Omar Khadre

[seth gecko]

The Canada I am a citizen of does not have mob rule.

Well I'm very happy for you.

I have no idea how you made the connection between "mob rule" and the need for privacy.
Like it or not, there is ample reason for Omar to be under surveillance should he be released back to Canada.
Given his circumstances and family history, it would be totally negligent not to monitor him....even if he has 100% reformed and renounced his past, others of a similar mindset may try to get in touch with him. Those guys are worth knowing about. And thats just whats coming from the official scrutiny. Or should we totally ignore his family history and connections?
Some media outlets will have a field day over him.....tell me you haven't followed this story in the media, and wouldn't continue reading stuff about him. Its a controversial & sensational story, and that sells papers/draws viewers. If you beleive that newsgroups wouldn't follow his story, you might consider being the first to drop the discussion. Or should the media be banned on reporting on this any further?
The best thing for him, if he wants to lead any semblance of a normal life, is to give Canada a wiiiiiide berth for a loooong time. You don't go where you're not wanted, and expect rainbows and parades. And if he wants to follow in his fathers footsteps, then he should also stay the heck out of Canada. The Canada I am citizen of does not provide refuge for terrorist operations.

Have a Tuborg and some havarti, and enjoy your evening.

 

[danmand]

Have a Tuborg and some havarti, and enjoy your evening.

As a matter of fact, I already had a Tuborg and some Havarti. And I do enjoy my evening, thank you very much. Likewise to you.

I am sorry if I misread your post.

 

[fuji]

The most damaging road that Khadr could travel would be to become an activist, and toe the line of what is legal speech in Canada. He'll have one enormous soap box to stand on when he gets out, and if he uses that soap box, any restrictions on his travel, monitoring, etc., will only serve to amplify his message.

 

[seth gecko]

As a matter of fact, I already had a Tuborg and some Havarti. And I do enjoy my evening, thank you very much. Likewise to you.

I am sorry if I misread your post.

Nothing to be sorry about. No offence taken by me.
Sorry if I offend you by repeatedly calling you "Dutch", my Danish friend. Its a joke, no insult intended.

 

[seth gecko]

If Khadr intends on causing damage, then given his family history and connections, as well as any contacts he may have made for himself while in custody. then he could surely come up with something more damaging than activism. He isn't exactly Hurrican Carter or David Milgaard....those who've already formed opinions on what he may or may not be ("innocent victim" vs "scion of terrorism") likely won't be swayed by hearing him speak. If he wants any chance at a normal future, forget the activism........move somewhere where he can be relatively obscure and not be a poster-boy for one side or the other. Do some good deeds, work with underprivileged kids, etc etc to repudiate the negative stigma that he carries.
He may have the right to return to Canada, but it may not be in his own best interest to exercise that right.

 

[fuji]

I'm not expecting him to do activism that is in Canada's interests. Inciting terrorist behavior perhaps. You're assuming that his activism is going to appeal to the mainstream--at this point Khadr is worth more to the terrorist underworld as a public speaker than as someone who does stuff. As you've pointed out he's going to be followed and monitored. That's not going to stop him from having a dramatic influence, if he chooses to.

Mainstream protestant and catholic and jewish Canadians aren't going to be his target audience.

 

[landscaper]

However your motive, it is entirely impractical. Firstly, it would have to apply to all citizens, as the charter does not recognize different classes of citizens. Secondly, which other country do you expect to take the ones that are set adrift from Canada?

No the Charter does not have 2 catagories of citizen, however the precident for revoking of citizenship for breaking the law does exist. The lieing on immigration forms was fraud, breaking the citizenship oath could also be considered in the same light. I did say that the law would have to be carefully written, but given howmany citizens of convenience are bouncingf around the middle east and China, Singapor and Hong Kong it would be an advantage to have.

 

[fuji]

No the Charter does not have 2 catagories of citizen, however the precident for revoking of citizenship for breaking the law does exist. The lieing on immigration forms was fraud, breaking the citizenship oath could also be considered in the same light. I did say that the law would have to be carefully written, but given howmany citizens of convenience are bouncingf around the middle east and China, Singapor and Hong Kong it would be an advantage to have.

