Micheal Dick

[RTRD]

I disagree....

Yeah but this is different MLAM.

If a Doctor or a Lawyer were to be caught doing something reprehensible (to a degree like this) theres a good chance they may not be to practice again after they have paid their dues to society....and rightly so, these people are in a position of trust.

Now I'm not saying that a pro athlete is the same as a Doctor or a Lawyer...

BUT...

They do have an impact on people; especially young kids. Now, I think that kids should be raised to have enough sense to be able to see the good and the bad and make their own decisions regardless of what some athlete or entertainer does. But the reality of it is, these athletes do make some degree of impression. Further, being able to be paid millions of dollars to run with a ball is a privilege...and a massive one at that. As a result I think pro athletic associations should hold their players to a higher standard....ONE (obviously reasonable) strike and you're out....just ONE and it should be properly communicated so that everybody knows what the deal is.

Now where the line should be drawn is another discussion but I think its safe to say that holding illegal and brutal pitbull fights and shooting people with shot guns would probably qualify.

If he goes back to this privilege after doing such a despicable act, what kind of a message does that send people? Especially kids...Oh its ok to just do what you want to do so long as you pay the jail time..and after that its miller time...like as if nothing happened?

Thats not reality...some things are for keps and some things theres no turning back from.

...that a doctor would be prevented from practicing medicine. In fact, i am all but CERTAIN said doctor could sue from her to high heaven if some authoritative body were to try to stop him or her from practicing. Now - whether or not said doctor could garner patients is another matter...people would have a right to not see a physician because his past just as they have a right to turn off the TV and not watch Michael Vick. But being a convicted felony is NOT reason to revoke someones license to practice medicine if the crime did not involve a medical ethical violation.

A lawyer would be different - showing disregard for the law IS an ethical violation for a lawyer, and accordingly, he / she would be disbarred in this scenario.

Now, insofar as this "kids look up to" crap - that isn't Michael Vick's fault that people fail to parent their children. What they SHOULD be doing is explaining how Vick committed a crime, and accordingly, lost tens of millions of dollars, and had his career torn into tatters....so the lesson is that crime comes with a price. They should also explain that Vick has convicted by the judicial system, had paid his debt to society, and was being given a 2nd chance, and that this is one of the wondrous things about living in a democracy - that the laws have a general sense of "justice", and one of the general precepts of American culture is 2nd chances.

People are free to do what they will in regards to Vick...including NFL owners deciding he isn't worth the hassle. But Vick gets to make a best effort to put his life back together. And believe it or not, we should ALL be grateful for that...because while you might find the acts of Vick abhorrent and above repentance, society apparently has not...and we ALL probably have something in our past (like say...spending time with prostitutes?) that someone somewhere would find equally abhorrent and would deny us an opportunity to live our lives.

Casting stones is a dangerous privilege....

 

[Mongrel4u]

I am not a role model. I’m not paid to be a role model. I am paid to wreak havoc on the basketball court. Parents should be role models. Just because I can dunk a basketball, doesn’t mean I should raise your kids. - Charles Barkley

I whole heartedly agree... to a degree.

Yes it is parents job to raise their kids...

BUT

You ever wonder why it is that a guy gets paid millions of dollars to do something so insignificant like dribbling a ball and put it in the hoop? Well lets break it down.

These guys put butts in seats and move merchandise. When they get rich, many others are getting a richer as a result. So it only makes sense to pay these people a ridiculous salary to keep them playing their ass off, getting better, getting in the public eye...it just fuels the fire and really its a drop in the bucket when you look at the grand scheme of things. This clearly IS a privilege and with such a privilege there should be a degree of responsibility.

People pay hundreds of dollars (and in some cases thousands) to see them. They get paid millions in endorsements because believe it or not people (in general) WILL buy Old Spice deodorant because Sir Charles said so. Who else could do this other than a role model?

yes parents should raise their kids...but these guys will have some degree of impression on others (especially kids) and with such a privilege there should be a reasonable degree of responsibility and if it is not displayed...the privilege should be lost...theres always going to be some kid in the works thatll be the next big hype to make money off of.

 

[RTRD]

And again...

I whole heartedly agree... to a degree.

Yes it is parents job to raise their kids...

BUT

You ever wonder why it is that a guy gets paid millions of dollars to do something so insignificant like dribbling a ball and put it in the hoop? Well lets break it down.

