Ontario Bankruptcy

[JohnLarue]

All that hot air boils down to your BELIEF that the Federal government should not restrict oil exports, no matter how harmful they become too the economy.

Your BELIEF leads to economic ruin. I don't agree with your BELIEF.

There is a difference between economic understanding and what you believe
You believe you are smarter than the markets and can control them & that makes you a fool

As for the past thirty years how about you go chart oil exports, currency volatility, and non oil industrial investment. See if you can spot a trend.

Oh great , now you want to use chart theory to determine economic policy
How about you go chart the cost of Ontario manufacturing vs. the costs for emerging markets and against more traditional competitors
You will see more than a trend , you will see the real problem. Clear as day

then ask yourself if penalizing the oil producers for Ontarios lack of productivity improvements is still your best recommendation

Is the petro dollar the only factor? No. But it is the primary factor that the government has control of.

Again with the control issues
When will you learn that you cannot control markets ?
Is it your over inflated opinion of yourself?
Or are you too stupid to understand that no one can micro manage an economy?

There are lots of factors that the government has no control over, we are just discussing those that the government influences.

Not that it really matters, however I do not recall specific boundaries for discussion being defined and agreed to
Not only is this thread not limited to discussing those factors that the government influences, if you (once again) check the thread title it is about Ontario's eventual bankruptcy.

Do not try and ring fence issues out of convenience
Nice try

Only an idiot would suggest that Ontario's pending bankruptcy is due to the Petrodollar
The real issue is the lack of financial responsibility of the Ont Liberals who have spent and borrowed excessively.
These are factors the provincial govt has control over, yet did not apply any self control

Shame on you for trying to defect blame based solely upon your political ideology. (The hallmark of a fool)
There are time's when one must objectively view issues and admit to yourself you have backed the wrong horse
Personally I tend to stay quite on such issues (if my horse falters) , and I certainly do not turn to the petrodollar as a lame substitute for piss poor provincial fiscal management

Time to realize your intellectual shortcomings Fuji and awake to the fact you are not smart enough to recognize the root of the problem, despite believing (incorrectly) you have a solution.
I suspect that solving the problem is less of priority for you, while the chance to apply control over others is far more important for your messed up ego

 

[fuji]

So you don't dispute that rising oil exports cause rising exchange rate volatility.

And you don't dispute that exchange rate volatility harms industry.

(It has also caused labor market volatility that has also harmed industry).

Yet you still prattle.

 

[JohnLarue]

So you don't dispute that rising oil exports cause rising exchange rate volatility.

And you don't dispute that exchange rate volatility harms industry.

(It has also caused labor market volatility that has also harmed industry).

Yet you still prattle.

It is not the root cause for Ontario's loss of manufacturing nor the root cause of Ontario's future bankruptcy
Yet you want to attempt to control this volatility. (again with the need to control)
despite the fact that it is a world market price driven by factors well beyond your control & apparently beyond your comprehension

You are the ultimate idiot & have no business thinking you should formulate policy

 

[fuji]

Ontario isn't going to go bankrupt, kook. Even with the damage Harper has done to Ontario's economy, we're not going to go bankrupt.

And if you think there is a single "root cause" of any economic situation you are a complete moron. There are multiple reasons why manufacturing in Ontario is in trouble, and one of the major reasons is the adverse impact of a currency and labour market that is dominated by a single, volatile commodity. Other reasons are things like the growth of emerging markets. Certainly stupid unions are a factor. But denying that the oil industry stuck a knife into Ontario industry is just total kook territory.

Stop hyperventilating about Ontario having any sort of impending bankruptcy, and stop denying the impact that a volatile currency and a ridiculous oil driven labour shortage and wage bubble had on Ontario industry.

 

[onthebottom]

So , if a high loonie is responsible for Ontarios debt, can we assume a cheap loonie will result in budget surpluses....

 

[Moviefan-2]

So , if a high loonie is responsible for Ontarios debt, can we assume a cheap loonie will result in budget surpluses....

Since the government is once again toying with asset sales, I think you can safely assume the answer is no.

 

[JohnLarue]

Ontario isn't going to go bankrupt, kook. Even with the damage Harper has done to Ontario's economy, we're not going to go bankrupt.

