Moron Winter Drivers!!!!
- Thread starter The Cunning Linguist
- Start date
This is funny because a friend accessed me of being social irresponsible For driving a 4x4 SUV but I am the one driving out to help him because his little fuel miser does not go threw the snow safely . Then he had to go a way up north for business like I have to frequently then said oh that is why you need a 4x4. A little more Gas but a little less crash
I would estimate 90% of the people that drive the Twyn Rivers route westbound through the Rouge Park know that steep hill is there. So absolutely, driver input is required, as in "I drive this every day...it looks like they haven't plowed or salted this yet....maybe I should take another route...I only have my summer tires on...WTF...I feel like holding up 100's of people today".
I grew up in a northern community.....I learned how to drive in winter conditions from an early age...and also to use my noggin....so far (knock wood), those skills have kept me out any accidents for 33 years.
A heavy white frost in Toronto, or a bit of rain, and people lose their frigging minds....
I grew up in a northern community.....I learned how to drive in winter conditions from an early age...and also to use my noggin....so far (knock wood), those skills have kept me out any accidents for 33 years.
A heavy white frost in Toronto, or a bit of rain, and people lose their frigging minds....
J
JessiMae
That's like comparing apples to oranges. None the less I do agree with the point. Not everyone can afford to drop $800 or so on a set of winter tires. Especially at this time of year when it is gift giving season. I just spent $1550 on insurance. I have never had an accident, but I am in a high risk category (under 25, insured for less then 1 yr) so my annual premium is $3100. To go out and spend another $800 on tires would mean no christmas dinner or gifts for my brother and his new baby.mmouse said:
I am not paying $1 for winter tires let alone $1k this year. Why? Because my all seasons are new. I just got my car in April.
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Because the US is a real country...
The canadian electorate are as stupid as toronto drivers are useless at driving in the snow.
MLAM said:
The canadian electorate are as stupid as toronto drivers are useless at driving in the snow.
as far as i see it .. it is the cost of doing business..... it is part of maintenance .... and winter tire to insurance would be house to new roof .... not cottage.... a cottage is a luxury... winter tires in canada are not a luxury as a necessitymmouse said:
canucklehead said:
Far too general a comment. Some of us can drive on all seasons and have common sense (slow down, increase distance between the car in front and yours).
Also, some of us grew up in cold places where snow happens a lot, not like what some call snow here in the GTA.
The biggest danger to me on the road is other drivers, not snow.
Good all season tires that are less than 4 years old can work reasonably well in the city of Toronto if one is slow and steady and leaves room between oneself and the car in front. I didn't find any problem with my commute in the snow this week, and most problems were people following too closely who braked and slid into the car in front of them because they didn't leave enough room to stop on ice. Also, changing lanes quickly to pass a car and then swerving back in front quickly works in the summer but not so well in snow/ice. Then there are the cars that try to make a left on a green light by not slowing down and taking the intersection turn at 50km and losing control on the cornering - again, in the summer this is OK, but I saw a BMW try it Thursday and the driver was lucky no cars were stopped at that intersection. Rules of physics, if kept in mind, will save one most times in city driving.
This....
...is EXACTLY what I am saying. I am not scared of the conditions...I'm scared of the other drivers...
And you DEAD ON regarding "what some call snow here in the GTA." I don't know how many times every year I have to explain to someone that no, winters here are NOT worse than Chicago...they are in fact significantly milder...
MuffDiver said:
...is EXACTLY what I am saying. I am not scared of the conditions...I'm scared of the other drivers...
And you DEAD ON regarding "what some call snow here in the GTA." I don't know how many times every year I have to explain to someone that no, winters here are NOT worse than Chicago...they are in fact significantly milder...
This was a big panic over nothing. Thursday was nothing. Maybe would be intimidating to a few people who just immigrated from Brazil or Zimbabwe, but for anyone who's lived in this part of the world, Thursday was just an average winterish day.
I was on the roads at 7AM, then again at 3:30PM, and finally at 10:30PM - nothing whatsoever to be excited about ...provided you take a few simple precautions ...and provided you were not driving on totally shot or scalloped tires.
Visibility was good, accumulations were light, very few frozen spots on the ground because it wasn't cold enough - and the snow over the packed or icy patches felt grainy under the wheels with very little slipping uless a person did something extremely sudden and stupid.
I was on the roads at 7AM, then again at 3:30PM, and finally at 10:30PM - nothing whatsoever to be excited about ...provided you take a few simple precautions ...and provided you were not driving on totally shot or scalloped tires.
Visibility was good, accumulations were light, very few frozen spots on the ground because it wasn't cold enough - and the snow over the packed or icy patches felt grainy under the wheels with very little slipping uless a person did something extremely sudden and stupid.
more salt..more salt.. heck add more crap to the salt to rust out the cars..and the conditions we had was nothing to what real snow conditions are like... people ( some) are just stupid!!! .. it is the same idiots who are driving like they own the road.. on the phone, not signaling, putting on make up, driving slower than posted in lane one( the passing lane), and the idiots who are speed freaks... but it is the way of the city.. i am looking forward to having more snow fall and hopefully some will return to driving properly in the snow.. and those that can't drive.. i will just have to have relax and wait out the traffic and smile at you as you stand outside of your car waiting for the tow truck...i just hope you idiots don't crash cause anyone physical harm ...
Anyone read the Wheel's section of todays Lake Ontario Pravda? (err, the Toronto Star)
Seems like the boys there all suggest that all season tires suck at temperatures below 6 C.
