yes, and you do your best to kill the moose in a humane way, and try not to waste the kill
On the topic of Shark Fin Soup again... these images might change your attitude =o
- Thread starter LKD
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So it would be ok if they just killed the sharks?This thread is about a number of communities in the Pacific, the Carribean and the Indian ocean, who butchering fish for soup and throwing them back in the water alive, let alone in numbers that cannot sustain the population. Let's at least try and stay on the same planet.
It actually would be okay. They would need to figure out what to do with the rest of shark's body since you cannot just dump it in the water anymore. Dealing with the logistics of that would naturally slow the pace of killing down.So it would be ok if they just killed the sharks?
Well, in that case, why don't they just make shark sausage? What if the Chinese are thinking about the eco system by stating that the sharks will be eaten by other fish? It would make perfect sense. Especially since all the animal parts in north america that is not wanted goes to become fertilizer.It actually would be okay. They would need to figure out what to do with the rest of shark's body since you cannot just dump it in the water anymore. Dealing with the logistics of that would naturally slow the pace of killing down.
A lot of places have figured out that a live shark is worth a lot more to their local economy than a dead one. Places like Honduras (http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/honduras-creates-a-shark-sanctuary/) have seen some positive results already. All it takes is some small, but consistent steps in the right direction.
I don't know. Why don't they indeed? We learned just enough about sharks to know that they are apex predators and no other fish eat them. Maybe we can also figure out how to farm them - should not be much more expensive than catching them in the wild.Well, in that case, why don't they just make shark sausage? What if the Chinese are thinking about the eco system by stating that the sharks will be eaten by other fish? It would make perfect sense. Especially since all the animal parts in north america that is not wanted goes to become fertilizer.
The comparison between shark finning and industrial farming methods just isn't valid. Farming certainly isn't perfect, but for the most part the slaughter is done humanely. However, even if it were not, it still isn't a fair comparison...
Cattle and pigs are not being killed to the point of extinction. Sharks are. Cattle and pigs are not critical parts of an ecosystem. Sharks are. Cattle and pigs are captive-bred for food. Virtually 100% of the animal is used. Sharks are wild and when caught, they are mutilated while alive as a rule, and tossed back into the ocean to die.
A more valid comparison to shark finning would be if you were to illegally run a baited trap line for many, many miles, through Algonquin Park. Check it once a week or so and you would find all manner of things trapped, mostly dead. Then say all you wanted was wolf feet. So cut the feet off of the wolves and if they are still alive, let them go. So for the sake of a few wolf feet, you would kill most of the wolves as well as bear, beavers, otters, and all kinds of other stuff.
The only reason shark finning exists is because a bunch of greedy criminals are supplying a ridiculous commodity to an ignorant and/or uncaring client base. They get away with it because for the most part, the hunt is unseen. Can you imagine the public uproar if the example I used was actually happening?
So the purpose of the City's ban is entirely symbolic. And I am OK with that.
Rob Stewart (the guy who made Sharkwater) is a friend of mine and he is a changed man after making that film.
Cattle and pigs are not being killed to the point of extinction. Sharks are. Cattle and pigs are not critical parts of an ecosystem. Sharks are. Cattle and pigs are captive-bred for food. Virtually 100% of the animal is used. Sharks are wild and when caught, they are mutilated while alive as a rule, and tossed back into the ocean to die.
A more valid comparison to shark finning would be if you were to illegally run a baited trap line for many, many miles, through Algonquin Park. Check it once a week or so and you would find all manner of things trapped, mostly dead. Then say all you wanted was wolf feet. So cut the feet off of the wolves and if they are still alive, let them go. So for the sake of a few wolf feet, you would kill most of the wolves as well as bear, beavers, otters, and all kinds of other stuff.
The only reason shark finning exists is because a bunch of greedy criminals are supplying a ridiculous commodity to an ignorant and/or uncaring client base. They get away with it because for the most part, the hunt is unseen. Can you imagine the public uproar if the example I used was actually happening?
So the purpose of the City's ban is entirely symbolic. And I am OK with that.
Rob Stewart (the guy who made Sharkwater) is a friend of mine and he is a changed man after making that film.
So, if your background was Hindu, would you state "fuck everyone that eats cow".fuck everybody that eats shark fin soup.