Time will tell
41% debt to GDP with rates at an all time low.
Please tell what will happen when rates move up to 5-8%

And if you think there is a single "root cause" of any economic situation you are a complete moron.

The primary reason is they are uncompetitive

There are multiple reasons why manufacturing in Ontario is in trouble, and one of the major reasons is the adverse impact of a currency and labour market that is dominated by a single, volatile commodity.

There maybe multiple secondary considerations of which currency is way down on the list
Labor market ?? No trouble finding former auto employees in Ontario

Other reasons are things like the growth of emerging markets. Certainly stupid unions are a factor

.
i.e., they are uncompetitive

But denying that the oil industry stuck a knife into Ontario industry is just total kook territory.

That is pure bullshit and the logic of a moron
For two decades Ontario manufacturing was told to invest and drive productivity improvements by both PC & liberal governments. They chose to hide behind a weak Lonnie instead.
Ontario Industry screwed themselves (particularly the unions) by refusing to adapt

What western Canada did was to act in their best interest and the best interest of their shareholders as every business man should.
I doubt if any oilman were ringing their hands in glee saying, "now we get a chance to screw over the Ontario factories"
You have an over active imagination

Stop hyperventilating about Ontario having any sort of impending bankruptcy

41% debt to GDP??
What was California's before the shit hit the fan ( lower than 41%)

stop denying the impact that a volatile currency and a ridiculous oil driven labour shortage and wage bubble had on Ontario industry.

its tough not to deny fantasy
Again a volatile currency is nothing relative to how uncompetitive Ontario's manufacturing sector is vs. alternatives.

labour shortage ??? In Feb 2014 Ont Unemployment was 6.9% still above the 2008 rate
We still have not fully recovered and you say there is a labor shortage in Ont?
There are thousands of former auto workers / factory workers who have not worked for years or who are now in retail making 1/2 to 2/3s of what they use to earn.
There is no labor shortage in Ontario (WTF)

STOP Sniffing the glue
You do not have a loose clue what you speak of

 

[Polaris]

Ontario isn't going to go bankrupt, kook. Even with the damage Harper has done to Ontario's economy, we're not going to go bankrupt.

And if you think there is a single "root cause" of any economic situation you are a complete moron. There are multiple reasons why manufacturing in Ontario is in trouble, and one of the major reasons is the adverse impact of a currency and labour market that is dominated by a single, volatile commodity. Other reasons are things like the growth of emerging markets. Certainly stupid unions are a factor. But denying that the oil industry stuck a knife into Ontario industry is just total kook territory.

Stop hyperventilating about Ontario having any sort of impending bankruptcy, and stop denying the impact that a volatile currency and a ridiculous oil driven labour shortage and wage bubble had on Ontario industry.

Yeah, but fuji, if the Ontario government was a business, like GM for example, it is bankrupt.

It would need a loan or some kind of kickback from the government to stay afloat operating. That is what is what GM needed. That is what Ontario needs today. Government Motors did go bankrupt.

If you find the word bankrupt troublesome, well surely Ontario is insolvent, without loans and money from the feds who got it from a place like Alberta. In business, when you are insolvent, and can't get another loan or line of credit, that is gonzo too.

Ontario's problems are not based on the ups and downs of the oil industry. If it was, then how come Ontario is not economic booming now with the oil price collapse?

In short, show how Ontario industry, is collarated to the oil industy in Alberta. The so-called Dutch disease, is something a politician would talk about but I do not believe it applies in Canada as a whole.

Canada is a big country. Canada is a big country with regional economies. For example, the Golden Horseshoe region would have a lot more trade with the USA than Alberta. What would the oil price do to expand or contract this economic activity? None, unless you're a politician, then they just talking.

If anyone in Canada has the Dutch disease because of high oil prices, then it would be Alberta.

Lets face it, I do not remember anyone building a pipeline in to Etobicoke or a refinery downtown. If they did, then maybe this Dutch disease is creeping into the GTA.

 

[JohnLarue]

So , if a high loonie is responsible for Ontarios debt, can we assume a cheap loonie will result in budget surpluses....

If you follow the logic of a fool (Fuji)
he was going to control the Lonnie for Ontario's benefit (what a joke)