These guys put butts in seats and move merchandise. When they get rich, many others are getting a richer as a result. So it only makes sense to pay these people a ridiculous salary to keep them playing their ass off, getting better, getting in the public eye...it just fuels the fire and really its a drop in the bucket when you look at the grand scheme of things. This clearly IS a privilege and with such a privilege there should be a degree of responsibility.

People pay hundreds of dollars (and in some cases thousands) to see them. They get paid millions in endorsements because believe it or not people (in general) WILL buy Old Spice deodorant because Sir Charles said so. Who else could do this other than a role model?

yes parents should raise their kids...but these guys will have some degree of impression on others (especially kids) and with such a privilege there should be a reasonable degree of responsibility and if it is not displayed...the privilege should be lost...theres always going to be some kid in the works thatll be the next big hype to make money off of.

...I disagree.

All of what you say is true....for ADULTS. Children cannot buy these products, or sports tickets. And the number of children actually attending major league sporting events now is meaningless. You might as well just declare them X rated events for all it would matter.

Athletes do not owe anyone anything other than to give a best effort on the playing field in compensation for their pay. It is a job. It isn't a privilege any more than your job or my job is a privilege. No one gives them these opportunities out of charity....they get paid because they have skills and abilities that are the most rare on earth. No one else can do what they do, and we are so amazed that we are prepared to pay to see them do it....and accordingly make the OWNERS of these teams rich...who realize they have to pay the "help" well enough to keep them around, else the business model falls apart.

The responsibility of athletes is no greater than that of you and me. We as a society have laws. Those laws should be followed. When they are broken, we have penalties for that. Vick paid his penalty...and in addition...lost TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars...something the average dog fighting entrepreneur wouldn't have to be concerned about. THAT is what separates him from "everyone else"...his crime came with a MUCH higher price.

But he has paid that price. And he WILL be judged...either NFL teams will sign him...or they may well decide the time off has eroded his skills, or that he isn't worth the PR nightmare. Whatever happens happens, and it will again be the just reward for his crime.

But he doesn't owe anyone anything else - especially not some moron who isn't even a fan of the sport.

Where were all the protesters when Rae Carruth was on trial for murdering his GF?

Animal lovers are some fucked up people...at least some of them....

 

[Mongrel4u]

Now, insofar as this "kids look up to" crap - that isn't Michael Vick's fault that people fail to parent their children. What they SHOULD be doing is explaining how Vick committed a crime, and accordingly, lost tens of millions of dollars, and had his career torn into tatters....so the lesson is that crime comes with a price. They should also explain that Vick has convicted by the judicial system, had paid his debt to society, and was being given a 2nd chance, and that this is one of the wondrous things about living in a democracy - that the laws have a general sense of "justice", and one of the general precepts of American culture is 2nd chances.

I wouldnt fill my kid's head with that "second chance" "democracy saves the day yet again" crap. Yes, democracy is great and Yes, he paid his debt to society and now has a second chance at life because he now has his freedom which is most important; and this is a good thing. BUT while its true that theres a second chance for most things theres no second chance for EVERYTHING. Some things are final, theres no turning back. "Michael Vick is now free to live his life - hes lost the privilege to play in the NFL (should that have happened) but hes free to do something else and thats what separates the men from the boys...roll with the punch"

Thats the scenario of life MLAM... democracy or no democracy...and No nobady is perfect or has a clean slate but... somethings...if you fuck it up its gone. Thats reality.

 

[Mongrel4u]

...I disagree.

All of what you say is true....for ADULTS. Children cannot buy these products, or sports tickets.

So if it works that well for adults could you imagine how well it works for a minor?

It is a job. It isn't a privilege any more than your job or my job is a privilege. No one gives them these opportunities out of charity....they get paid because they have skills and abilities that are the most rare on earth. No one else can do what they do, and we are so amazed that we are prepared to pay to see them do it....

Yeah its amazing isnt it? and people (in general...kids included) tend to get very impressionable when in that state...

The responsibility of athletes is no greater than that of you and me. we as a society have laws.

You're right... our relative responsibilities are no different. We all have a responsibility to others to the extent of which we have affect on others...see guys like you and I are "nobodys" our responsibilities can only reach that far. People dont idolize and look up to us and we dont get paid for that

Where were all the protesters when Rae Carruth was on trial for murdering his GF?

Animal lovers are some fucked up people...at least some of them....

You wanna start a thread about RC then do so... I'm not in this forum often but if I see it you will get the same response from me. The topic is Michael Vick so thats what I'll talk about and if you read my thread carefully it isnt SPECIFIC to Michael VICK.

