No Pot For Metrolinx

[Ref]

What this really tells me is the Police have no definitive way to tell if someone simply has THC in their system or if they're actually impaired.

Unfortunately the Trudeau government pushed the legalization through before a lot of things were thought out. The largest miss was not having a dependable roadside test kit. To me, that is unbelievable.

 

[Ref]

Sure, I will explain it to you.

Metrolinx has this inconvenient thing called "liability".

It over rides your right to get high.

Imagine a scenario where a westbound GO Train driver blows through a red light and slams a commuter train into an eastbound freight train. 50 people are killed and hundreds injured. They arrest the driver on the scene and take him for drug and alcohol testing. He is found to have cannabis in his system. He swears that the last time he got high was 3 weeks ago.

Now the lawyers get in on the action. They argue that the driver had cannabis in his system and it impaired his availability and caused the driver to run through the red signal and slam into the freight train.

They launch millions of dollars in lawsuits against Metrolinx and the whole thing drags out in court for 7 years. During the trial, the lawyers for the victims bring in a pile of paid "experts" who go on and on about how even minute traces of cannabis can impair reaction times, blah blah blah.

In the end, the jury, being composed of such knowledgeable individuals [ sarcasm] finds Metrolinx to be liable for hundreds of millions plus tens of millions in legal fees. The case gets appealed to the Supreme Court, which costs another 50 million in lawyer fees and drags out for another 5 years. And on and on and on.

All so a train driver has the right to get high.

In such scenarios, juries are composed of morons who will award hundreds of millions of dollars because they figure that someone has to pay.

So Metrolinx figures that the public has a right to ride on a train or bus being operated by a guy who does not have recreational drugs in his system. They enact a policy which states that if you want to work for them in a safety critical position you cannot be a drug user. It's their right as an employer to make it a qualification for the job.

Excellent post.

They will need to work on a drug that will remove THC from the system within an hour or so.

 

[wigglee]

Sure, I will explain it to you.

Metrolinx has this inconvenient thing called "liability".

It over rides your right to get high.

Imagine a scenario where a westbound GO Train driver blows through a red light and slams a commuter train into an eastbound freight train. 50 people are killed and hundreds injured. They arrest the driver on the scene and take him for drug and alcohol testing. He is found to have cannabis in his system. He swears that the last time he got high was 3 weeks ago.

Now the lawyers get in on the action. They argue that the driver had cannabis in his system and it impaired his availability and caused the driver to run through the red signal and slam into the freight train.

They launch millions of dollars in lawsuits against Metrolinx and the whole thing drags out in court for 7 years. During the trial, the lawyers for the victims bring in a pile of paid "experts" who go on and on about how even minute traces of cannabis can impair reaction times, blah blah blah.

In the end, the jury, being composed of such knowledgeable individuals [ sarcasm] finds Metrolinx to be liable for hundreds of millions plus tens of millions in legal fees. The case gets appealed to the Supreme Court, which costs another 50 million in lawyer fees and drags out for another 5 years. And on and on and on.

All so a train driver has the right to get high.

In such scenarios, juries are composed of morons who will award hundreds of millions of dollars because they figure that someone has to pay.

So Metrolinx figures that the public has a right to ride on a train or bus being operated by a guy who does not have recreational drugs in his system. They enact a policy which states that if you want to work for them in a safety critical position you cannot be a drug user. It's their right as an employer to make it a qualification for the job.

like I said... they need better testing procedures

 

[james t kirk]

like I said... they need better testing procedures

Why?

An all out ban is a guarantee to work.

 

[GameBoy27]

Why?

An all out ban is a guarantee to work.

If that's the case, they they should prohibit all employees in safety sensitive jobs from consuming any recreational or prescription drugs and that can cause impairment, including alcohol 24/7/365. This includes everything from beer, wine, liquor, Tylenol 2, 3, cough syrup and the list goes on...

 

[TeeJay]

It definitely appears the Metrolinx policy will be headed to court.

“This is infringement on an individual’s human rights,” he said.

