Negotiating a Deal on a New German Car---Can it be done?
- Thread starter blopar
- Start date
wait two years..
and buy an Audi that's coming off a 24 month lease...they cant give them away because they are already so crapped out in the electrics and mechanicals. So I would suggest if Audi is on your mind, better to lease and get rid of the pig in a couple of years before your equity is worth next to nil.
and buy an Audi that's coming off a 24 month lease...they cant give them away because they are already so crapped out in the electrics and mechanicals. So I would suggest if Audi is on your mind, better to lease and get rid of the pig in a couple of years before your equity is worth next to nil.
Actually, cash is more of a hassle than a benefit these days. A lot of dealers aren't equipped to deal in that large a volume of currency. Couple that with the fact that many Manufacturers that offer the dealer more incentives to finance/lease instead of cash deals.Sheik said:
Now if you are going for a used vehicle, that's a whole new ballgame. Especially if you're buying from one of those off lease re-sellers that are all over the place. They LOVE cash....
Sorry to hijack this thread but i was thinking of leasing a 2003 BMW 325. Possibly off lease. Any pros and cons? Just contemplating the "if's".
Is it better to go through a dealer or a used fine car dealer like "Mario's fine cars" as supposed to BMW of toronto?
Can i bring it to any mechanic to perform some kind of used car test to see if it's in good shape?
Thanks guys (sorry again for hijacking the thread)
Is it better to go through a dealer or a used fine car dealer like "Mario's fine cars" as supposed to BMW of toronto?
Can i bring it to any mechanic to perform some kind of used car test to see if it's in good shape?
Thanks guys (sorry again for hijacking the thread)
bavarian said:
They are Ok cars at best. Value wise I don't think they compare to others. I've owned Mercedes and BMW in the last 5 years and will not touch them again.
When I bought an $80K mercedes in 98 I expected much better treatment from dealer when issues came up. Instead I recieved the run around and spent 3 K in lawyers fees. In the end I sued as part of a class action law suit.
Check out www.lemonmb.com
The BMW was a great handling car but the electronics were crap. The best thing about these cars is eventually unloading them at any cost. That's why the deals are so great on these cars, people can't dump them fast enough.
Two years ago I purchased the Acural RL and it's been the best car I've ever owned. The trips to the dealer are for oil changes only.
In the first year I had the mercedes back to the dealership 12 times and the problems were never resolved.
Good luck with the German cars. Status is why many people buy these cars.
I leased a 2 yo MB 400E, had it for 3 yrs, sold for profit, got great service from dealer and even a discount after the warrantee expired. Loved the V8. Bought a 10 mo MB ML430, have it for 6 years. Had one problem with tranny, fixed by MB as a goodwill after warrantee exprired. Have Audi A6 4.2, bought off lease 18 mo. Excellent service from dealer. Love V8 engines. Must say though, Acura Legend that I had for 10 years was almost trouble free and sold it for 30% of purchase price.
Check out the stats for the 5 series BMW for early 2001 and 2002, the electronics in the car were a disaster. My dealer had 21 software upgrades for the cars program. It was a joke to release a car of that stature before the bugs were solved. I'm glad to hear you had so few problems. If I purchase a top end car I expect the dealer to come through with the service.
In the end I dumped a 2 year old car for 35K on a trade in for a new RL. I was happy to get rid of it. The car spent over 40 days at the dealer for service over the 2 years. I'm only telling you my side of the story, this in the end is the only recourse that I have.
In the end I dumped a 2 year old car for 35K on a trade in for a new RL. I was happy to get rid of it. The car spent over 40 days at the dealer for service over the 2 years. I'm only telling you my side of the story, this in the end is the only recourse that I have.
THings to watch out for when purchasing a ML320 or ML430 years 98 to 2001 As published on a MB website warning potential buyers. This was published by pissed off MB owners.
Back by popular demand, here it is:
I think the brake parts are identical. All ML320's and 350's use the same stuff as far as I know. It looks the same anyways. Some 430's may even have had the smaller brakes.
Forget the remote starter, it aint gonna happen with the whole transponder in the key thing.
You could add step tubes, but not mudflaps. You could also add running boards. Brush guard should fit too. Personally I would leave it alone, it looks pretty good as it is, not to mention the wieght factor. Sport package bumpers are heavy compared to regular ones.
Anything that went wrong with 98-99 ML's is still an issue with the '01 models. They were not substantially improved until '02 with the redesign.
The '01 will probably be a bit more reliable though.
Fuel pumps - make sure you got the updated version, check filter and lines to make sure they are updated.
Harmonic balancer- check it often. This has yet to be "fixed" on any year model.
D-pillar covers crack
Aux fan fuse blows- needs upgraded wiring harness and larger fuse.