 

[RTRD]

So how is that any worse...

I wouldnt fill my kid's head with that "second chance" "democracy saves the day yet again" crap.

...than expecting someone you nor your kids know to be a role model???

It is not ok to believe in democracy, but it is ok to believe in sports heroes?

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss democracy....it is the very fact that we live in a democracy that many of us can thank for not being in a person or dead from stoning due to our crimes against "The Church", or Islam. Our society has decided that "our" crimes do not warrant such punishment...and its judgment is reflected in our laws and the elected leaders who legislate them. That same process has decided that Michael Vick has paid a sufficient price for his crimes.

Again - I am not interested in living in a world where you have to pay for your sins beyond what has been decided by the collective, but instead to the satisfaction of every / anyone. Doesn't that sound like a dictatorship to you?

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Where were all the protesters when Rae Carruth was on trial for murdering his GF?

Animal lovers are some fucked up people...at least some of them....

Actually, there were protestors and scores of negative media stories - but keep in mind that Carruth was a middling player, considered a bit of a underachiever. Michael Vick, rightly or wrongly, was the face of the NFL when he was busted, up there with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. That's part of the reason why the issue was so magnified.

Rae Carruth was never going to play football again, so it's really a moot point. If he was given a slap on the wrist and there was a question of him playing again, then I could see your point. And that's why I brought up Leonard Little earlier in the thread, even though he wasn't a mega-star, just an All-Pro and starter on two Super Bowl teams. He served his time in the off-season and on weekends and was only suspended half a season, then allowed back to football with open arms and has gone on to earn well over $20 million. I found his crimes (and punishment) to be as bad or worse than Vick's. Maybe there is something to the notion that the justice system goes out of its way to go after the most famous Black people?

Full disclosure: I'm an animal "lover" (you can love your pets, just don't love your pets - LOL!) and I equate dog fighting (and cock-fighting and insect fighting, etc.) with the old Roman gladiator days - forced combatants (human and animal) that must fight or be executed (sometimes both) to satisfy a bloodthirsty - and let's be honest, cowardly - mob.


As for the role model nonsense, that is up to the ticket-buying public (and the sponsors, advertisers, etc.) If there is enough negative feedback from individuals/groups that are part of the target market (and not professional special interest rabble-rousers who couldn't give a damn about the NFL) then Michael Vick will not play in that city; if people just want to see the best athletes on the field who gives their team a chance to win, he'll get a chance to play. (See: Jones, Adam "Pacman".)

That's the beauty of democracy and capitalism - the people can have their voice heard. Anyone remember Marion Barry? He's still a politician - and that's a position paid for by all of the people of Washington, not just "fans".

 

[RTRD]

So...

So if it works that well for adults could you imagine how well it works for a minor?

Yeah its amazing isnt it? and people (in general...kids included) tend to get very impressionable when in that state...

You're right... our relative responsibilities are no different. We all have a responsibility to others to the extent of which we have affect on others...see guys like you and I are "nobodys" our responsibilities can only reach that far. People dont idolize and look up to us and we dont get paid for that

...in summary...your position is that if some kid somewhere both likes Michael Vick AND decides later in life to take up dog fighting (or anything else illegal), Michael Vick bears the responsibility....not that now ADULT...nor his / her parents.

Nope - that just doesn't work for me, anymore than I accepted the notion that Bill Clinton was responsible for the fact that suddenly teenage girls everywhere were giving blow jobs in the bathroom at school, and "hooking up" became the modis operadi versus "dating" and "courtship". It is the same sort of "it isn't my fault I failed to parent my kids" rational that I would universally reject, no matter who the actors were.

"You" are responsible for your own actions and decisions. No one else is accountable, culpable or responsible....regardless of what THEY might have done, so long as it wasn't coercion of "you". THAT is what parents should be teaching their kids...and not worrying about how what Vick has done might be a "bad influence"....

If they do their jobs right, it won't matter what Michael Vick has or has not done. Their kids will see him for what he is...a football player. Period. Not someone to admire or emulate.

I suppose I might just be giving my kid...and his parents...too much credit for having good sense.....

 

[RTRD]

This....

(you can love your pets, just don't love your pets - LOL!) and I equate dog fighting (and cock-fighting and insect fighting, etc.) with the old Roman gladiator days - forced combatants (human and animal) that must fight or be executed (sometimes both) to satisfy a bloodthirsty - and let's be honest, cowardly - mob.