Di Nino said the union has no tolerance for workers being impaired on the job, but “it is hugely problematic and concerning when they are trying to control what we do on our personal time off property.”"

Justin W. Anisman, an associate at Toronto’s Brauti Thorning LLP and an expert in employment law, questioned whether Metrolinx’s policy would stand up to legal scrutiny.

“Employers cannot interfere with their employees’ rights to engage in recreational activities outside the workplace,” he said.

“In the same way you can’t ban people from drinking alcohol outside the workplace, you can’t ban them from smoking cannabis.”

Um... don't know what law school he flunked outta but they certainly CAN restrict employees rights to do things in their freetime
Plenty of news stories crying about cases where someone violated a policy by doing something in their free time (eg Jetski) that violated their employment contract

 

[TeeJay]

"Human rights issue"

That's funny.

"Medicinal marijuana" is funnier though
I still can't keep a straight face when someone spouts that nonsense

If you want to get high just be honest about it lol

 

[canada-man]

Medical Marijuana Myth – Alzheimer Treatment:

Marijuana ineffective as an Alzheimer’s treatment (University of British Columbia)
Medical Marijuana Myth – Multiple Sclerosis (MS) Treatment:

Active ingredient of cannabis has no effect on the progression of multiple sclerosis (Peninsula College of Medicine and Dentistry)

Added benefit of Cannabis sativa for spasticity due to multiple sclerosis is not proven (Institute for Quality and Efficiency in Health Care)

Cannabis constituent has no effect on MS progression (Plymouth University)

Jury’s Still Out on Use of Marijuana Derivative for MS (American Academy of Neurology)

Marijuana Use May Hurt Intellectual Skills in MS Patients (American Academy of Neurology)

No strong evidence to back use of cannabis extract in Multiple Sclerosis (British Medical Journal)

Smoking Marijuana Impairs Cognitive Function in MS Patients (American Academy of Neurology)
Medical Marijuana Myth – Nausea Relief:

Marijuana use associated with cyclic vomiting syndrome in young males (Neurogastroenterology and Motility Journal)

Marijuana use may cause severe cyclic nausea, vomiting, a little-known, but costly effect(American College of Gastroenterology)

Severe Vomiting Sickness With Chronic Cannabis Abuse (World Journal of Gastroenterology)
Medical Marijuana Myth – Pain Relief:
Active ingredients in marijuana found to spread and prolong pain (University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston)

Cannabis ‘no better than codeine’ for headaches (British Medical Journal)

Doubts on cannabis for pain relief (Flinders Medical Centre)

Endocannabinoids can promote pain (ETH Zurich)

Medical Marijuana Not the Answer for Teens with Chronic Pain, Mayo Clinic Doctors Say (Mayo Clinic)

Oral Cannabis Ineffective In Treating Acute Pain (Journal of Anesthesiology)

Too Much Marijuana Makes Pain Worse, Not Better (University of California, San Diego)

 

[wigglee]

Why?

An all out ban is a guarantee to work.

but some of us are concerned with fairness and equitable treatment . They need better testing methods that can determine whether one is actually high or not. Don't the police use something like that for drivers? Just have them blow at the beginning and end of their shift.

 

[james t kirk]

If that's the case, they they should prohibit all employees in safety sensitive jobs from consuming any recreational or prescription drugs and that can cause impairment, including alcohol 24/7/365. This includes everything from beer, wine, liquor, Tylenol 2, 3, cough syrup and the list goes on...

They already have a 0 tolerance policy in place for alcohol. If you work for Metrolinx in a safety sensitive position you can not have any alcohol in your system or you will be fired. If such a person gets into an accident of any kind, or even has a minor safety violation he or she is immediately sent for drug and alcohol resting. If there is the presence of any alcohol or drugs, the person is suspended immediately pending the outcome of a hearing and that outcome will be termination.

Prescription drugs have to be revealed to the employer and a medical evaluation is made by several doctors. If there are any impairment side effects, the person in question is not permitted to carry on working in a safety sensitive position. There are many prescription drugs that do not impair cognitive function and or motor skills. This determination is up to medical professionals.

