Most difficult university major?

[Keebler Elf]

Your interpretation is that all nonwhites are immigrants, ergo: all whites are nonimmigrants, and therefore, Canadian.

Buddy, did you even read my post? Cuz if you did, you need to take some remedial English language courses. I have no clue what "study" you're talking about as, conveniently, no link was provided.

Nowhere did I say that all immigrants are nonwhites. In fact, I made reference to Italians and the Irish - who I, along with most people with a grain of common sense, would consider "white". That being said, the vast majority of new immigrants are nonwhites, but that's to be expected since Europe is no longer a prime source of immigrants to Canada. Regardless, everything I said is equally applicable to whites or nonwhites.

Ya know, maybe you should consider getting your facts straight before citing a study that you: a) don't even know the source of; and b) don't even have a link for...

 

[anon1]

http://www.crr.ca/Load.do?section=4&subSection=6&id=371&type=2

The study is based on race and immigrant status.

The results are further reinforced by the segmented nature of the workforce along racial lines. Racialized group members are over-represented in many low-paying occupations, contributing to the precariousness of their employment, while they are very prominently under-represented in high or better paying jobs. For example, racialized groups were over-represented (46%) in such jobs as the textile industry, light manufacturing and service sector.

According to Statistics Canada in 2001, male immigrants with a university degree earned 55.8% less than their Canadian-born counterparts while women earned 56.6% less than their female counterparts.

 

[someone]

That's why philosophy trumps your technical knowledge. Your study in the sciences and
mathematics doesn't allow you to expand your knowledge to include the human condition.

Einstein and Newton and Descartes were also philsophers and to some extent
theologically motivated.

Science doesn't deal with the heart and the soul and the spirit of the human condition.
Only philosophy and theology and poetry and literature deals with the heart of darkness
and the human condition.

Don. Back to my reading St. Augustine of Hippo's "Confessions".
Confusius wasn't a mathematician. He was a student of the human condition

DQ, I respect your opinions but I have to at least partially disagree with one aspect of them in this case. At its very basics mathematics is logic in its most pure form. Thus, I would say that it is relevant to the human condition. I agree that alone, logic is not enough to understand “the heart and the soul of the human condition”. Nonetheless, I would say that at least an intuitive understanding of what mathematics would imply is a necessary (but not a sufficient condition, to use the language of mathematics) to understand the human condition. Indeed, I would say that those who have applied mathematics to the “human condition” have made contributions to such an understanding.

All this being said, I've had too much to dinrk tonight to be posting on such serious issues

 

[DateMasamune]

Does Plato's Forms have anything to do with this?

 

[someone]

We ponder best when we are inspired by the fruit of the vine.
From Jove's sweet nector we're blessed. The wine of the alter.

Mathematics is only a form; it is consistent unto itself. It's a measurement.

I disagree. Mathematics is about more than “measurement”. I don’t think that “measurement” is a straight forward term to define but I assume that like most people you have in mind a cardinal notion of measurement (as an aside, I have sometimes wondered about the relationship of “Cardinals” in the RC church and the idea of “Cardinal” measurement in math). I would say that much in the human condition is ordinal which I’m not sure is what you mean by measurement. In my opinion, much of set theory (which is often used in questions of social decisions) is very effective in highlighting important questions concerning the human condition.

But, it is not a truth. Truth is our subjective understanding of the expansive,unimaginable complexity of the universe, of reality.

At the risk of getting into an unwinable debate about what truth is, I would say that if mathematics disagrees with one’s subjective truth, one should reconsider his/her subjective truth is.

Facts and measurements area function of a measuring tool, mathematics - the purest of all art forms.
For all that it doesn't provide the substance of our human existence.
It doesn't enlighten the human pathos and experience.

I strongly disagree that it does not enlighten the human experience. In fact I am not sure that I would agree what any knowledge does not enlighten the human experience.

I suggest to you the Greek tragedies.

Perhaps I should study them more. However, I have read Game theory (an area that started out in mathematics) analyses of Greek plays. If you are interested, I could dig out the references and recommend them to you.

Also, the Book of Job. Reality is what it is.
We're but dust in the wind of the gods above.

Don

PS: Descartes was the first of the Modern Philosophers. He also was a major
contributor to calculius. Newton also served the Court of England as it's theologian.
Einstein's writings are filled with philosophical and theological undertones.

They seek out not only mathematics, by some the language of God; but
the human condition and pathos we muddle through.

I don’t think this disagrees with what I said as I only said that at least a intuitive understanding of what mathematics would imply was a necessary condition is needed. I specifically said it was not a sufficient condition. As another aside there are also game theoretic analysis of biblical stories.

Anyway, I think that I better understand your position now. Thanks.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Mathematics is only a form; it is consistent unto itself. It's a measurement.But, it is not a truth. Truth is our subjective understanding of the expansive,unimaginable complexity of the universe, of reality. Facts and measurements area function of a measuring tool, mathematics - the purest of all art forms.
For all that it doesn't provide the substance of our human existence.

Truth, is it Objective or Subjective?

Mathematics is the only form of objective Truth we have, along with being a form of pure logic. All else is subjective truth.
Our subjective understanding of the expansive, unimaginable complexity of the universe, reality, Theory of Knowledge, Phenomenology, Ethics, as a means to provide the substance of our human existence, are subjective Truths arrived at through Philosophy, Theology and even Empirical Science throughout history as it constantly changes and evolves as more is discovered.