Small problem--Omar Khadr was never required to take a citizenship oath. He was born here.

 

[train]

It may come as a schock to you, but in Canada, muslims are free to move and settle wherever they want to.

With good luck and good fortune hopefully confessed terroists aren't

 

[nottyboi]

Until I read/hear such a confession from Omar Khadr, I'll reserve my judgment. So far, everything I've read and heard about his role in the firefight in question has been unsubstantiated hearsay and conjecture without a shred of evidence or even a reliable witness. Here's a pretty good example of that.

You'd be well served to try and do the same - until then, I'd recommend that you keep your eyes and mind open as well as trying to keep your opinions civilized and not lecture others. I know that might require an unbiased, wait-and-see approach, but you can do it!

There is definitely reasonable doubt. It amazes me how soldiers get all whiney when they attack and kill people and people shoot back. I mean WTF do you expect? I see no evidence the terrorists in this house were given any opportunity to surrender and there have been several accounts that other prisoners were murdered by these soldiers... so much for accountability....

 

[burt-oh-my!]

Just weighing in here, havent read the entire post, but the basic point here is NOT what he will do if he is released etc. the friggin point is, did he do anythign wrong, from a legal point of view? If not, then what he does after he is released will be dealt with at that time. Secondly, if 15 year olds are not considered adults, then why oh why is he being held as an adult etc? A 15 year olod here could KILL someone and he'd get like 2 years in a reform school, so why is this guy getting so much worse?

Why are we ignoring the rule of law, precedent, geneva convention etc? To me, the whole case against George Bush was his disregard for all semblances of legality in his undertaking of war. The whole 'held without charges/no habeus corpus/torture etc should make everyone who treasures the rule of law to shudder. If I were he, I would make no deal (presuming he can survive future waterboardings/sleep deprivation/psychological terrorizing) and make them solve the problem without my confession. WTF good is any confession from Gitmo, anyhow?

 

[danmand]

No the Charter does not have 2 catagories of citizen, however the precident for revoking of citizenship for breaking the law does exist.

I do not believe there is any precedence or any legal possiblity for citizenship to be taken away from a canadian, based upon any kind of bad or criminal behaviour. Again, surely, Canada cannot leave someone stateless, and which country do you think would give citizenship to such a person?

 

[nottyboi]

Just weighing in here, havent read the entire post, but the basic point here is NOT what he will do if he is released etc. the friggin point is, did he do anythign wrong, from a legal point of view? If not, then what he does after he is released will be dealt with at that time. Secondly, if 15 year olds are not considered adults, then why oh why is he being held as an adult etc? A 15 year olod here could KILL someone and he'd get like 2 years in a reform school, so why is this guy getting so much worse?

Why are we ignoring the rule of law, precedent, geneva convention etc? To me, the whole case against George Bush was his disregard for all semblances of legality in his undertaking of war. The whole 'held without charges/no habeus corpus/torture etc should make everyone who treasures the rule of law to shudder. If I were he, I would make no deal (presuming he can survive future waterboardings/sleep deprivation/psychological terrorizing) and make them solve the problem without my confession. WTF good is any confession from Gitmo, anyhow?

Yes but he's Arab so his case is really pretty solid proof of the level of racism in Canada... if he was white it would be a whole different ballgame.

 

[danmand]

Yes but he's Arab so his case is really pretty solid proof of the level of racism in Canada... if he was white it would be a whole different ballgame.

Now, don't take Terb as being representative for canadians. I do not see the rabid anti muslim and anti arab and anti immigrants sentiments in regular canadian society.