That's a great analogy and is definitely more accurate representation of what is really happening. Well said! Here's a bit of info on how sharks benefit a specific economy of the Canary Islands - http://www.neweconomics.org/press-releases/sharks-are-good-for-coastal-communitiesThe comparison between shark finning and industrial farming methods just isn't valid. Farming certainly isn't perfect, but for the most part the slaughter is done humanely. However, even if it were not, it still isn't a fair comparison...
Cattle and pigs are not being killed to the point of extinction. Sharks are. Cattle and pigs are not critical parts of an ecosystem. Sharks are. Cattle and pigs are captive-bred for food. Virtually 100% of the animal is used. Sharks are wild and when caught, they are mutilated while alive as a rule, and tossed back into the ocean to die.
A more valid comparison to shark finning would be if you were to illegally run a baited trap line for many, many miles, through Algonquin Park. Check it once a week or so and you would find all manner of things trapped, mostly dead. Then say all you wanted was wolf feet. So cut the feet off of the wolves and if they are still alive, let them go. So for the sake of a few wolf feet, you would kill most of the wolves as well as bear, beavers, otters, and all kinds of other stuff.
The only reason shark finning exists is because a bunch of greedy criminals are supplying a ridiculous commodity to an ignorant and/or uncaring client base. They get away with it because for the most part, the hunt is unseen. Can you imagine the public uproar if the example I used was actually happening?
So the purpose of the City's ban is entirely symbolic. And I am OK with that.
Rob Stewart (the guy who made Sharkwater) is a friend of mine and he is a changed man after making that film.
Beyond the fact that it is mostly one "race" that is the entire market for shark fins, there is no truth to this argument. I love animals. I spend a fair bit of time photographing sharks and I know them NOT to be at all like they are portrayed. They are truly amazing creatures that have survived for eons. And yet we are whipping them out for a fucking bowl of soup.Either you're ok with how humans treat animals, or you're not. Just picking and choosing your causes based on racial hatred is not right.
Also, while I am a card-carrying member of PETA, I also eat meat. What I am REALLY against is cruelty to animals of any sort.
Would you say it takes a fair bit of time to find them first? Most people don't realize that the ocean is not full of sharks. You're very lucky if you see at least one from the distance on every 10th dive.Beyond the fact that it is mostly one "race" that is the entire market for shark fins, there is no truth to this argument. I love animals. I spend a fair bit of time photographing sharks and I know them NOT to be at all like they are portrayed. They are truly amazing creatures that have survived for eons. And yet we are whipping them out for a fucking bowl of soup.
Also, while I am a card-carrying member of PETA, I also eat meat. What I am REALLY against is cruelty to animals of any sort.
I agree with your comment. I would also like to add that many species are in the brink of extinction since the industrial revolution. Look at how many factories polute the world, damaging the eco system all because we want to have the latest Iphones, computers, and cars. So, it would be our greed that ultimately brings the demise of species in the world that is sensitive to the environment.The comparison between shark finning and industrial farming methods just isn't valid. Farming certainly isn't perfect, but for the most part the slaughter is done humanely. However, even if it were not, it still isn't a fair comparison...
Cattle and pigs are not being killed to the point of extinction. Sharks are. Cattle and pigs are not critical parts of an ecosystem. Sharks are. Cattle and pigs are captive-bred for food. Virtually 100% of the animal is used. Sharks are wild and when caught, they are mutilated while alive as a rule, and tossed back into the ocean to die.
A more valid comparison to shark finning would be if you were to illegally run a baited trap line for many, many miles, through Algonquin Park. Check it once a week or so and you would find all manner of things trapped, mostly dead. Then say all you wanted was wolf feet. So cut the feet off of the wolves and if they are still alive, let them go. So for the sake of a few wolf feet, you would kill most of the wolves as well as bear, beavers, otters, and all kinds of other stuff.
The only reason shark finning exists is because a bunch of greedy criminals are supplying a ridiculous commodity to an ignorant and/or uncaring client base. They get away with it because for the most part, the hunt is unseen. Can you imagine the public uproar if the example I used was actually happening?
So the purpose of the City's ban is entirely symbolic. And I am OK with that.
Rob Stewart (the guy who made Sharkwater) is a friend of mine and he is a changed man after making that film.
I started a thread here months ago where I started off asking if "you" ever wonder about the future of the world. I personally think we're fucked and it's lead to a generally feeling of uselessness, which I hate.I agree with your comment. I would also like to add that many species are in the brink of extinction since the industrial revolution. Look at how many factories polute the world, damaging the eco system all because we want to have the latest Iphones, computers, and cars. So, it would be our greed that ultimately brings the demise of species in the world that is sensitive to the environment.
