Netflix crackdown

fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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http://www.montrealgazette.com/busi...order+hopping+amid+global/11826867/story.html

Apparently Netflix is starting to crackdown on people who use VPN's to evade regional content restrictions.

Anyone been hit yet?

I'm in the US and benefiting in a different way: I still pay CAD for Netflix and save about $1.85 on my monthly subscription over paying USD. Woo! I'm rich!

But I'm sure lots of vpners here. Curious if anyone has been bitten.
 
Exactly I echo the comments in that post...f@ck netflix! I am stopping my subscription, plus the Canadian selection is not that good as I haven't found a movie to watch in a couple of months now, so I am paying for what exactly, crap to stream more crap!? ... I rather rent movies from Google Play vs. be bullied by these assholes, who are getting too big to give a shit. Why even give the option to have one account access multiple countries. There are so many other services out there.

Does anyone know what is the fine here? How are they hitting back?
 
Exactly I echo the comments in that post...f@ck netflix! I am stopping my subscription, plus the Canadian selection is not that good as I haven't found a movie to watch in a couple of months now, so I am paying for what exactly, crap to stream more crap!? ... I rather rent movies from Google Play vs. be bullied by these assholes, who are getting too big to give a shit. Why even give the option to have one account access multiple countries. There are so many other services out there.

Does anyone know what is the fine here? How are they hitting back?

I suspect they are just going to block the VPN services.
 
Fraud news
Netflix blocks one, you change the address and it works again

Netflix WANTS you to think it can stop you but at best they can only block your address
Change your address and voila back in business
 
Netflix is required to make good-faith efforts to respect the licensing terms they acquire the content under. They don't 'care' in the sense you may think they do, they just don't want to lose all their content because they haven't protected it sufficiently.
 
Do yo even know how ridiculous that comment is?
They can not "block the VPN services"
Go read up on how internet works

It is trivial for Netflix to identify the IP address blocks used by VPN services and by the hosting companies that house VPN servers and wholesale block them. If the average Joe can find and subscribe to it, so can Netflix.

What's so difficult?

Sure you could host your own VPN someplace they might not block, but how many people can do that? They can easily shut down 99% of it.

And note that Netflix can controls BOTH sides of the connection: you use the Netflix client to watch their movies. It can (and may already have) updated its clients to detect VPNs from the client side as well, looking at your traceroutes for VPN hosts, DNS servers, etc.

Yeah you could sideload an older version but again, how many people would do that? They will eliminate the majority that way. They don't need to block the super savvy, they just need to block the great majority.

The question is whether they WANT to, not whether they can. At some level they still make money on location spoofers, they just have to do enough to convince content owners to trust them with the rights.
 
It is trivial for Netflix to identify the IP address blocks used by VPN services and by the hosting companies that house VPN servers and wholesale block them. If the average Joe can find and subscribe to it, so can Netflix.
What's so difficult?

The fact the average VPN provider has a pool of thousands of addresses & even if one gets blocked they can simply load another?
That is a game of cat & mouse Netflix can never win
(And this is also based on your assumption that Netflix even IDs the VPN as being a VPN; many of the more serious ones out there only route SPECIFIC traffic. So the Netflix query will fail as they will not see the VPN)


And note that Netflix can controls BOTH sides of the connection: you use the Netflix client to watch their movies. It can (and may already have) updated its clients to detect VPNs from the client side as well, looking at your traceroutes for VPN hosts, DNS servers, etc.
Tinfoil hats to the rescue!
No there are no updates to the code that even tries to detect if you have a VPN
Most embedded devices (smart tv, dvd player etc) can not even be updated or do you think Netflix is going to blacklist millions of consumer devices en masse? That would just cause a spike in subscribers for their competitors such as Hulu

Even most smartphones only get OS updates for a year or so then no more
 
Netflix is required to make good-faith efforts to respect the licensing terms they acquire the content under. They don't 'care' in the sense you may think they do, they just don't want to lose all their content because they haven't protected it sufficiently.

