Mom makes daughter stand on street corner
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Actually...
(Ok - to be a very GOOD race car driver you also have to have a certain amount of talent - championship race car drivers are born, not made. But - just to do it, all you need is enough knowledge - and practice...hence all the racing schools and wanna be race car drivers)
You can offer all the advice you want. And yes, you might in fact stubble on some truth, given that you are also a human being. But the likelyhood that you will actually know WTF you are talking about is about the same as you having knowledge of how to exit Turn 4 at Watkins Glen at the best possible speed just because you have a drivers license.
Sorry..thank, but not thanks. You can keep your opinion to yourself.
...except for the Rocket Scientist (and the associated higher than average intellect), none of those roles require any special qualifications - just a willingness and desire to do it, and the associated practice and experience.frankcastle said:
(Ok - to be a very GOOD race car driver you also have to have a certain amount of talent - championship race car drivers are born, not made. But - just to do it, all you need is enough knowledge - and practice...hence all the racing schools and wanna be race car drivers)
You can offer all the advice you want. And yes, you might in fact stubble on some truth, given that you are also a human being. But the likelyhood that you will actually know WTF you are talking about is about the same as you having knowledge of how to exit Turn 4 at Watkins Glen at the best possible speed just because you have a drivers license.
Sorry..thank, but not thanks. You can keep your opinion to yourself.
MLAM said:
And your attitude speaks of self righteousness in that the fact that you think because you performed a biological function that gives you some special knowledge. I don't own a dog but I know that kicking a dog is not good. It takes common sense to raise children but not to have them .
Raising children is not like racing a car. We were all raised as children and I think we have an idea of the right way and wrong way to treat people not just children . So you have no respect for any opinions other than yours unless the person is a parent that means you could be getting advice from Charles Manson if he fathered children. Thats why I have no respect for your opinion , it's too know it all.
As a matter of fact...
I never said being a parent by definition made you a good one. Nor did I say the fact that you aren't a parent means you could NOT be a good parent should the opportunity come along.
I AM saying that if you have never been a parent then the scenario in question is EXACTLY the sort of thing that divides people (as we can see here).
If you've never been a parent you might (probably?) react with horror. You might blame to parent for the child's behavior, as others have done. You might think there is a formula for parenting, which has been vaguely alluded to in other posts.
On the other hand, if you ARE a parent, you know that sometimes the best parent still have children who grow up to be "failures" (for lack of better word) due to a host of possible reasons...social, phychological, whatever. That as a parent you are the biggest influence on your child, but not the only, and that ultimately everyone makes of their life what they chose...even at 14.
If you are a parent then you know what it is like to have tried everything else you can think of, and thus be compelled by the LOVE you have for your child to do something "extreme"...which is exactly what this
""This may not work. I'm not a professional," said Henderson, a 34- year-old mother of three. "But I felt I owed it to my child to at least try." "
...and this...
She already has been forced by her parents to give up basketball and track because of slipping grades, and said she hopes to improve in school so she can play next year.
...tells me. If you aren't a parent you can't empathize with the anguish that mother went through when making the decision to do this - knowing that yes, it would more than likely embarass her child, but that was the lesser of the evils being faced.
If you aren't a parent then you have know idea what it means when parent says "I know my child"...and accordingly they know just how much they can push their child and what they can take. You judge this woman behavior because you think it is damaging to the child...but isn't THAT arrogant to think you know that woman's child better than she does?
"I don't have children but I sure as hell don't need to have children to identify which parents care and which parents don't care about their children. "
See...this is where we differ. You THINK you can identify this based on how you think parenting should be done...even though you have no experience doing it. You have NO IDEA how far off you are...you CANNOT judge how much a parent cares or doesn't care base on what your eyes can see in the moment. Parenting is a 24/7 job that has good moments and bad ones, that has ups and downs, that has good days and bad days. Just because you see someone lose their temper with a child doesn't mean they don't love them with all their heart - it means they are human. But if you don't have kids you don't know what that feels like...you see a spat take place and you think "bad parent", without knowing that what you just saw may have never even occured before.
If you see a child being abused - of course that is bad. And yes, at the TRUE extreme I think we can all identify "bad parents".