As for the role model nonsense, that is up to the ticket-buying public (and the sponsors, advertisers, etc.) If there is enough negative feedback from individuals/groups that are part of the target market (and not professional special interest rabble-rousers who couldn't give a damn about the NFL) then Michael Vick will not play in that city; if people just want to see the best athletes on the field who gives their team a chance to win, he'll play.

That's the beauty of democracy and capitalism - the people can have their voice heard. Anyone remember Marion Barry? He's still a politician - and that's a position paid for by all of the people of Washington, not just "fans".

..is essentially my position. Ultimately Michael Vick will pay a "price" for his crimes. He might not ever play in an NFL game again....for the reasons you cite, or because his skills have simply eroded too much...and that would be justice as well.

But for their to be rules / laws banning him from playing is absurd. He deserves a chance to "shop his wares", and NFL owners deserve opportunity to do what THEY think is best for THEIR business.

 

[Mongrel4u]

Again - I am not interested in living in a world where you have to pay for your sins beyond what has been decided by the collective, but instead to the satisfaction of every / anyone. Doesn't that sound like a dictatorship to you?

Well, just like an individual has the right to live his life after paying his dues...others have the right to form an opinion and act accordingly (within the confines of the law)...


and if a organization decides not to give you a second chance and are not breaking any laws in the process...then long live democracy....There are relative expectations on all of us, be them conscious or subconscious....you piss off/disappoint the wrong guy/group and you're done. And guess what, they have every right to do it. Deal with it...tough for you. That applies to ME, that applies to YOU, MLAM and yes it applies to people like Michael Vick as well. That you cannot argue.

But thats reality isnt it?... paying for your sins doesnt just give you a free pass to anything you want. You have your freedom, be happy with that...now you have to deal with everyone else and they may not see things quite the same way as you....and they may be in a position to have some sort of an affect on you....thats the other side of democracy you dont want to acknowledge....I'm not knocking Democracy at all...just being a realist.


I have my opinion and you have yours...I dont think this guy should play again; it sends a bad message and I dont think hes worth it. But hey its not for either of us to decide anyways...its not about what the people want either; Its up to the ones that have the power to call the shots. Ultimately, hes replaceable they all are...he'll be replaced (either now or in time) by many more to come; some not so good, some better...BUT the people will always come and they will always pay money.

 

[RTRD]

All of this...

Well, just like an individual has the right to live his life after paying his dues...others have the right to form an opinion and act accordingly (within the confines of the law)...


and if a organization decides not to give you a second chance and are not breaking any laws in the process...then long live democracy.

But thats reality... paying for your sins doesnt just give you a free pass to anything you want.


I have my opinion and you have yours...I dont think this guy should play again. But hey its not for either of us to decide anyways...its not about what the people want either; Its up to the ones that have the power to call the shots. Ultimately, hes replaceable they all are...he'll be replaced (either now or in time) by many more to come; some not so good, some better...BUT the people will always come and they will always pay money.

is true...but it wasn't what was orginally suggested.

What was originally put forth was that the NFL was wrong for not banning Vick.

If he never plays again because no one wants his ass...that is fair.

And if people wanna protest from here to high heaven if he shows up...well...that is stupid...but fair.

But to say he should be banned because "you" don't like what he did...even though he has paid his debt to society, is a dangerous proposition. Like I stated...not many of us can say that their is nothing in our lives that someone else wouldn't take extreme exception to. But all of us wanna be able to make a living in the career of our choosing...

 

[Mongrel4u]

is true...but it wasn't what was orginally suggested.

What was originally put forth was that the NFL was wrong for not banning Vick.

If he never plays again because no one wants his ass...that is fair.

And if people wanna protest from here to high heaven if he shows up...well...that is stupid...but fair.

But to say he should be banned because "you" don't like what he did...even though he has paid his debt to society, is a dangerous proposition. Like I stated...not many of us can say that their is nothing in our lives that someone else wouldn't take extreme exception to. But all of us wanna be able to make a living in the career of our choosing...

MLAM... All I'm saying is that some things are for keeps... even our careers. We should all have the right to pursue what we want but if we get that something and screw it up, then thats on you.

Many careers/professions have no problems booting you out for screwing up..and each profession has their expectations which are reasonable given the dynamics of their position and clearly communicated. Why should this any different? Problem is there are no rules for these guys and there should be...at least a code of conduct based on the reasonable man because these guys are in the public eye and certain actions they do CAN have an affect on others (note the word CAN).