Exactly
Someone (my money is on Disney) has been complaining about this so Netflix is trying to make a big media buzz

Heck this was huge news when Bell went on record as saying people were stealing content
It was big news for a few months and then they quietly gave up and moved on

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2015/06/sorry-bell-accessing-u-s-netflix-is-not-theft/

@fuji - If Bell itself can't block it how in the world do you expect Netflix to?

Last count they estimated Over 65% of Canadians are using US Netflix
 
The fact the average VPN provider has a pool of thousands of addresses & even if one gets blocked they can simply load another?

Netflix will not block them one by one. Netflix will identify the VPN service and block ALL their addresses.

That is a game of cat & mouse Netflix can never win
(And this is also based on your assumption that Netflix even IDs the VPN as being a VPN; many of the more serious ones out there only route SPECIFIC traffic. So the Netflix query will fail as they will not see the VPN)

Netflix just signs up as a customer of every service, then proceeds to silently trace their network. Then add all their ips to a blacklist.

If they want to get really serious, once they catch you using a VPN once they cancel your Netflix account and ban you from resubscribing, based on your credit card data rather than network data.

Tinfoil hats to the rescue!
No there are no updates to the code that even tries to detect if you have a VPN

Unless you work for Netflix, you don't know what instrumentation they have in their client.

Most embedded devices (smart tv, dvd player etc) can not even be updated

Yes they can. Certainly the most popular ones all auto update.

or do you think Netflix is going to blacklist millions of consumer devices en masse?

No. I think they will adopt a strategy that will catch 99% of VPN users and from a licensing perspective that will satisfy their partners in contract negotiations for content. They won't care about a handful of cheaters.

It IS like a game of cat and mouse: Netflix doesn't have to eliminate every last mouse, the cat just needs to be good enough to reduce the mouse population to an insignificant number.

Again this depends how serious Netflix wants to get. If they really want to eliminate it they start canceling accounts when they detect a VPN. That significantly changes the nature of the cat and mouse game.
 
Netflix will not block them one by one. Netflix will identify the VPN service and block ALL their addresses.
Not sure what is so hard to grasp here
A VPN has (at most) 2 common DNS servers active. Unless you are suggesting blacklisting an ISP all at once?
Assuming Netflix did block both of them, they would get 2 new addresses from thier ISP
Repeat process ad naseum until ISP has no more free addresses
Doing this will block tons of legit non-VPN addresses so Netflix then needs to go back and unblock them as well
The cat & mouse game is circular and as I said multiple times Netflix can never win




Netflix just signs up as a customer of every service, then proceeds to silently trace their network. Then add all their ips to a blacklist.
This makes no sense? If both you & I are using same ISP (Bell) and they block all the addresses then neither of us can watch Netflix dummy

If they want to get really serious, once they catch you using a VPN once they cancel your Netflix account and ban you from resubscribing, based on your credit card data rather than network data.
*sighs*
Another comment that shows you have no clue how internet works
Even Netflix themselves disagrees with you because they have NO WAY of telling whether the VPN is being used for changing region codes or for legit purposes
By your logic, you are a proper Netflix user who pays your money and does nothing wrong. One day you try to access Netflix from your work/school computer during lunch break. You have now cancelled your account and had your credit card blocked congratulations. I am sure there will be no complaining since you understand why it happened.


Unless you work for Netflix, you don't know what instrumentation they have in their client.
Are you really just trolling or this dense? Most people who use VPNs for privacy can very easily monitor ALL traffic on their network.
Plus the fact the internet would be abuzz if anyone found any extra commands in the client as people routinely reverse engineer it to make hack versions
 
Not sure what is so hard to grasp here
A VPN has (at most) 2 common DNS servers active. Unless you are suggesting blacklisting an ISP all at once?

You don't understand how IANA assigns addresses. Netflix will block ALL the IP addresses associated with the VPN service. Netflix won't block them one by one, they will will block entire subnets.

The cat & mouse game is circular and as I said multiple times Netflix can never win

Netflix only has to win once to ban you from Netflix for good. If they really want to they can easily shut down region hopping.

