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Muslims Outnumber Catholics in Vienna Schools

Vinson

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Nov 24, 2023
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Maybe this is why the extreme right is surging in Europe.

They are now the largest religious group in Vienna’s primary schools: a third of girls and boys are Muslim. Only one in five children is Catholic. City Councillor for Education Christoph Wiederkehr (NEOS) is therefore in favour of a new school subject ‘Democracy’ instead of compulsory religious education.
The current figures were collected by the Department of Education at public primary schools and therefore do not include the approximately ten per cent of public schools. According to the figures, 35 per cent of primary school pupils are Muslim, 26 per cent are of no religion, 21 per cent are Catholic, 13 per cent are Orthodox and two per cent are Protestant or belong to another denomination. If one takes charter schools into account, the proportion of Muslims would probably fall slightly, sociologist Kenan Güngör told journalists on Tuesday.

Compared to the 2016/17 school year, the percentages have thus shifted significantly – although the figures were collected differently back then and are not directly comparable; there were some gaps. According to data from the city school council at the time, seven years ago 31 per cent were Catholic, 28 per cent Muslim and 17 per cent of no religious denomination.

In view of these figures, Wiederkehr renewed his call for ‘Living in a democracy’ lessons to be compulsory for all pupils from the first year of primary school. This should teach democracy, values and ethics as well as knowledge about all recognised religions. In contrast, a separate religion subject should only be added to the timetable on request.

Wiederkehr believes that the current structure with ethics lessons only from upper secondary school onwards and only if religion is opted out of is fundamentally wrong. However, a change can only be made via a federal law – and here he has already been repeatedly rejected by the ÖVP and the Greens. ‘But I am very persistent in this regard.’

In his opinion, the new course on democracy instead of religion should be introduced throughout Austria, even if the high number of Muslim children is primarily an urban phenomenon. Within Muslims, there is an increased proportion of people who treat other groups with contempt – such as Jews, LGBTIQ people or women. However, tendencies to devalue other groups are independent of religion – see right-wing extremism – and dealing with democracy and values is relevant for all children in Austria. ‘But of course you can set different priorities.’
Güngör sees several parallel developments in schools. Due to the high level of immigration from the Islamic-Arabic region, more people are coming into the country who tend to be more religious – which in itself and at most schools is not yet a major problem. In some locations, however, there are certain ideas of superiority based on religion.

At the same time, scepticism towards Islam has increased in society. ‘Muslim pupils are naturally aware of this.’ They therefore feel more protected in schools with a high proportion of Muslims. However, it is precisely there that there are these tendencies to devalue those of other faiths. ‘We have to think both ways here.’ This polarisation must be tackled.

 

Kusa

Underestimate at your own peril
Oct 8, 2022
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Maybe this is why the extreme right is surging in Europe.

They are now the largest religious group in Vienna’s primary schools: a third of girls and boys are Muslim. Only one in five children is Catholic. City Councillor for Education Christoph Wiederkehr (NEOS) is therefore in favour of a new school subject ‘Democracy’ instead of compulsory religious education.
The current figures were collected by the Department of Education at public primary schools and therefore do not include the approximately ten per cent of public schools. According to the figures, 35 per cent of primary school pupils are Muslim, 26 per cent are of no religion, 21 per cent are Catholic, 13 per cent are Orthodox and two per cent are Protestant or belong to another denomination. If one takes charter schools into account, the proportion of Muslims would probably fall slightly, sociologist Kenan Güngör told journalists on Tuesday.

Compared to the 2016/17 school year, the percentages have thus shifted significantly – although the figures were collected differently back then and are not directly comparable; there were some gaps. According to data from the city school council at the time, seven years ago 31 per cent were Catholic, 28 per cent Muslim and 17 per cent of no religious denomination.

In view of these figures, Wiederkehr renewed his call for ‘Living in a democracy’ lessons to be compulsory for all pupils from the first year of primary school. This should teach democracy, values and ethics as well as knowledge about all recognised religions. In contrast, a separate religion subject should only be added to the timetable on request.

Wiederkehr believes that the current structure with ethics lessons only from upper secondary school onwards and only if religion is opted out of is fundamentally wrong. However, a change can only be made via a federal law – and here he has already been repeatedly rejected by the ÖVP and the Greens. ‘But I am very persistent in this regard.’

In his opinion, the new course on democracy instead of religion should be introduced throughout Austria, even if the high number of Muslim children is primarily an urban phenomenon. Within Muslims, there is an increased proportion of people who treat other groups with contempt – such as Jews, LGBTIQ people or women. However, tendencies to devalue other groups are independent of religion – see right-wing extremism – and dealing with democracy and values is relevant for all children in Austria. ‘But of course you can set different priorities.’
Güngör sees several parallel developments in schools. Due to the high level of immigration from the Islamic-Arabic region, more people are coming into the country who tend to be more religious – which in itself and at most schools is not yet a major problem. In some locations, however, there are certain ideas of superiority based on religion.

At the same time, scepticism towards Islam has increased in society. ‘Muslim pupils are naturally aware of this.’ They therefore feel more protected in schools with a high proportion of Muslims. However, it is precisely there that there are these tendencies to devalue those of other faiths. ‘We have to think both ways here.’ This polarisation must be tackled.