Window switches - yer left front will go down and not come back up!
Defroster vent likes to pop out of dash, replacement is easy.
Door locks like to fail, jump up and down. replace latch to fix.
Oil consumption- check oil level regularly, use only mobil 1 0w40, change more often than required.
Trans connector leaks- new o-rings to fix- updated parts available.
Oil level sensor- make sure it works and doesn't flash low oil for no reason.
Transfer case shift motor - make sure low range light doesn't flash on start up.
Leaking canister shut off valves were still prevalent during '01.
Leaking washer fluid tank- still an issue to this day, even with updated parts.
Tail gate lock breaks, allows tailgate to open when locked. Replace outer handle assembly.
Sunroof wind deflectors break. Replacement kit available.
Catalytic converters break in half, or rattle. Replacement required. Must remove torsion bars and reset ride hieght after replacement.
Bubbling center console armrest- replace.
Seat side trim cracks, falls off - updated parts are stronger.
Tele aid- banner year for problems. Disconnect.
MCS unit- there are a number of problems. Updated part may fix.
Sunroof accordians fall off - glue back on.
Wind noise- test drive before you buy. Usually no fixing that.
Vehicle stalls when hot - crank position sensor failure. Replace.
Vehicle will not start - fuel pump.
Vehicle will start then immediately stall- replace keys or das module.
Self adaptations at limit, part load or idle, right or left bank or both - replace mass air sensor, intake duct seals, air filter.
Hesitation on acceleration- updated ME control unit will greatly reduce this issue, along with random misfires, runs like crap, etc.....
EGR fault codes- go ahead and replace the valve assembly and the EGR tube. Saves everyone a lot of trouble in the long run.
Lifter noise- replace all compensating elements, inspect cams and followers, replace as needed.
Vehicle won't start, already replaced fuel pump and or no voltage to pump. Check electrical connector on chassis near left rear wheel, and look for burnt connector under fuse box underhood.
SRS light illuminated- updated side bag connectors available, also seat occupied recognition sensor in right front seat has been a problem.
Seat heater does not heat evenly- replace heating pads, maybe seat cover?
Rear seats folded flat, now they are locked to the floor, can't get them up. - DONT EVER PUT ANYTHING UNDER YOUR SEATS. ANY OF THEM. Check to make sure there is nothing there before folding flat. Too many times the cables are broken or popped loose by a missing shoe or some doodad left under the rear seat.
Lower power steering hose blows off- recall in effect. Benz will cover this part for 10 years regardless of mileage. Install new hose and clamp.
Door insulation falls off, leaves gluey residue on windows and sunroof- remove, discard. Installing more just means it will fail again later. There are updated parts available, with mixed results. Its impossible to get all the glue off the door, and what happens when your new glue sticks to the old glue, which then fails?
Coolant flush every 3 years.
Brake flush every 2 years.
Air filter due at 60K
Fuel filter due at 60K
Spark plugs due at 100K
Dust filter and wiper blades part of B service.
Trans is filled for life, requires no service and there is no dipstick in the tube.
No recommended diff service interval either.
No recommended tranfer case service either.
Brake life varys widely by driver.
Tires last longer on ML's than anything else. Expect your 17" to wear faster.
Hope this is enough to keep you on top of things for a while. I probably forgot something along the way...... Enjoy your new vehicle!
***Keep in mind I just cut and pasted, No way am I retyping all this! It may not make perfect sense since it has been taken out of original context***
Back by popular demand, here it is:
I think the brake parts are identical. All ML320's and 350's use the same stuff as far as I know. It looks the same anyways. Some 430's may even have had the smaller brakes.
Forget the remote starter, it aint gonna happen with the whole transponder in the key thing.
You could add step tubes, but not mudflaps. You could also add running boards. Brush guard should fit too. Personally I would leave it alone, it looks pretty good as it is, not to mention the wieght factor. Sport package bumpers are heavy compared to regular ones.
Anything that went wrong with 98-99 ML's is still an issue with the '01 models. They were not substantially improved until '02 with the redesign.
The '01 will probably be a bit more reliable though.
Fuel pumps - make sure you got the updated version, check filter and lines to make sure they are updated.
Harmonic balancer- check it often. This has yet to be "fixed" on any year model.
D-pillar covers crack
Aux fan fuse blows- needs upgraded wiring harness and larger fuse.
Window switches - yer left front will go down and not come back up!
Defroster vent likes to pop out of dash, replacement is easy.
Door locks like to fail, jump up and down. replace latch to fix.
Oil consumption- check oil level regularly, use only mobil 1 0w40, change more often than required.
Trans connector leaks- new o-rings to fix- updated parts available.
Oil level sensor- make sure it works and doesn't flash low oil for no reason.