In the case of pot, it is a hallucinogenic drug and can remain in the system for months. Ergo, it is forbidden and will result in that person's termination.

It's really that simple.

 

[james t kirk]

but some of us are concerned with fairness and equitable treatment . They need better testing methods that can determine whether one is actually high or not. Don't the police use something like that for drivers? Just have them blow at the beginning and end of their shift.

Then don't drive a train for GO Transit.

 

[TOraps23]

They already have a 0 tolerance policy in place for alcohol. If you work for Metrolinx in a safety sensitive position you can not have any alcohol in your system or you will be fired. If such a person gets into an accident of any kind, or even has a minor safety violation he or she is immediately sent for drug and alcohol resting. If there is the presence of any alcohol or drugs, the person is suspended immediately pending the outcome of a hearing and that outcome will be termination.

Prescription drugs have to be revealed to the employer and a medical evaluation is made by several doctors. If there are any impairment side effects, the person in question is not permitted to carry on working in a safety sensitive position. There are many prescription drugs that do not impair cognitive function and or motor skills. This determination is up to medical professionals.

In the case of pot, it is a hallucinogenic drug and can remain in the system for months. Ergo, it is forbidden and will result in that person's termination.

It's really that simple.

If this is true then I’m cool with metrolink decision.

 

[GameBoy27]

They already have a 0 tolerance policy in place for alcohol. If you work for Metrolinx in a safety sensitive position you can not have any alcohol in your system or you will be fired. If such a person gets into an accident of any kind, or even has a minor safety violation he or she is immediately sent for drug and alcohol resting. If there is the presence of any alcohol or drugs, the person is suspended immediately pending the outcome of a hearing and that outcome will be termination.

Prescription drugs have to be revealed to the employer and a medical evaluation is made by several doctors. If there are any impairment side effects, the person in question is not permitted to carry on working in a safety sensitive position. There are many prescription drugs that do not impair cognitive function and or motor skills. This determination is up to medical professionals.

In the case of pot, it is a hallucinogenic drug and can remain in the system for months. Ergo, it is forbidden and will result in that person's termination.

It's really that simple.

I'm more concerned that Metrolinx employees, in safety sensitive positions get a good night's sleep than someone who smoke a joint on a Friday night then goes to work on a Monday. Yes, they may have THC in their system, but they're not still high. Anyone who's smoked a joint knows they're not impaired a few days later.

Besides, many experts suggest driving while tired can have the same or similar impairment effects of drugs or alcohol. According to the National Sleep Foundation: “Drowsy driving is dangerous because sleep deprivation can have similar effects on your body as drugs or alcohol."

It's really that simple.

 

[Darts]

I'm more concerned that Metrolinx employees, in safety sensitive positions get a good night's sleep

Not sure about GO drivers but airline pilots and truck drivers are allowed to work only restricted hours to make sure they are well rested. I think it is the same with kidney transplant surgeons (only one operation per day).

"No driving after 13 hours driving; No driving after 14 hours on-duty; At least 10 hours off-duty (at least 8 hours of this time must be consecutive before the driver can drive and there must be 2 additional hours off-duty in no less than 30 minute periods that do not form part of the 8 consecutive hours)." Apparently, the truck driver in Saskatchewan broke this rule many times.

I wonder what they do with their free time. Hopefully they are not hitting the bars looking to hook up with women (or men).

 

[james t kirk]

I'm more concerned that Metrolinx employees, in safety sensitive positions get a good night's sleep than someone who smoke a joint on a Friday night then goes to work on a Monday. Yes, they may have THC in their system, but they're not still high. Anyone who's smoked a joint knows they're not impaired a few days later.

Besides, many experts suggest driving while tired can have the same or similar impairment effects of drugs or alcohol. According to the National Sleep Foundation: “Drowsy driving is dangerous because sleep deprivation can have similar effects on your body as drugs or alcohol."

It's really that simple.