If you can afford a car, you need to be able to keep it in safe condition. If you can't afford winter tires - which extend the life of your summer/all season tires - then really you should buy a TTC monthly pass and get the hell off the roads.
Or not hobby for a month.
Seems like the boys there all suggest that all season tires suck at temperatures below 6 C.
If you can afford a car, you need to be able to keep it in safe condition. If you can't afford winter tires - which extend the life of your summer/all season tires - then really you should buy a TTC monthly pass and get the hell off the roads.
Or not hobby for a month.
Having grown up in Toronto, I learned to drive in the snow. All seasons work just fine in Toronto, especially given that the roads are bare 95% of the time in the Winter -- mind you, AWD in the Subaru helps a lot.
However you have to remember that Toronto is full of "off the boat" people who never learned to drive in the snow and never will -- which comes to my First Law of Winter Driving in Toronto
If the %&*& in front of you can't make it up the hill, you can't either.
First snow of the season, or any subsequent heavy snowfall pick a level route -- avoid hills!
Gravity traps such as Twyn Rivers Dr and DVP/Don Mills Rd. warrant special mention. At the latter location, I once had to put on my tire chains and drive up the left hand shoulder of Don Mills Rd. as all six lanes were blocked by bozos who could not make it up
However you have to remember that Toronto is full of "off the boat" people who never learned to drive in the snow and never will -- which comes to my First Law of Winter Driving in Toronto
If the %&*& in front of you can't make it up the hill, you can't either.
First snow of the season, or any subsequent heavy snowfall pick a level route -- avoid hills!
Gravity traps such as Twyn Rivers Dr and DVP/Don Mills Rd. warrant special mention. At the latter location, I once had to put on my tire chains and drive up the left hand shoulder of Don Mills Rd. as all six lanes were blocked by bozos who could not make it up
All season tires aren't the best in a snow storm or if you must drive on streets before the roads are clear compared to winter tires that's true. Winter tires have more bitting edges compared to AS (all season) and are softer. They excel in snow and ice compared to AS. Thats the pitch you always here from the tire manufactures to convince you to buy them.
However they don't tell you...
On clear wet or dry roads in the winter ( 99% of driving in the GTA in winter) a good set of AS tires will likely always out perform a winter tire in dry braking, wet braking, and cornering on bare dry/wet asphalt. Winter tires are generally noisier on bare asphalt and have no mileage warranty. They don't roll as easily as AS on bare asphalt so fuel economy will likely suffer a bit while you have them on.
Winter tires are better in the snow and ice true, but how many days of 365 are main roads in 416 and 905 covered with snow? I'd say 12, if that.
I'll stick with a good set of AS tires year round, ones that have good traction ratings in the snow. Consumer Reports for example is an excellent source for this information.
Also the argument that buying winter tires will extend the lifespan of your AS tires is nullified by the fact that AS tires should be replaced after 6 years regardless of how many km. you have on them. Rubber drys out, cracks and hardens reducing traction even when not in use.
However they don't tell you...
On clear wet or dry roads in the winter ( 99% of driving in the GTA in winter) a good set of AS tires will likely always out perform a winter tire in dry braking, wet braking, and cornering on bare dry/wet asphalt. Winter tires are generally noisier on bare asphalt and have no mileage warranty. They don't roll as easily as AS on bare asphalt so fuel economy will likely suffer a bit while you have them on.
Winter tires are better in the snow and ice true, but how many days of 365 are main roads in 416 and 905 covered with snow? I'd say 12, if that.
I'll stick with a good set of AS tires year round, ones that have good traction ratings in the snow. Consumer Reports for example is an excellent source for this information.
Also the argument that buying winter tires will extend the lifespan of your AS tires is nullified by the fact that AS tires should be replaced after 6 years regardless of how many km. you have on them. Rubber drys out, cracks and hardens reducing traction even when not in use.
s-husky said:
Yeah you're right, the cost is offset over time. However, one still has to pay the $$ up front to buy them and this is the main concern for some people. BTW, $150+ a set is probably cheap quality tire. You can't get Michelin or Pirelli for this price, right?
s-husky said:
Yes you are right, specialized surface is the key word, and all seasons generally grip better on bare asphalt than winter tires do.
Commercials for winter tires always show vehicles driving on snow or ice surfaces.
In Consumer Reports recent tests for (12 brands I think) the winter tires performance ratings for bare road conditions (wet and dry )were marginal to poor in most cases. Snow and ice conditions were very good of course.
If I was to get winter tires it would be the Continentals, they weren't as good as some of the others in the snow, however, their performance on bare roads out shined all the others. With tires there are always trade offs in other conditions when targeting a certain road condition.
You have to be the judge of how much driving you spend on snow and ice and decide if the cost is warranted for winter tires.
Personally for me, I don't think they are worth it for the driving I do in the GTA, all seasons have been adequate for me. I will spend the money on hookers instead.
Its your money and your vehicle, if you think you need them, buy them.
Don't buy winter tires thinking you can barrel along the same as if it were July.
Slow and smooth is the key in winter.
When I say all seasons I mean all seasons, not high performance low profile tires that come on some cars that still call themselves all seasons. They are NFG in winter I agree.
I think no tire will work on ice including winter tires. I never had any issues with all seasons, I have to agree with those who say that the real issue is with lack of driver skill and stupidity. It's just too easy to get a license in NA. It irritates me when people can't even do simple things like make a right turn or merge onto a highway properly in good weather. So I'm not surprised these people can't drive in winter.