Fortunately, the next day, I feel like someday, we'll all "get it". But that feeling never really lasts.
I'm not sure what exactly that question entails.So it would be ok if they just killed the sharks?
The problem with this thread is that it has spun off into so many different issues.
I will say this on my behalf.
I believe there is nothing wrong with killing and eating meat, that it's not some ancient and unenlightened primitive behaviour.
I believe that animals, farmed or not, should be treated humanely and killed humanely.
I believe that if an animal is going to be killed for any consumption, it should be used or consumed purposefully and not wasted,
so that the overall good that we derive from it justifies our killing it (I realize the lines here can get blurry, but I'm sure most us understand the point I'm making).
If the animal is an endangered species or on it's way to becoming endangered, we should legislate the appropriate laws for the control
and necessary protection required, just as we do for other species.
If they killed then to use them for more than just fin soup, sure. Shark meat is not my favorite meal, but I wouldn't turn it down. They are worth more alive than dead in most cases as them have an immune system that we have only begun to understand. They don't get sick at the same rate than other living species do; as a matter of fact very rarely.So it would be ok if they just killed the sharks?
The problem with eco-tourism is that, like all tourism, it is highly dependent on a good economy. Eco-tourism only works when the economy is good for the people who could/would take eco-tourism trips (ie- not China and a large percentage of Asia, Africa except the very high elite, ditto South America). It also switches to a more currency-based economy instead of a trade and barter economy. Which is good, of course, but it's another barrier that has to be breached to get to what you want.That's a great analogy and is definitely more accurate representation of what is really happening. Well said! Here's a bit of info on how sharks benefit a specific economy of the Canary Islands - http://www.neweconomics.org/press-releases/sharks-are-good-for-coastal-communities
Seriously, what are you people thinking of doing? Holding a gun up to a fisherman's head, threatening his and his family's life if he doesn't stop shark finning and goes into the eco-tourism business instead? Is that really going to work for the Malaysian fishermen in the Straits of Malacca?
Your proposals make a lot of sense. For First World nations with good rule of law and established order. The very reason there is a shark finning industry is because there isn't a good rule of law and established order in Third World nations. Your "solutions" work fine in areas that have something approaching order and are safe enough to attract tourists. They also work because there is a fairly limited number of eco-tourist-centered locations around the world, catering to the fairly small number of eco-tourists. Seriously, how many of you have gone on an eco-tour? Meanwhile, virtually everyone on this board spends thousands (at least) on SPs, MPs, and strip clubs. And the demographics for this board are probably above average in disposable income for First World nations, the very target for eco-tourism.
Practices like shark finning are like (child) human trafficking and child labor in the Third World. None of us likes it. It's disgusting. But the solutions, such as they are, are to raise the standard of living so the locals don't have to do this sort of thing anymore. Eco-tourism is a nice stop gap measure for a limited number of places, but there's not way it can be seriously widespread enough to change the direction of eco-loss. At best, it can preserve a few pockets of semi-natural environment while the rest of the region is logged or fished bare.
Very true. The simpler solution then would be to reduce demand. That's exactly what shark fin ban in cities like Toronto is/was supposed to do. Of course, with China being such a huge market any bans currently in effect elsewhere are barely making a dent.But the solutions, such as they are, are to raise the standard of living so the locals don't have to do this sort of thing anymore. Eco-tourism is a nice stop gap measure for a limited number of places, but there's not way it can be seriously widespread enough to change the direction of eco-loss. At best, it can preserve a few pockets of semi-natural environment while the rest of the region is logged or fished bare.
There's an interesting study that links shark tissue consumption with Alzheimer's and Parkinson's - http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012...oaded-with-a-neurotoxin-study-finds/?src=recg.
“A delicious bowl of shark fin soup, loaded with mercury, loaded with BMAA — yum, yum, yum,” Dr. Mash said. “I mean, come on. Who would feed that to their family?”
“A delicious bowl of shark fin soup, loaded with mercury, loaded with BMAA — yum, yum, yum,” Dr. Mash said. “I mean, come on. Who would feed that to their family?”
This. And their living conditions till they are slaughtered is no walking in the park either.c) for all those cruelty fools, get some education, go see your cows, chickens and pigs being slaughtered and quit being so ignorant of what goes on under your very nose - from pink slime to e.coli to Listeria.
Really if you are angry about shark fins but you eat meat that isnt free range you should really just STFU.