Fact: This article doesn't provide any new information. Every time the West invades the Middle East, the Muslim population here increases—this has been the ongoing trend. When you disrupt a region, you become responsible for the consequences.

Fact: Secondly, I am not aware of any religion that considers itself inferior. All religions believe they are superior to others, which is why their followers adhere to them. Generally, Muslims tend to be more practicing than most. Jews often see their religion as exclusive, while Christianity teaches that salvation is only attainable through belief in Jesus.

The notion that tendencies to devalue others are independent of religion is nonsense! Consider the Taliban, the Settler Jews in Israel, or the Dutch Reformed Church that implemented apartheid in South Africa, coz of jingoism. Many Hindus in modern-day India loathe Muslims. And let's not forget that white nationalists, who are predominantly Christians, certainly don't harbor any love for Jews and Muslims.

The terms infidels, Goyim, and pagans all have religious connotations and origins

Fact: The increase in the number of Muslims is primarily due to immigration, largely resulting from refugees caused by Western actions.

It's also noteworthy that there are more converts to Islam than to any other religion, particularly among white women.

Please tell me something I don't know, is new or I don't remember...
 
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Vinson

Well-known member
Nov 24, 2023
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Fact: This article doesn't provide any new information. Every time the West invades the Middle East, the Muslim population here increases—this has been the ongoing trend. When you disrupt a region, you become responsible for the consequences.

Fact: Secondly, I am not aware of any religion that considers itself inferior. All religions believe they are superior to others, which is why their followers adhere to them. Generally, Muslims tend to be more practicing than most. Jews often see their religion as exclusive, while Christianity teaches that salvation is only attainable through belief in Jesus.

The notion that tendencies to devalue others are independent of religion is nonsense! Consider the Taliban, the Settler Jews in Israel, or the Dutch Reformed Church that implemented apartheid in South Africa. Many Hindus in modern-day India loathe Muslims. And let's not forget that white nationalists, who are predominantly Christians, certainly don't harbor any love for Jews and Muslims.

The terms infidels, Goyim, and pagans all have religious connotations and origins

Fact: The increase in the number of Muslims is primarily due to immigration, largely resulting from refugees caused by Western actions.

It's also noteworthy that there are more converts to Islam than to any other religion, particularly among white women.

Please tell me something I don't know, is new or I don't remember...
I'm glad you know all that information. I disagree that everything is to be blamed on the West. Millions of Syrians are in Europe because of their civil wars. But I blame Germany for taking in the 7 million Turks. Things will change with right wing goverments.
 
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WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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I agree with your comment. November 5th will be the day the USA will start a new chapter.
As an American, I can tell you November 5th is being over-dramatized to motivate each party's voters. The most likely outcome is a split Federal government. Perhaps, we can then put some of this Trump versus Biden and the Democrats grudge match behind us.
 
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Kusa

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Oct 8, 2022
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I'm glad you know all that information. I disagree that everything is to be blamed on the West. Millions of Syrians are in Europe because of their civil wars. But I blame Germany for taking in the 7 million Turks. Things will change with right wing goverments.
What takes the US and Russia to Syria...proxy wars. How many Libyans were in the West before NATO invaded, a few thousands? How many are there now...tens of thousands?

Things will change with the right wing government, no doubt but with the changing demographic you or I don't the consequences of such change. Just visit Brampton (Punjabi) or Markham (Chinese) or Mississauga (Arabs) then tell me how you envision changes there...
 
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southpaw

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May 21, 2002
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When you disrupt a region, you become responsible for the consequences.
What takes the US and Russia to Syria...proxy wars.
Right on both counts. Wouldn't it be better for the West to stop intervening in the Middle East?

The Gulf states will still sell you their oil. They sell it to China and India. It's not like they can do anything else for money.
 

Lenny59

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May 25, 2023
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The whole Western world is imploding and our governments are at the centre of making sure it happens.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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As an American, I can tell you November 5th is being over-dramatized to motivate each party's voters. The most likely outcome is a split Federal government. Perhaps, we can then put some of this Trump versus Biden and the Democrats grudge match behind us.
Isn't it more a case of Red State fundamentalist Christianity vs Democratic Normies?
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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Come to your own conclusions
How about Richard the Lionheart massacring the Muslim inhabitants when he conquered Acre?

Or the King of Spain massacring the Jews and Muslims when he re took Granada?
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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I'm glad you know all that information. I disagree that everything is to be blamed on the West. Millions of Syrians are in Europe because of their civil wars. But I blame Germany for taking in the 7 million Turks. Things will change with right wing goverments.
The US has been at war for 235 of its 238 years of existence.
 

WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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Isn't it more a case of Red State fundamentalist Christianity vs Democratic Normies?
Your postings suggest that you have been influenced by the media narrative that Christian fundamentalists are exerting too much power in politics. There are certainly Christian fundamentalists in Red states as well as some in Blue states. I'm guessing they also exist in every Canadian province.

Where the media tends to see Christian fundamentalism, I simply see more conservative Americans. Someone in rural America is going to have different experiences than someone in NYC, Chicago, LA, etc. and likely different beliefs. Often they believe in limited government which in itself is not a Christian tenet.

I myself have no problem with "godliness" as a part of the social fabric.
 
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southpaw

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Or the King of Spain massacring the Jews and Muslims when he re took Granada?
To retake something, it had to be yours first. How do you retake something that was taken from you by force? With flowers and candles?
 
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