They can do what steam does to cheaters: identify a VPN and NOT immediately block it, instead spend a couple of weeks identifying VPN using accounts. Then block it and mass ban all the identified accounts.

Cheating will persist, but the number of cheaters will be small.

This makes no sense? If both you & I are using same ISP (Bell) and they block all the addresses then neither of us can watch Netflix dummy

It's the VPN exit IP that will get blocked, not your Bell residential IP.

Are you really just trolling or this dense? Most people who use VPNs for privacy can very easily monitor ALL traffic on their network.

All they have to do is send client side traceroute and DNS server data to the server. That will easily detect the many VPN services by revealing their internal network.

Let me put it this way: the network engineers at Netflix are smarter than you. If they WANT to catch you, they can. And they only need to catch you ONCE to terminate your account with Netflix. If they want to.
 
I don't know enough about the internets and the these series of tubes to conclude what will happen. I've thought about signing up for VPN access but haven't bothered yet. What I can say for certain is that Netflix Canada is ok but not great. There are days I wish I had Netflix US.
 
Forgive me for sounding "dense" but I have Netflix and usually watch my US version shows. Now I cant and I m stuck with the Canadian version. Does this mean the free ride is over? I did add Hula VPN but it wont work anymore.
 
Forgive me for sounding "dense" but I have Netflix and usually watch my US version shows. Now I cant and I m stuck with the Canadian version. Does this mean the free ride is over? I did add Hula VPN but it wont work anymore.

I've had the same issue. It used to be easy, find some DNS server settings, configure your system and voila- USA Netflix. Hasn't worked for awhile now.
 
The Netflix folks are just doing their job, and they have to. The problem is, people used VPNs and DNS unblockers as they were simple and flexible. There are other solutions that will get around this, and there is nothing Netflix can do about it. It is very hard to protect digital content these days as there are a lot of smart people on both sides of the fence.

It really depends on what they want to do. Netflix isn't going to be interested in adopting policies so draconian that they create hostility towards the company. They want customers to like them.

On the flip side they want to license good content for those customers to make Netflix valuable to people. That is harder for them to do if they can't prevent piracy, the rights holders who own the shows won't sell the rights to Netflix if Netflix can't limit the viewers to just the regions Netflix actually paid for.

It USED to be that Netflix just ignored the VPN users who were a few rogues jumping through hoops to get the content illegally while overwhelmingly Netflix subscribers obeyed the law. They could plausibly tell rights holders that very few people circumvented their system, and nobody cared about a handful of geeks getting a few extra shows.

The trouble is these VPN companies made it so easy for even non technical people to region hop and now it isn't just a few rogue geeks but in fact a very significant share of non US subscribers who are region hopping. Your mom and dad can do it for a few bucks a month.

So now Netflix needs to do something about that, put in some better restrictions that eliminate more of the region hoppers. If a handful of rogues are super savvy and still find a way round it, that's OK, so long as most subscribers follow the rules.

My guess is Netflix will start small with silently blocking the most popular VPNs and only move up to threatening users with account cancellation if that doesn't hammer down the abuse to an acceptable level.

Ironically the fact that people are willing to pay extra for US content by posting a monthly fee to a VPN indicates that a possible solution is a two tier pricing model, where you pay extra to get all the content. Maybe Netflix can negotiate that but it's dangerous, since ALL rights holders would expect to get the higher premium rate for their content and the basic level would become a wasteland.
 
Forgive me for sounding "dense" but I have Netflix and usually watch my US version shows. Now I cant and I m stuck with the Canadian version. Does this mean the free ride is over? I did add Hula VPN but it wont work anymore.

It all comes down to the VPN you use
They need to make the update to unblock you (or you need to change VPNs)
 
They're going to struggle with enforcing this.
 
They're going to struggle with enforcing this.

Depends how tough they want to be. Banning you from the service isn't that hard since they have your name, credit card and billing address. Harder for you to fake that unless you start paying them only with prepaid credit cards or something.