 

[Malibook]

I see no evidence the terrorists in this house were given any opportunity to surrender

An Afghan militiaman was sent towards the house to demand the surrender of the occupants, but retreated under gunfire.
Reinforcements from the 3rd Platoon of Bravo Company, 1st Battalion 505th Infantry Regiment arrived under the command of Captain Christopher W. Cirino, bringing the total number of Americans and Afghan militia to about fifty. Two of Zadran's militiamen were sent into the compound to speak with the inhabitants, and returned to the Americans' position and reported that the men inside claimed to be Pashtun villagers. They were told to return to the huts, and inform the occupants that the Americans wanted to search their house regardless of their affiliation. Upon hearing this, the occupants of the hut opened fire, shooting both militiamen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr#The_firefight

 

[landscaper]

Small problem--Omar Khadr was never required to take a citizenship oath. He was born here.

If you check the earlier posts I did point that fact out he is our problem for now until he renounces his citizenship, It was his mother I am interested ion removing

 

[landscaper]

I do not believe there is any precedence or any legal possiblity for citizenship to be taken away from a canadian, based upon any kind of bad or criminal behaviour. Again, surely, Canada cannot leave someone stateless, and which country do you think would give citizenship to such a person?

Returning them to the country they originally came from is the obvious choice. The problem is that the original country may refuse to accept them, we have a number of criminals in cells now ordered deported but the country of origin refuses to take them back, Iran notably.

 

[landscaper]

Yes but he's Arab so his case is really pretty solid proof of the level of racism in Canada... if he was white it would be a whole different ballgame.

How is holding somebody accountable for their actions racist? If you have some examples of of the situation you are quoting please post it.

 

[nottyboi]

An Afghan militiaman was sent towards the house to demand the surrender of the occupants, but retreated under gunfire.
Reinforcements from the 3rd Platoon of Bravo Company, 1st Battalion 505th Infantry Regiment arrived under the command of Captain Christopher W. Cirino, bringing the total number of Americans and Afghan militia to about fifty. Two of Zadran's militiamen were sent into the compound to speak with the inhabitants, and returned to the Americans' position and reported that the men inside claimed to be Pashtun villagers. They were told to return to the huts, and inform the occupants that the Americans wanted to search their house regardless of their affiliation. Upon hearing this, the occupants of the hut opened fire, shooting both militiamen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr#The_firefight

After the bombs were dropped they did not offer any chance to surrender and if you read the account there is a lot of killing of disabled people going on... i.e murder. Even Khadar was shot in the back when in a prone position...

 

[landscaper]

Just weighing in here, havent read the entire post, but the basic point here is NOT what he will do if he is released etc. the friggin point is, did he do anythign wrong, from a legal point of view? If not, then what he does after he is released will be dealt with at that time. Secondly, if 15 year olds are not considered adults, then why oh why is he being held as an adult etc? A 15 year olod here could KILL someone and he'd get like 2 years in a reform school, so why is this guy getting so much worse?

Why are we ignoring the rule of law, precedent, geneva convention etc? To me, the whole case against George Bush was his disregard for all semblances of legality in his undertaking of war. The whole 'held without charges/no habeus corpus/torture etc should make everyone who treasures the rule of law to shudder. If I were he, I would make no deal (presuming he can survive future waterboardings/sleep deprivation/psychological terrorizing) and make them solve the problem without my confession. WTF good is any confession from Gitmo, anyhow?

This argument went on for a while on a previous thread, Kahdr was captured when he was 15 years of age, the Geneva Conventions on child soldiers make him an adult according to the applicable law.

My own take on the issue is that he should have been held as a POW until the end of hostilities which would have solved a lot of problems for everybody. The issue was a number of highly placed American civilians who apparantly want their pound of flesh and they came up with the enemy combatant silliness that is Guantanmo BAy. It was ill concieved and iIMO wrong. However my opinion is worht what the Americans paid for it they made the call and they are dealing with it.

The argument about what he will do when released is a worrysome one. He is an unrepentant terrorist from a miltiant background. The question is will he continue with those activities when released? I think the possibility is high, and that is what the Canadian authorities have to consider. Neither the Conservative government or the Liberal govt prior wanted anything to do with this person probably becasue it is a no win situation, they will piss off about half the population either way.