Hey, i'm not saying they have to be nuns...But lets be reasonable here:

killing your GF?, playing with shot guns in the house and killing your driver? A car trunk full of Coke? Threatening people with guns?, lethal pitbull fights? C'mon MLAM, WTH is that??? These are retarded actions...OK you dont think much of animals but you think hosting pittbull fights is a good thing to do? Would you feel safe if your kid was hanging out with someone like that?

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Where do we draw the line of what is acceptable for redemption and what's not? What is the threshold whereby we take away the right of both a player from employment and a team (business) from the ability to field the best players (employees) possible?

Further to Vick specifically, in some states, dogfighting is a misdemeanour. In fact, until somewhat recently, it was perfectly legal in many states. Sadly, it is ingrained in both the Southern and inner-city culture.

Gambling is illegal in most states, yet there is a nudge, nudge, wink, wink acceptance of it - and it is a big part of the allure of the NFL. Hell, it's the reason there are detailed NFL injury reports. So if a player bets on basketball in a state that doesn't allow gambling, does that mean he should be banned?

Let me reiterate: I HATE what Michael Vick did. But is it worse than what many others - in- and outside of football - have done? Where is the same hue and cry for banning every athlete, celebrity, wealthy businessman and public figure for their various crimes? Three strikes and you're out may be too lenient, but one mistake and you're done seems to go against all laws of fairness.

Mike Tyson went to jail for rape and when he was released, fought numerous times for over $100 million in purses. Jayson Williams was found not guilty of shooting his limo driver, but he lost his NBC job and can't get another gig as an NBA player or announcer. Kobe Bryant all but admitted that he raped that girl in Colorado, yet he has signed over $200 million in contracts without skipping a beat. Then there's Leonard Little...

Please tell us where the line is, because it appears to shift from case-to-case...

Would you feel safe if your kid was hanging out with someone like that?

Sorry, but I have to ask: what does this have to do with anything? We're not paying these people (athletes, celebs, public figures) to hang around our kids in a social setting.

 

[RTRD]

You....

Sorry, but I have to ask: what does this have to do with anything? We're not paying these people (athletes, celebs, public figures) to hang around our kids in a social setting.

...beat me to it.

I wouldn't have my kid "hanging out" with ANYONE I didn't know well enough to know what their personal values, mores and ethics were.

Insofar as hitting so guy up for a autograph - none of us have any idea what any of these guys actually do in their private lives. Turns out Kirby Puckett was a MONSTER of a human being...and people worshiped him.

Hence, I would counsel my kid against such behavior. Human beings are just that...mere human beings, not deities. The list of those worth of worship is REALLY short...and none of them got on that list hitting, throwing, kicking or catching a ball.

I played sports most of my childhood, and was a HUGE geeky fan. But I never sought a single autograph. I never saw the point. I was a fan of the games, and the accomplishments of the men is them, not the men themselves.

I think more people should keep things in perspective.

 

[rep_pot]

I am an animal lover. I think it is disgusting what humans can do to each other. For entertainment or profit. But as a human being, I have a right to stay away from those people, to avoid a bad situation and am free to make those choices. As a child or animal, I cannot. That makes it worse. I did not ask to be part of anything and cannot get out of the way of a bad situation. I am defenseless. If Michael Vick gambles, has sex outside a relationship, hurts his partner, cheats on his taxes etc. the people he is hurting have an ability to move out of the way or seek justice for the harm. Kids and animals do not. An animal give unconditional love to people, has no predjudice, and only wants attention in return. If we harm these defenseless beings, we deserve as much punishment as can be handed down. Save Capital punsihment ( which I do not believe in ). There was one comment on this article about black people. Now thats bull shit. I don't care what colour your skin is. I am talking about the audience for all sports and any other business. I don't shop at Walmart, because I believe they don't treat employees properly. That has nothing to do with the quality of goods or the prices. Michael Vick might be the best football player on the planet. Thats not the point. He chose to hurt and kill a defenseless being for profit and entertainment. I don't believe he deserves another shot a fame and fortune for that reason. But it is up to the people to decide who they will support. My question is...do we support anyone who can win a football game, regardless of the harm he has brought down on defenseless beings???