Transfer case shift motor - make sure low range light doesn't flash on start up.
Leaking canister shut off valves were still prevalent during '01.
Leaking washer fluid tank- still an issue to this day, even with updated parts.
Tail gate lock breaks, allows tailgate to open when locked. Replace outer handle assembly.
Sunroof wind deflectors break. Replacement kit available.
Catalytic converters break in half, or rattle. Replacement required. Must remove torsion bars and reset ride hieght after replacement.
Bubbling center console armrest- replace.
Seat side trim cracks, falls off - updated parts are stronger.
Tele aid- banner year for problems. Disconnect.
MCS unit- there are a number of problems. Updated part may fix.
Sunroof accordians fall off - glue back on.
Wind noise- test drive before you buy. Usually no fixing that.
Vehicle stalls when hot - crank position sensor failure. Replace.
Vehicle will not start - fuel pump.
Vehicle will start then immediately stall- replace keys or das module.
Self adaptations at limit, part load or idle, right or left bank or both - replace mass air sensor, intake duct seals, air filter.
Hesitation on acceleration- updated ME control unit will greatly reduce this issue, along with random misfires, runs like crap, etc.....
EGR fault codes- go ahead and replace the valve assembly and the EGR tube. Saves everyone a lot of trouble in the long run.
Lifter noise- replace all compensating elements, inspect cams and followers, replace as needed.
Vehicle won't start, already replaced fuel pump and or no voltage to pump. Check electrical connector on chassis near left rear wheel, and look for burnt connector under fuse box underhood.
SRS light illuminated- updated side bag connectors available, also seat occupied recognition sensor in right front seat has been a problem.
Seat heater does not heat evenly- replace heating pads, maybe seat cover?
Rear seats folded flat, now they are locked to the floor, can't get them up. - DONT EVER PUT ANYTHING UNDER YOUR SEATS. ANY OF THEM. Check to make sure there is nothing there before folding flat. Too many times the cables are broken or popped loose by a missing shoe or some doodad left under the rear seat.
Lower power steering hose blows off- recall in effect. Benz will cover this part for 10 years regardless of mileage. Install new hose and clamp.
Door insulation falls off, leaves gluey residue on windows and sunroof- remove, discard. Installing more just means it will fail again later. There are updated parts available, with mixed results. Its impossible to get all the glue off the door, and what happens when your new glue sticks to the old glue, which then fails?
Coolant flush every 3 years.
Brake flush every 2 years.
Air filter due at 60K
Fuel filter due at 60K
Spark plugs due at 100K
Dust filter and wiper blades part of B service.
Trans is filled for life, requires no service and there is no dipstick in the tube.
No recommended diff service interval either.
No recommended tranfer case service either.
Brake life varys widely by driver.
Tires last longer on ML's than anything else. Expect your 17" to wear faster.
Hope this is enough to keep you on top of things for a while. I probably forgot something along the way...... Enjoy your new vehicle!
***Keep in mind I just cut and pasted, No way am I retyping all this! It may not make perfect sense since it has been taken out of original context***
Keep in mind the high price of oil changes for BMW. I also have an acura and have been very happy with it.
As with another post, timing is everything. I followed what phil Edmonds suggested in the lemon aid guide. Wiat until the new model year comes out and buy one of the cars the dealer is trying to get rid of in order to have space for the new cars. Also buy at end of month when reps are trying to reach targerts. I sent a fax to 8 different acura dealers with all specs that I wanted on a Monday. I told them what my down payment would be and stated that I would purchase from the dealer with the best price. I saved $3500 and had some options thrown in on a showroom model. One dealer couldn't believe the price his competitor gave to me. Hw was unwilling to even match the price.
x
As with another post, timing is everything. I followed what phil Edmonds suggested in the lemon aid guide. Wiat until the new model year comes out and buy one of the cars the dealer is trying to get rid of in order to have space for the new cars. Also buy at end of month when reps are trying to reach targerts. I sent a fax to 8 different acura dealers with all specs that I wanted on a Monday. I told them what my down payment would be and stated that I would purchase from the dealer with the best price. I saved $3500 and had some options thrown in on a showroom model. One dealer couldn't believe the price his competitor gave to me. Hw was unwilling to even match the price.
x
Wait a minute, what am I missing here. Last year BMW ran advertisements saying that their used cars have one of the highest residual values in the industry?brat_man_7 said:
I tend to agree with that since the kids in Woodbridge just spend a fortune on 5 year old 325s.
I gave some serious consideration to the same thing a couple of months ago. Some of the newer (2005ish) cars if certified come with an extended warranty which tempted me but the costs for service worried me. I ended up going with a new car that was cheaper and had more stuff (but not the BMW name).incognito said:
