.therebel.media/help_john_donation

The Sharia fine lmao. :thumb:

 

[colt]

There is more than one "law" in Ontario. The Human Rights Code is of equal weight to the Residential Tenancies Act, 2006. The HRC requires reasonable efforts to be made to accomodate religious beliefs, practices, etc. As an impartial tribunal has concluded he did not, in fact, comply with the law.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Do the proceeds of the $12K fine go directly to the victim, or to the Human Rights tribunal??

 

[oldjones]

ok lets put this in perspective since you haven't done that.
For real problems - DUI first offense costs what?
Littering - costs what?
Soliciting for sex costs what?
Theft under 1k costs what?
Yelling bomb in a mosque costs what?

12000 is retarded, and its a big f you to Muslilms looking to rent.

in my religion its ok to walk on any mat, so oh well.

Where is the transcript?

Do please read the judgment. I found it easiy by Googling, and posted the link twice a few pages ago. Here it is again. Then you can specifically counter the reasons the Tribunal laid out for coming to their number. Just one for starters, since you raised DUI first offence: This was multiple offences against two parties and the judgment was actually $6,000 total for each of two persons against whom he committed the various offences.

Frankly, for me discussing the amount is way too much like GBS and the Actress to be interesting: "We've settled what sort of woman you are, we're just haggling over the price".