 

[Captain Fantastic]

I am an animal lover. I think it is disgusting what humans can do to each other. For entertainment or profit. But as a human being, I have a right to stay away from those people, to avoid a bad situation and am free to make those choices. As a child or animal, I cannot. That makes it worse. I did not ask to be part of anything and cannot get out of the way of a bad situation. I am defenseless. If Michael Vick gambles, has sex outside a relationship, hurts his partner, cheats on his taxes etc. the people he is hurting have an ability to move out of the way or seek justice for the harm. Kids and animals do not. An animal give unconditional love to people, has no predjudice, and only wants attention in return. If we harm these defenseless beings, we deserve as much punishment as can be handed down. Save Capital punsihment ( which I do not believe in ). There was one comment on this article about black people. Now thats bull shit. I don't care what colour your skin is. I am talking about the audience for all sports and any other business. I don't shop at Walmart, because I believe they don't treat employees properly. That has nothing to do with the quality of goods or the prices. Michael Vick might be the best football player on the planet. Thats not the point. He chose to hurt and kill a defenseless being for profit and entertainment. I don't believe he deserves another shot a fame and fortune for that reason. But it is up to the people to decide who they will support. My question is...do we support anyone who can win a football game, regardless of the harm he has brought down on defenseless beings???

Oi vey...

Honestly, you just sound like a PETA zealot who sees the world through a single lens. All the best to you - just don't expect everyone to agree...

Do you eat meat? Wear leather or fur? Are you for or against hunting and fishing? Because if you say yes to any, you are being hypocritical. And since 20% of athletes hunt and/or fish, they should be on your hit list for "hurting and killing" the defenseless. And 99% eat meat and/or wear animal hides... so are they also evil? (Since we all know how cruel and messed up the food and hide industries are when dealing with the concept of animal rights...)

Do you really believe that murder and rape victims are less innocent and defenceless than animals or children? If so, your sense of justice, right and wrong is a little off kilter to say the least...

I support second, but not third or more, chances. Redemption's a pretty cool concept and forgiveness is divine.

 

[lawyerman]

What Vick did was a horrible crime. Personally, I am an animal lover and I was pretty upset with Vick when he was convicted of these crimes.

He will pay his debt to society and hopefully will become a better person from this.

 

[RTRD]

And again...

Oi vey...

Honestly, you just sound like a PETA zealot who sees the world through a single lens. All the best to you - just don't expect everyone to agree...

Do you eat meat? Wear leather or fur? Are you for or against hunting and fishing? Because if you say yes to any, you are being hypocritical. And since 20% of athletes hunt and/or fish, they should be on your hit list for "hurting and killing" the defenseless. And 99% eat meat and/or wear animal hides... so are they also evil? (Since we all know how cruel and messed up the food and hide industries are when dealing with the concept of animal rights...)

Do you really believe that murder and rape victims are less innocent and defenceless than animals or children? If so, your sense of justice, right and wrong is a little off kilter to say the least...

I support second, but not third or more, chances. Redemption's a pretty cool concept and forgiveness is divine.

...you beat me to it.

Some people really do give animal lovers a bad name.

 

[lawyerman]

Oi vey...

Honestly, you just sound like a PETA zealot who sees the world through a single lens. All the best to you - just don't expect everyone to agree...

Do you eat meat? Wear leather or fur? Are you for or against hunting and fishing? Because if you say yes to any, you are being hypocritical. And since 20% of athletes hunt and/or fish, they should be on your hit list for "hurting and killing" the defenseless. And 99% eat meat and/or wear animal hides... so are they also evil? (Since we all know how cruel and messed up the food and hide industries are when dealing with the concept of animal rights...)

Do you really believe that murder and rape victims are less innocent and defenceless than animals or children? If so, your sense of justice, right and wrong is a little off kilter to say the least...

I support second, but not third or more, chances. Redemption's a pretty cool concept and forgiveness is divine.

Great post.

I have always disliked that phrase. Forgiveness is divine? What the hell is so divine about forgiveness?

 

[DirtyDave]

The NFL bases its conduct rules upon marketability and investment of the organization and the league. It has nothing to do with forcing players to be proper role models to kids and everything to do with brand name recognition. If the NFL might lose some fans because it did not suspend a player, it will certainly suspend that player. Vicks punishment both legally and by the NFL was grossly disproportionate in realtion to the real world. In the real world, being inhumane to animals is not a very serious crime. Certainly cruelty to animals will never carry a penalty even remotely close to that which would result from committing the same acts against people. Vicks punishment did not fit the crime. I wonder how many cruelty to animal charges the feds investigate on average?