But if you WERE a parent, you'd know that this wasn't even close.
This was a woman who loved her child so much that after trying everything else was willing to stick her neck out there and try something else.
You know what the telltale sign was...the one I picked up on as a parent?
She stood NEXT TO HER KID. Had she left her there alone..I might feel different. But she STOOD THERE...to make sure no harm came to her...to make sure they went through whatever they were going to experience with this stunt TOGETHER. To wipe her child's tears had there been any. To wisk her little flower away had indeed it turned out her judgement was wrong and it was too much.
You people have no idea what you are talking about. But...because you aren't parents...you don't know that.
...YES damn it!!Cardinal Fang said:
I never said being a parent by definition made you a good one. Nor did I say the fact that you aren't a parent means you could NOT be a good parent should the opportunity come along.
I AM saying that if you have never been a parent then the scenario in question is EXACTLY the sort of thing that divides people (as we can see here).
If you've never been a parent you might (probably?) react with horror. You might blame to parent for the child's behavior, as others have done. You might think there is a formula for parenting, which has been vaguely alluded to in other posts.
On the other hand, if you ARE a parent, you know that sometimes the best parent still have children who grow up to be "failures" (for lack of better word) due to a host of possible reasons...social, phychological, whatever. That as a parent you are the biggest influence on your child, but not the only, and that ultimately everyone makes of their life what they chose...even at 14.
If you are a parent then you know what it is like to have tried everything else you can think of, and thus be compelled by the LOVE you have for your child to do something "extreme"...which is exactly what this
""This may not work. I'm not a professional," said Henderson, a 34- year-old mother of three. "But I felt I owed it to my child to at least try." "
...and this...
She already has been forced by her parents to give up basketball and track because of slipping grades, and said she hopes to improve in school so she can play next year.
...tells me. If you aren't a parent you can't empathize with the anguish that mother went through when making the decision to do this - knowing that yes, it would more than likely embarass her child, but that was the lesser of the evils being faced.
If you aren't a parent then you have know idea what it means when parent says "I know my child"...and accordingly they know just how much they can push their child and what they can take. You judge this woman behavior because you think it is damaging to the child...but isn't THAT arrogant to think you know that woman's child better than she does?
"I don't have children but I sure as hell don't need to have children to identify which parents care and which parents don't care about their children. "
See...this is where we differ. You THINK you can identify this based on how you think parenting should be done...even though you have no experience doing it. You have NO IDEA how far off you are...you CANNOT judge how much a parent cares or doesn't care base on what your eyes can see in the moment. Parenting is a 24/7 job that has good moments and bad ones, that has ups and downs, that has good days and bad days. Just because you see someone lose their temper with a child doesn't mean they don't love them with all their heart - it means they are human. But if you don't have kids you don't know what that feels like...you see a spat take place and you think "bad parent", without knowing that what you just saw may have never even occured before.
If you see a child being abused - of course that is bad. And yes, at the TRUE extreme I think we can all identify "bad parents".
But if you WERE a parent, you'd know that this wasn't even close.
This was a woman who loved her child so much that after trying everything else was willing to stick her neck out there and try something else.
You know what the telltale sign was...the one I picked up on as a parent?
She stood NEXT TO HER KID. Had she left her there alone..I might feel different. But she STOOD THERE...to make sure no harm came to her...to make sure they went through whatever they were going to experience with this stunt TOGETHER. To wipe her child's tears had there been any. To wisk her little flower away had indeed it turned out her judgement was wrong and it was too much.
You people have no idea what you are talking about. But...because you aren't parents...you don't know that.
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The mother suddenly decided to take her kid to the streets and strap a sign around her neck. And this represents involved parenting to you sheep. Talk about public-affair talk-show mentalities. Desperate measures are the last resort of an incosistent personality. And this is just the kind of upbringing this poor girl endured to bring her to the marginal grades and uncertainty she lives with now. That's not conjecture. It's psych 101.
I'm not a professional analyst just a parent. No assumptions here. I fought in court to remove my daughters from such an arrangement. My older daughter moved and my younger one was persuaded to remain with monetary incentive. My older daughter in less than a year got off of antidepressants, developed healthy interests, and started passing her school work. For the first time in her life she has friends and a social life. My younger daughter struggles with conflicts, backed up by her mom who pits her against the world. And the world is supposed to be the one out of step. Where will that leave her when she's older? Obedient to her mom and authority but resenting them all.
Just quoting textbook examples. The girl in this news piece is now afraid to express her opinions. The daughter quietly acknowledges she was bad and hangs her head in shame and this is considered a good positive outcome? To who? Not me! Give your heads a shake! Who in their sick mind would be satisfied in simply defeating this girl rather than teaching her something useful that she can take into her adult life?
I'm not a professional analyst just a parent. No assumptions here. I fought in court to remove my daughters from such an arrangement. My older daughter moved and my younger one was persuaded to remain with monetary incentive. My older daughter in less than a year got off of antidepressants, developed healthy interests, and started passing her school work. For the first time in her life she has friends and a social life. My younger daughter struggles with conflicts, backed up by her mom who pits her against the world. And the world is supposed to be the one out of step. Where will that leave her when she's older? Obedient to her mom and authority but resenting them all.
Just quoting textbook examples. The girl in this news piece is now afraid to express her opinions. The daughter quietly acknowledges she was bad and hangs her head in shame and this is considered a good positive outcome? To who? Not me! Give your heads a shake! Who in their sick mind would be satisfied in simply defeating this girl rather than teaching her something useful that she can take into her adult life?
I didn't say...
...every parent was a good one, or that I would value the opinion of anyone who was a parent. Try brushing off your rational reasoning / deductive reasoning skills. Nor did I say I have no respect for the opinions of others who aren't parents...just not others in regards to parenting or matters concerning parenting.
What I am saying is that the fact you would connect this event with kicking a dog is a symptom of having not been a parent. And which is why I'm not interested in YOUR opinion when it comes to raising MY kid.
Well, that and your biggoted attitudes, contempt for women and general anti-social tendencies...
booboobear said:
...every parent was a good one, or that I would value the opinion of anyone who was a parent. Try brushing off your rational reasoning / deductive reasoning skills. Nor did I say I have no respect for the opinions of others who aren't parents...just not others in regards to parenting or matters concerning parenting.
What I am saying is that the fact you would connect this event with kicking a dog is a symptom of having not been a parent. And which is why I'm not interested in YOUR opinion when it comes to raising MY kid.
Well, that and your biggoted attitudes, contempt for women and general anti-social tendencies...
MLAM said:...YES damn it!!
I never said being a parent by definition made you a good one. Nor did I say the fact that you aren't a parent means you could NOT be a good parent should the opportunity come along.
.
You know you are famous for backtracking . I suggest people look at your post where you said you have no respect for anyone's opinion that is not a parent. So I guess just having a baby imparts all kinds of wisdom , that's funny if not sad.
You have no idea...
I respect your perspective - honestly, I do. But you are also clearly biased based on your experiences.
You disagree with what was done. You are entitled to an opinion. I on the other hand, having been a parent (as have you) know better than to judge a parent basd on a snap shot of second hand information.
Some people would judge you to say that the fact that you chose to put your kids through a custody battle shows you don't care about them. Some others would say that your "monetary incentive" excuse is just that...an excuse...that the child knew what environment was better for her (because of course a child know what is best for them, right??) But i am sure you would offer that these people didn't know WTF they were talking about because they were not there.
BTW - where did it say that the child was afraid to express her opinions? She expressed that she was in fact humilated, but that she hoped to do better in school going forward. hanging her hed in shame is bad? If she has done something she should be ashamed of then she certainly should.
I very much think she learned something useful - that she doesn't want to spend a lifetime begging on the streets. Me thinks a lot of those "squeegee" kids could have stood to have learned that lesson in advance of having no choice but...
..that is was "suddenly". You have no idea how this decison was made.WhaWhaWha said:
I respect your perspective - honestly, I do. But you are also clearly biased based on your experiences.
You disagree with what was done. You are entitled to an opinion. I on the other hand, having been a parent (as have you) know better than to judge a parent basd on a snap shot of second hand information.
Some people would judge you to say that the fact that you chose to put your kids through a custody battle shows you don't care about them. Some others would say that your "monetary incentive" excuse is just that...an excuse...that the child knew what environment was better for her (because of course a child know what is best for them, right??) But i am sure you would offer that these people didn't know WTF they were talking about because they were not there.
BTW - where did it say that the child was afraid to express her opinions? She expressed that she was in fact humilated, but that she hoped to do better in school going forward. hanging her hed in shame is bad? If she has done something she should be ashamed of then she certainly should.
I very much think she learned something useful - that she doesn't want to spend a lifetime begging on the streets. Me thinks a lot of those "squeegee" kids could have stood to have learned that lesson in advance of having no choice but...
Only someone...
To set the record straight - I am not interested in the opinion of someone who is not a parent on any matters regarding parenting. That does NOT mean I value the opinion of anyone who IS a parent. It also doesn't mean a childless person could not offer me advice on, say, which PC to buy.
I hope you at least amuse yourself, because I have to admit, your act is getting pretty old by me...
...as sad as you thought that meant what it said literally.booboobear said:
To set the record straight - I am not interested in the opinion of someone who is not a parent on any matters regarding parenting. That does NOT mean I value the opinion of anyone who IS a parent. It also doesn't mean a childless person could not offer me advice on, say, which PC to buy.
I hope you at least amuse yourself, because I have to admit, your act is getting pretty old by me...
That's a strange name.MLAM said:...YES damn it!!
And that's where YOU are wrong. In this entire thread I never condemed the Mother. I totally agree with what Lang said. You can argue whether or not the tactic worked but I certainly wouldn't argue that the women does not love or care for her child. I applaud the effort she was welling to take to insure her child knew the value of education.MLAM said:
Not bad for someone with no kids eh MLAM?
MLAM...
Of course the decision was sudden. Deduction not assumption leads me to believe it. After all does it make more sense that this Mother had this planned out all along? Somewhere after monitoring progress and setting limits, she had prepared for the inevitability that taking her daughter to a street corner and parading her in front of strangers, and possibly people who know her is the solution to scare a whole set of values and new habits into her that she currently didnt exhibit? Get off it.
I was more impressed with the mother, who years ago made her kid write about her mistakes. Kid couldnt complete assignments or pass tests and she had a ton of excuses for it all. so the mom started a notebook for her and told her to write about it. Kid had quarrels with peers and siblings. Mother told her to write about it. Kid talked back to authority and the mother told her to write it all down. The writing was presented as a punishment but in the end the kid learned to put her thoughts on paper and see the flaws and reason in her own logic. Eventually her writing turned to a journal. The journal contained the kids feelings, goals, and desires, and she aspired to achieve some of them. Now thats a creative way to change the course of a kids life.
After all if humiliation works, whats next? I could beat a five year old until they say they like broccoli but does that really help the kid with his nutrition? What would you consider going too far? Forcing the kid to improve at gunpoint? "The gun had blanks, I just wanted to scare her. She pissed her pants but did her own laundry afterward and told me what I wanted to hear. Now she doesnt sass me anymore. Therefore it worked so it must be good."
Of course the decision was sudden. Deduction not assumption leads me to believe it. After all does it make more sense that this Mother had this planned out all along? Somewhere after monitoring progress and setting limits, she had prepared for the inevitability that taking her daughter to a street corner and parading her in front of strangers, and possibly people who know her is the solution to scare a whole set of values and new habits into her that she currently didnt exhibit? Get off it.
I was more impressed with the mother, who years ago made her kid write about her mistakes. Kid couldnt complete assignments or pass tests and she had a ton of excuses for it all. so the mom started a notebook for her and told her to write about it. Kid had quarrels with peers and siblings. Mother told her to write about it. Kid talked back to authority and the mother told her to write it all down. The writing was presented as a punishment but in the end the kid learned to put her thoughts on paper and see the flaws and reason in her own logic. Eventually her writing turned to a journal. The journal contained the kids feelings, goals, and desires, and she aspired to achieve some of them. Now thats a creative way to change the course of a kids life.
