Michael Moore's SiCKO

[osanowo]

Please, 6m wasps...... that's like calling the Upper East Side a country....

OTB

You don't want to qualify Denmark as a country but you like to extrapolate elite health care to the entire population?

Ever thought that providing the best service for the richer does not make a country fair nor good?

 

[onthebottom]

You don't want to qualify Denmark as a country but you like to extrapolate elite health care to the entire population?

Ever thought that providing the best service for the richer does not make a country fair nor good?

Go read my post.... the old and the poor get the same service I get - and for the record, I'm not rich.

OTB

 

[WoodPeckr]

Go read my post.... the old and the poor get the same service I get - and for the record, I'm not rich.

OTB

So you admit you get most of your health service in the Emergency Room along with the poor, EH?!?!!?!?.........

 

[onthebottom]

So you admit you get most of your health service in the Emergency Room along with the poor, EH?!?!!?!?.........

Actually my Dr. takes Medicare and Medicaid so the same family practice care is available. I did use an emergency room for an x-ray a year back - painless visit, no cost, just dropped in on a Saturday afternoon with my kids - was out in 30 minutes - really nice lady did the paperwork for me.

OTB

 

[papasmerf]

So you admit you get most of your health service in the Emergency Room along with the poor, EH?!?!!?!?.........

woody about a week ago I war in the ER no one mentioned insurance till I was stable (more than I can say for you).

 

[danmand]

Actually my Dr. takes Medicare and Medicaid so the same family practice care is available. I did use an emergency room for an x-ray a year back - painless visit, no cost, just dropped in on a Saturday afternoon with my kids - was out in 30 minutes - really nice lady did the paperwork for me.

OTB

I am not so concerned with the visits to the family doctor or the emergency rooms. That is a manageable cost for all but the most destitute.

I wonder what happens, if serious illnesses are diagnosed, if they need bypass surgery or surgery for esophagael cancer, to take two examples.

That is incidentally where the canadian system is below par, compared with the best national health cars systems.

 

[oldjones]

Medicare and Medicaid patents get the same service as the rest of us get.... best care anywhere.

OTB

Maybe, if they can cope w/ the paperwork—and we are talking about sick aging people here‚. In the case I'm closest to, Medicaid has finally coughed up a letter of intent to provide care (actual care still iffy and TBA, but we're optimistic). That's after six months of trying, spending the equity in the patient's (stroke, in case it matters) family home at a coupla hundred bucks a day, hiring lawyers (her insurance which did cover her care was superseded Jan 1/07 by Medicare which would not), relatives taking time off work, flying and driving across the country. Better than nothing, but nothing for such a rich country to be proud of.

Earlier you noted some UK stats about waiting patients as if they justified something.

…edit…
In April 2007, Cato Institute Director of Health and Welfare Studies Michael Tanner wrote that Britain's Department of Health “reported in 2006 that at any given time, nearly 900,000 Britons are waiting for admission to National Health Service hospitals, and shortages force the cancellation of more than 50,000 operations each year.”

…edit…of the 45 million[ uninsured American] -- many are only temporarily uninsured. Stuart Browning speaks nationally on health care freedom and the myths of "single-payer" medicine, and recently produced a series of short films to counteract “Sicko.” His research found that 26 million uninsured make at least $50-75,000 a year. Browning found that 18 million of the uninsured are young adults who spend income on entertainment and alcohol instead of managing their health.

As physician and Manhattan Institute scholar David Gratzer put it, “let's not confuse a lack of health insurance with a lack of health care.” There are many free health clinics available for anyone -- including 12 million non-taxpaying illegal immigrants -- nationwide.

…edit…The federal government mandates that emergency rooms treat all who seek medical attention regardless of payment ability. One emergency room nurse told me that, although patients are asked for identification and social security numbers in the emergency room, they aren’t required for treatment.
…edit…OTB

Because the British population's so much smaller, to equate the 900,000 waiting Britons (there's a reason they're called patients, isn't there) w/ the completely uninsured in the US, you'd have to reduce the current 45,000,000 US uninsured by about three/quarters. Your quoted expert suggests half of those are uninsured through their own negligence, as if that somehow made a difference to their need. Even accepting that would still leave you comparing around 5,000,000 'deserving' Americans w/ no insurance whatsoever to less than a million Britons, insured but waiting.

More of those Americans per 1000 will die. The UK's socialized medicine still provides better care for more of its citizens, the negligent included, for less money spent than the US does w/ its 'free market system'. More deaths per 1000 (people or dollars) than just about every other industrialized country—even impoverished, oppressed Cuba. It is clearly a very expensive market system.

Of course you would expect the most expensive system in the world to have some stellar successes, but that's about all it delivers effectively, and that at great cost. What else would you expect from a 'system' that sends the negligent and the 'deserving poor' to emergency wards and 'free' clinics for their care? Health facilities are not healthcare, and they sure ain't free. Someone's paying and getting poorer results than even the deluded commie followers of sick old Fidel. It's the best example possible that free markets are not the answer to everything.