You keep trying to come up with "oh yeah, but what about...... alcohol, prescription meds, now it's driving while tired". This isn't about any of those issues. Metrolinx already has policies and guidelines that cover all of those. Now they've made their pot policy public. It's all part of their doing business and protecting the pubic and mitigating their own liability. I don't know why that's so hard for you to get your head around. It's their house, it's their rules.

Besides, as previously stated, all it would take is one accident and if the train driver has THC in his system, whether it was from 3 days ago, or 3 months ago, the lawyers would have a field day.

If you believe anything different, you're naive.

 

[wigglee]

Then don't drive a train for GO Transit.

I won't......but I hope you're not frightened by the reality that being tired is far more hazardous to driving than being buzzed on pot. OH NO! Let's prohibit all forms of mechanized transportation!

 

[TeeJay]

I won't......but I hope you're not frightened by the reality that being tired is far more hazardous to driving than being buzzed on pot. OH NO! Let's prohibit all forms of mechanized transportation!

You do realize they inspect things like trucks / trains and driving fatigued (or too long) results in penalties

 

[Ref]

They already have a 0 tolerance policy in place for alcohol. If you work for Metrolinx in a safety sensitive position you can not have any alcohol in your system or you will be fired. If such a person gets into an accident of any kind, or even has a minor safety violation he or she is immediately sent for drug and alcohol resting. If there is the presence of any alcohol or drugs, the person is suspended immediately pending the outcome of a hearing and that outcome will be termination.

Prescription drugs have to be revealed to the employer and a medical evaluation is made by several doctors. If there are any impairment side effects, the person in question is not permitted to carry on working in a safety sensitive position. There are many prescription drugs that do not impair cognitive function and or motor skills. This determination is up to medical professionals.

In the case of pot, it is a hallucinogenic drug and can remain in the system for months. Ergo, it is forbidden and will result in that person's termination.

It's really that simple.

One other thing I thought of is what happens if you are in the vicinity of someone smoking weed and inhale the second hand smoke? Say you are at a concert, or someone passes you on the sidewalk and you inhale the second hand smoke? Technically their will be traces of THC in your system.

This further reinforces my belief that a responsible government would have first developed products that can accurately measure the impairment level of THC in your system (similar to alcohol) before making it legal. Unfortunately Trudeau knew that if he did not legalize weed it would impair his chances of being re-elected in 2019.

If I was a driver and in a situation where I was being terminated or even charged with having THC in my system, I would go the second hand smoke route as a defense. Then I would challenge that the government should have developed a means of measuring impairment before making the product legal.

The first case of being charged with the death of someone else based on being impaired under the influence of marijuana is going to be interesting. Depending on the amount of money the defendant has that is...

 

[apoptygma]

I'm more concerned that Metrolinx employees, in safety sensitive positions get a good night's sleep than someone who smoke a joint on a Friday night then goes to work on a Monday. Yes, they may have THC in their system, but they're not still high. Anyone who's smoked a joint knows they're not impaired a few days later.

Besides, many experts suggest driving while tired can have the same or similar impairment effects of drugs or alcohol. According to the National Sleep Foundation: “Drowsy driving is dangerous because sleep deprivation can have similar effects on your body as drugs or alcohol."

It's really that simple.

Do you know what the Metrolinx policy is on reporting for duty to a safety sensitive position while tired?
Because you seem to know a whole lot about their policies... so please enlighten us as to what their policy is regarding this?

 

[GameBoy27]

One other thing I thought of is what happens if you are in the vicinity of someone smoking weed and inhale the second hand smoke? Say you are at a concert, or someone passes you on the sidewalk and you inhale the second hand smoke? Technically their will be traces of THC in your system.

This dude used exactly that as his defense, and it worked. Got him his gold medal back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Rebagliati#Ross'_Gold_and_Legacy_by_Ross_Rebagliati

Do you know what the Metrolinx policy is on reporting for duty to a safety sensitive position while tired?
Because you seem to know a whole lot about their policies... so please enlighten us as to what their policy is regarding this?

Haven't a clue, nor do I profess to. All I said was I'd be more worried about a drowsy driver from a lack of sleep the night before, than someone who smoke a joint on a Friday and went to work well rested on Monday.