After all if humiliation works, whats next? I could beat a five year old until they say they like broccoli but does that really help the kid with his nutrition? What would you consider going too far? Forcing the kid to improve at gunpoint? "The gun had blanks, I just wanted to scare her. She pissed her pants but did her own laundry afterward and told me what I wanted to hear. Now she doesnt sass me anymore. Therefore it worked so it must be good."
MLAM said:
The fact that you think people have to be a parent to be correct as opposed to you speaks to your arrogance . Believe it or not there are people more educated than you whose opinion could be correct parent or not but you would refuse to acept it. Tells me a lot about you.
MLAM, maybe you need to put yourself in the kids place. There are plenty of people in the world ready to correct people like you and me who support the sex trade. If they had their way and could use their authority over us they would have us taking sensitivity courses and possibly wearing signs that describe how we contribute to diminishing human relationships and subjugating human beings, using all kinds of extremes (eg underage slaves) not prevalent in responsible sex trading to support their claims. How do you like being summed up by a majority of people who know nothing about you? Could your behavior and life choices be changed overnight?
If anyone tried to label you or control you, I guarantee you would mouth off to them, and try to defy or avoid their authority in the future. What led to this kids troubles? Were her values dismissed by her authority figures until she couldnt relate to them anymore? It's usually the case with rebellion. Kids may screw up but so do adults. some adults use mistakes as an opportunity to justify summing a kid up -- usually to an extreme -- usually to make a point. Kids resent this. some back down. Some rebel. It's not all on the kid or the adult.
If anyone tried to label you or control you, I guarantee you would mouth off to them, and try to defy or avoid their authority in the future. What led to this kids troubles? Were her values dismissed by her authority figures until she couldnt relate to them anymore? It's usually the case with rebellion. Kids may screw up but so do adults. some adults use mistakes as an opportunity to justify summing a kid up -- usually to an extreme -- usually to make a point. Kids resent this. some back down. Some rebel. It's not all on the kid or the adult.
If you think...
BTW...again...(really...you should work on the reading comprehension thing)...I never said a person had to be a parent in order to be correct...indeed in another post I stated that they in fact could be. What I said was that they had to be a parent in order for me to value their opinion about parenting. Again, not the same thing...
...a persons level of EDUCATION had ANY impact on the quality of parent they will be (speaking in general terms here about individuals - not speaking to the obvious fact that those with more education tend to also have higher incomes and more free time, which enables a certain lifestyle that facilitates better parenting) then you are only adding crediability to my position that since you have never parented you don't know what the fuck you are talking about...booboobear said:
BTW...again...(really...you should work on the reading comprehension thing)...I never said a person had to be a parent in order to be correct...indeed in another post I stated that they in fact could be. What I said was that they had to be a parent in order for me to value their opinion about parenting. Again, not the same thing...
So what the mutual admiration society is saying is that her intentions were good and that makes it all right? Sure why not? In fact I think I'll reload and go cleanse the city.
Dude....
..you are holding on too tight. The woman isn't your ex-wife, and apparently her (presumed) husband and the kids father (refer to "parentS" comment again for reference) was ok with it enough to let it happen. I dont' think it is analogous to "cleansing the city" in any shape, form, or manner...WhaWhaWha said:
Totally unrelated to this story but I am also curious to hear peoples opinions of those parents you see on TV that send thier kids to boot camp or prison for a day or two to scare them straight. Now mind you one was a very upsetting story of a teen boy who had taken his mothers head banged it against a wall just because the mother had told him he was not going out that late at night and she tried to stand in his way. Now some were lesser offences but by the end of spending a night or two in jail these kids were crying and begging to be let out and then the parents came to get them.
Interesting. I'd posted the same story on another board with the comment "Could have been worse. Instead of "Will work for food" the sign could have said "Will sell body for food".Chikanbaby said:
As I read the article, the mother's objective wasn't to humiliate her daughter, but to get her ATTENTION! and it sounds like it worked. No one is advocating setting out to humilate the kids - especial as ongoing efforts in that direction would be considered mental abuse. But it's not new to use some kind of "shock treatment" to get kid's attention. Just look at those programs where delinquent teens spend a day experiencing life in a jail and talking to inmates - it think it's called "scared straight" or something like that.
