North Korea & Iran, two states in need of "regime change"

[flubadub]

Getting back on topic.
Wikileaks has found that Australia was not in the least worried about Iran, saying that if they got the bomb it would be purely for deterrance.
While Berlusconi in Italy has been found to say that he is quite worried about Israel attacking Iran, suggesting it could lead to nuclear war.
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/12/12/italian-pm-warns-israel-may-nuke-iran/

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2010/12/201012133225891426.html

 

[toguy5252]

Getting back on topic.
Wikileaks has found that Australia was not in the least worried about Iran, saying that if they got the bomb it would be purely for deterrance.
While Berlusconi in Italy has been found to say that he is quite worried about Israel attacking Iran, suggesting it could lead to nuclear war.
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/12/12/italian-pm-warns-israel-may-nuke-iran/

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2010/12/201012133225891426.html

I guess you just forgot about Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan and Abu Dhabi etc.

I guess your standard operating procedure hasn't changed much. When the fact get in the way either ignore them, change them, misstate them lie about them.

You are a pathetic clown.

 

[landscaper]

Brisbane to Tehran 12700 KM I can see why they would not be overly concerned abotu a direct attack

 

[flubadub]

I guess you just forgot about Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan and Abu Dhabi etc.

I guess your standard operating procedure hasn't changed much. When the fact get in the way either ignore them, change them, misstate them lie about them.

Need I once again quote from the Zogby poll saying that 88% of the middle east was afraid of Israel, 70% were afraid of the US and only 10% afraid of invasion from Iran?

The Australian wikileaks are entirely consistent with this.
Its only you pro-Israeli idiots that are constantly trying to call for war with Iran, the rest of the world is not concerned.

 

[fuji]

Here's flub, once again changing the topic on losing a point, to a topic he lost the point on previously. Gee flubby do you think your poll result might be biased by the propaganda from those governments??????? Oh yeah this was pointed out to you elsewhere.

 

[rld]

Here's flub, once again changing the topic on losing a point, to a topic he lost the point on previously. Gee flubby do you think your poll result might be biased by the propaganda from those governments??????? Oh yeah this was pointed out to you elsewhere.

I have not read the poll, but do you not think that NA attitudes are influenced by poor information coming from our governments?

 

[fuji]

I have not read the poll, but do you not think that NA attitudes are influenced by poor information coming from our governments?

Surely, but far less so than in countries where the media is strictly controlled by the government.

 

[landscaper]

I have not read the poll, but do you not think that NA attitudes are influenced by poor information coming from our governments?

All information is influenced, regardless of where it comes from. In the North American case the media is pretty much able to do as it wishes , libel laws etc notwithstanding. The problem then becomes are teh media outlets influencing information with reporting or editorial predjudices . In cases in the middle east and asia the media is controlled largely by the government and becomes the information source for the powers that be.

In either case the reader of the information MUST verify the information, otherwise you become a parrot , saying whatever the orthodoxy of the day is. That particular example shows up on this board in abundance, Isreal good, Palitine bad and the inverse, conservative bad liberal good, etc.

Information is just that, information constructing a useful discussion or in some cases argument requires actual thought, a thing which at times seems to be woefully inadequete here.

P.S. Sorry for jumping you thought RLD this got more complicated as I wrote... too lazy to start over in its own line.

 

[rld]

Surely, but far less so than in countries where the media is strictly controlled by the government.

And if you don't like the poll numbers do you offer better or more accurate data to draw a conclusion from, or just a criticism of the poll?

Are we stuck with the "best evidence" being flawed, or do you have something else?

 

[toguy5252]

Need I once again quote from the Zogby poll saying that 88% of the middle east was afraid of Israel, 70% were afraid of the US and only 10% afraid of invasion from Iran?

The Australian wikileaks are entirely consistent with this.
Its only you pro-Israeli idiots that are constantly trying to call for war with Iran, the rest of the world is not concerned.

Again you quote polls rather than the unequivocal words of the leaders of most Middle East countries. I have not heard anyone call for war with Iran other than perhaps the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt etc. Israel has said as have most other countries that if diplomacy fails there be be no other choice but that a nuclear Iran is unacceptable to the world community.

 

[flubadub]

All information is influenced, regardless of where it comes from. In the North American case the media is pretty much able to do as it wishes , libel laws etc notwithstanding. The problem then becomes are teh media outlets influencing information with reporting or editorial predjudices . In cases in the middle east and asia the media is controlled largely by the government and becomes the information source for the powers that be.

In either case the reader of the information MUST verify the information, otherwise you become a parrot , saying whatever the orthodoxy of the day is. That particular example shows up on this board in abundance, Isreal good, Palitine bad and the inverse, conservative bad liberal good, etc.

Information is just that, information constructing a useful discussion or in some cases argument requires actual thought, a thing which at times seems to be woefully inadequete here.

P.S. Sorry for jumping you thought RLD this got more complicated as I wrote... too lazy to start over in its own line.

In Canada the media is pretty free, though the CBC is under a lot of pressure from the gov't.
In the US, the media is 5 large, rich corporations.
Fox has been caught out with memo's asking the news to be given an anti-muslem spin.

And Fuji, I'm not giving up on the argument.
Just for you, here's yet another take on why Israel will never attack Iran.

Every cloud has a silver lining: Maybe lessons will be learned from the fire. Not only fire extinguishers, fire trucks and new planes, but also new thinking, and fire retardants that douse the really big fire.

The home front's weakness should teach us that Israel apparently has no military option. This is a much more fateful lesson than all the fire's other lessons, and it should be dealt with. The apocalyptic descriptions of a missile attack on the home front if Israel attacks Iran or Lebanon appear even more apocalyptic in light of Israel's conduct when handling a medium-sized forest fire. Discussions on our future, therefore, should move to the arena that Israelis favor: the security arena.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/israel-may-have-no-military-option-against-iran-1.330130

 

[fuji]

And if you don't like the poll numbers do you offer better or more accurate data to draw a conclusion from, or just a criticism of the poll?

Yes, as many others have pointed out on this thread, what matters is the opinions of the leaders of those countries, the ones who control the armies, and their views are on record.

 

[fuji]

I'm not giving up on the argument.

You never do. Long after you've lost you keep repeating the same failed points, you continue on with the same failure of comprehension. This is why you are known around here as a propaganda clown.

 

[flubadub]

Yes, as many others have pointed out on this thread, what matters is the opinions of the leaders of those countries, the ones who control the armies, and their views are on record.

That's a good one.
First you rant against the opinions of the leaders of the middle east as a bunch of dictators who control the arab leaders and the UN HRC, then when the people voice opinions you disagree with you have to go back and try to back those same dictators.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

 

[toguy5252]

That's a good one.
First you rant against the opinions of the leaders of the middle east as a bunch of dictators who control the arab leaders and the UN HRC, then when the people voice opinions you disagree with you have to go back and try to back those same dictators.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

LOL. When is the last time the people as opposed to leaders made the decision to go to war or not. It is not a case of backing leader it is a case of recognizing the reality of who exercises power.

 

[fuji]

That's a good one.
First you rant against the opinions of the leaders of the middle east as a bunch of dictators who control the arab leaders and the UN HRC, then when the people voice opinions you disagree with you have to go back and try to back those same dictators.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

You didn't comprehend what was said. You apparently live in a mental fog.