 

[Meister]

Truth, is it Objective or Subjective?

Mathematics is the only form of objective Truth we have, along with being a form of pure logic. All else is subjective truth.
Our subjective understanding of the expansive, unimaginable complexity of the universe, reality, Theory of Knowledge, Phenomenology, Ethics, as a means to provide the substance of our human existence, are subjective Truths arrived at through Philosophy, Theology and even Empirical Science throughout history as it constantly changes and evolves as more is discovered.

I think my head is spinning. Like I said before, I'll tell my kids to go into dentistry. Once you are in it's smooth sailing. Money for nothing chicks for free.

 

[DateMasamune]

Ahhh ... game theory, an all too important aspect of the social sciences. But does social science even "exist"? Can we really make up theories to generalize human behavior and how an individual or society acts?

Interestingly enough, in North America and some European schools the social sciences really is considered a "science". But in certain faculties in Europe or Asia even, the label "social science" is not used. Instead, they prefer to call it "arts" or "humanities". For instance, even in Canada, for the study of politics, certain departments are called "Dept. of Political Science" or "Dept. of Political Studies" or "Dept. of Politics". One of the most well know schools for the study of politics is the JFK School of Government. And yes, it is more then just a name. In Japan, the premier school for the study of politics is called the School of Law and Politics at University of Tokyo. These schools don't use the
term "poltical science" for a reason. Yes, you can argue that their curiculum(sp?) is different and hence reflect in the name, but in the end, the
name or what name to use defines the orientation of the department/school/faculty.

So even till this day, not all schools recognize the principles of social science to understand human behavior and hence, mere theorems can not pre-judge
how a certain individual will act.

In the end, some would bring up the dsicipline of psychology and argue the legitimacy of social science in theorizing human behavior, yet, psych. itself is
still a very divided and new discipline. Freud was named the most influential. However, his findings are based on case studies which can not be elevated to the status of theories. If this is the case, psych can not be used as an example to prove that social science "works" in the way mathematical formulas work to calculate where a certain object is going to fall while falling out of the sky as the human mind does not have a constant like gravity.

"Politics is not an exact science . . . but an art"
- Bismark

 

[21pro]

It is weird to see most in favour of electrical engineering as the most difficult..?!

My dormmate in University was an Elec. Eng. Major and I would often help him with his math problems... Me, an arts student (Philosophy), my highest level of math was Calculus in H.S. but, I do admit, that I did find the Sciences and Maths a breeze in high school.

I don't think that there is one particular university major that is the most difficult... rather, what is the most difficult one for you? for me, it would have been English or Art for some odd reasoning.

 

[funguy07]

Good perspective on the ways of the Corporate world right now. While this is the way things played out for you in Chem Eng, the same thing is happening to most other fields listed above in that survey with the advent of widespread "Offshoring." Corporations are rushing to hire those in the above fields but in offshore countries where those hired receive salaries 1/5 - 1/10 of what they would pay someone in N America. This is a bad trend that only shows signs of getting worse. Government intervention is the only thing that can stop this but don't look for that to happen since for the most part Corporations are pretty much setting the agenda and call all the shots here.

Glad to see you weighing in on these aspects. I shudder at the despicable way the corporate world has changed its tune over the years. Prior to offshoring there was, and still is, this push to bring immigrants and minorities into US based professions. I would guess the same thing happened in Canada. A main reason was that the corporate world "discovered" they could pay them less. I have no quarrel with the technical competancy of these people but having worked with many immigrants, I can personally attest to them having a general reduction in communication skills. This would be expected. But just before the above mentioned push, the corporate world was insisting job applicants have good oral and written skills. Once into the "push" program, the corporate world pretty much dropped the oral and written skill requirement.

Youth today have a hard way to go when it comes to a college education assuming they intend to use it as a spring board to a lucrative career. And being naive, a good many will swallow the vast and clever false propaganda put out there by the corporate world to lure them into the college classrooms.

 

[tarkovsky]

Buddy, did you even read my post? Cuz if you did, you need to take some remedial English language courses. I have no clue what "study" you're talking about as, conveniently, no link was provided.

Nowhere did I say that all immigrants are nonwhites. In fact, I made reference to Italians and the Irish - who I, along with most people with a grain of common sense, would consider "white". That being said, the vast majority of new immigrants are nonwhites, but that's to be expected since Europe is no longer a prime source of immigrants to Canada. Regardless, everything I said is equally applicable to whites or nonwhites.

i had a government job once, where i was given a questionaire to see my ethnicity (you know, to make sure the governement was hiring on an equal opportunity basis).

the document i was given said: "please make note if you are a visible minority...portugese, greek and spanish is NOT WHITE." this is word for word what it said. i was almost shocked by this wording. there was even a map of the world with a bunch of arrows and they all lead back to england. to this day i wonder what that picture was trying to say.

also, i disagree with your statement that "vast majority of new immigrants are nonwhites". from my experience the biggest influx of immigrants in recent years has been from eastern europe. unless you don't consider them "white".

 

[goodtime]

Missing a few

Missing Library Science, Physical Ed., Sanitation Eng., Eng. Sci., and Ind. Eng.

The first 2 required a lot of concentration given the # of eye candy that pass thru those facilities. It's amazing if they can keep their eyes on their books longer than 5 mins.

 

[stinkynuts]

according to UofT's dean eng sci is the hardest major there is....getting 3 out of 20 on a test is normal for certain subjects.

You personally asked the dean of U of T this question?