New TTC Streetcars Unveiled
- Thread starter Fred Zed
- Start date
They look a bit 'weird' but presumably that is because they are a design I've never seen before. Doubtless I will get used to them and certainly it sounds like they have many good improvements not least AC.
I just don't know why they keep investing in 1920's transportation technology. Streetcars are just so impractical. I really can't see how tearing up the roads every few years to refurbish streetcar tracks provides a good ROI. I was in Vancouver recently and they have electric buses that run on the same principal as a streetcar using an overhead electric wire but without the tracks. This seems way more practical and cost effective than streetcars.
I like them myself, can't wait to test-ride one of them
TORONTO STAR POLL
Thank you for voting!
They look great 83.53% (1,937 votes)
They are okay 10.52% (244 votes)
I wouldn't go near them 5.95% (138 votes)
Total Votes: 2,319
Comments (0)Return To Poll
Let me guess, you don't often use the TTC, you mostly drive and never ride a bus or streetcar. You certainly don't commute to work on either.I just don't know why they keep investing in 1920's transportation technology. Streetcars are just so impractical. I really can't see how tearing up the roads every few years to refurbish streetcar tracks provides a good ROI. I was in Vancouver recently and they have electric buses that run on the same principal as a streetcar using an overhead electric wire but without the tracks. This seems way more practical and cost effective than streetcars.
The TTC had those buses years ago and in their infinite wisdom got rid of them. They were the best of both worlds; non-polluting and also able to change lanes. Leave it to the TTC to eliminate the 'the better way' and instead keep using streetcars.I just don't know why they keep investing in 1920's transportation technology. Streetcars are just so impractical. I really can't see how tearing up the roads every few years to refurbish streetcar tracks provides a good ROI. I was in Vancouver recently and they have electric buses that run on the same principal as a streetcar using an overhead electric wire but without the tracks. This seems way more practical and cost effective than streetcars.
They were a lot more expensive to operate.The TTC had those buses years ago and in their infinite wisdom got rid of them. They were the best of both worlds; non-polluting and also able to change lanes. Leave it to the TTC to eliminate the 'the better way' and instead keep using streetcars.
including the costs to install and reinstall and reinstall tracks?They were a lot more expensive to operate.
do you have any links to those studies? i am interested from a public policy view point not to debate you on terb.Yes. Having three or four times as many vehicles with associated drivers turns out to be costly.
I am sure if we dig we can find that but it should also be obvious. The streetcars carry three to five times as many passengers.do you have any links to those studies? i am interested from a public policy view point not to debate you on terb.
i've learned over the years never to trust what is deemed to be obvious.I am sure if we dig we can find that but it should also be obvious. The streetcars carry three to five times as many passengers.
I happen to do all of these things and think streetcars are impractical and 1920's technology. I live, work, commute, walk and drive downtown.Let me guess, you don't often use the TTC, you mostly drive and never ride a bus or streetcar. You certainly don't commute to work on either.
They are loud, create huge traffic headaches, unreliable, bunch-up and are even unsafe in the way they let passengers off into traffic.
Can you at least provide a rationale for your position other than making an assumption about what another poster does or does not do?
fujiSo red, the number of buses required to replace the King Streetcars would require a dedicated lane to accommodate the number of buses required. Still interested?
i am questioning the basis for your comments. making additional strawman arguments is not the same as providing facts.
There used to be a report on the city hall website about the relative costs but, ahem, it looks like the mayor has taken that report offline.fuji
i am questioning the basis for your comments. making additional strawman arguments is not the same as providing facts.
There is some commentary in the St. Clair report which is still online on the city website.
There are two issues:
- streetcars carry four times more passengers and on high volume routes there simply isn't the road capacity to use the number of busses that would be needed
- the city already has an enormous capital stock invested in streetcar tracks, barns, and vehicles which would cost hundreds of millions if not billions to replace
If we did not have any transit infrastructure at all and were building from scratch there might be something to debate. The incremental cost of upgrading and extending the existing system is tiny compared to building a whole new system from scratch.
As for the old electric busses those power lines cannot power the number of buses that would be required and they broke down constantly. The actual modern alternative is hybrid electric buses which the city does use on the lower volume routes where streetcars would not be cost effective.
I don't believe that. I took one on Spadina down to Wellington. I didn't think it could hold that many more passengers. No bloody way.I am sure if we dig we can find that but it should also be obvious. The streetcars carry three to five times as many passengers.
There used to be a report on the city hall website about the relative costs but, ahem, it looks like the mayor has taken that report offline.
There is some commentary in the St. Clair report which is still online on the city website.
There are two issues:
- streetcars carry four times more passengers and on high volume routes there simply isn't the road capacity to use the number of busses that would be needed
- the city already has an enormous capital stock invested in streetcar tracks, barns, and vehicles which would cost hundreds of millions if not billions to replace
If we did not have any transit infrastructure at all and were building from scratch there might be something to debate. The incremental cost of upgrading and extending the existing system is tiny compared to building a whole new system from scratch.
As for the old electric busses those power lines cannot power the number of buses that would be required and they broke down constantly. The actual modern alternative is hybrid electric buses which the city does use on the lower volume routes where streetcars would not be cost effective.
I can't see St. Clair as being a high volume route which goes nowhere. Unless every local person who lives near St. Clair uses TTC and they fill up those cars quick all of the time. But pretty expensive just for local traffic.
Depends on the model of streetcar vs the model of bus. The king streetcars are also often packed well above their official capacity.I don't believe that. I took one on Spadina down to Wellington. I didn't think it could hold that many more passengers. No bloody way.
The new streetcars carry 250 people officially the current ones 132. A bus typically carries about 50 or 60.
They can all be overloaded and streetcars often carry well over capacity, and it is a lot safer to overload a streetcar due to the smoother ride.