But when their government 'solves' border security by requiring passports of everyone and no one asks how they plan how to get them out the door in under six months, the blind-to-the-obvious 'spend lots, get little' contradictions of US healthcare should be no surprise. When the President—who has great state supported healthcare BTW, as befits a monarch—does his thinking w/ his gut, who can blame the citizens for doing the same. Opening minds is hard.

 

[oldjones]

I am not so concerned with the visits to the family doctor or the emergency rooms. That is a manageable cost for all but the most destitute.

I wonder what happens, if serious illnesses are diagnosed, if they need bypass surgery or surgery for esophagael cancer, to take two examples.

That is incidentally where the canadian system is below par, compared with the best national health cars systems.

As to the Canadian system: Only anecdotal, but my father's heartvalve replacement and colon cancer surgery were both scheduled and performed within a week or two of the diagnoses being confirmed. His doctor and her recommended surgeons. Certainly could have been faster, but hardly a long or difficult wait.

 

[someone]

All I know is that we pay twice as much per capita
and live 4 fewer years than the Canadians.

Such a deal.

I think that says it all, as far as the American system is concerned.

However, your system is having negative effects on us. Canada and the United States are unique in being at near opposite ends of the spectrum as far as most Western countries are concerned. Unfortunately, anytime someone wants to reform the Canadian system by introducing a bit of private sector involvement in areas that don’t already have it, all the opponents start claiming that the change will lead to American style health care. The fact that you’re right next door, creates political problems when it comes to improving our system.

 

[danmand]

I think that says it all, as far as the American system is concerned.

However, your system is having negative effects on us. Canada and the United States are unique in being at near opposite ends of the spectrum as far as most Western countries are concerned. Unfortunately, anytime someone wants to reform the Canadian system by introducing a bit of private sector involvement in areas that don’t already have it, all the opponents start claiming that the change will lead to American style health care. The fact that you’re right next door, creates political problems when it comes to improving our system.

You forget that we effectively have a two tier health care system in Canada. One of them being across the border in the US.

 

[onthebottom]

I am not so concerned with the visits to the family doctor or the emergency rooms. That is a manageable cost for all but the most destitute.

I wonder what happens, if serious illnesses are diagnosed, if they need bypass surgery or surgery for esophagael cancer, to take two examples.

That is incidentally where the canadian system is below par, compared with the best national health cars systems.

If you have Medicaid (poor) or Medicare (old) you get the same services I get - which are pretty awesome.

OTB

 

[onthebottom]

You forget that we effectively have a two tier health care system in Canada. One of them being across the border in the US.

Yes, if you're on a long list and have money you fly to Rochester MN.

OTB

 

[Gyaos]

- and for the record, I'm not rich.OTB

AH! So if you are not rich, your financial advice might not be good either, yeah? LOL

Gyaos.

 

[papasmerf]

AH! So if you are not rich, your financial advice might not be good either, yeah? LOL

Gyaos.

Wealth is measured by how a mans family and friends view him. Not in his ability to pck up the check for your life.

 

[onthebottom]

AH! So if you are not rich, your financial advice might not be good either, yeah? LOL

Gyaos.

Shall we only listen to the rich?

I know, let's only listen to those smart enough to make more than 150k a year..... should cut out some of the noise.....

OTB

 

[danmand]

Yes, if you're on a long list and have money you fly to Rochester MN.

OTB

You fly to Minneapolis and take the Rochester direct bus to the Kahler Grand Hotel.

So tell me, can a poor person on medicaid or medicare walk into the Mayo clinic and be fixed?

PS: When you sit and wait in the Mayo Clinic, you don't see any saudi princes. Most people look no richer than me.

 

[onthebottom]

You fly to Minneapolis and take the Rochester direct bus to the Kahler Grand Hotel.

So tell me, can a poor person on medicaid or medicare walk into the Mayo clinic and be fixed?

PS: When you sit and wait in the Mayo Clinic, you don't see any saudi princes. Most people look no richer than me.

I've never been to Mayo so I don't know, I would assume the answer is yes.

Best care anywhere.

OTB

 

[danmand]

I've never been to Mayo so I don't know, I would assume the answer is yes.

Best care anywhere.

OTB

There is something that does not compute, as we say in the business. If practically everybody (or even 100 million) in the US can walk into the Mayo Clinic and get healthcare, then the Mayo clinic would have huge queues. They don't.

 

[onthebottom]

There is something that does not compute, as we say in the business. If practically everybody (or even 100 million) in the US can walk into the Mayo Clinic and get healthcare, then the Mayo clinic would have huge queues. They don't.

There are so many great hospitals all over the country - why go all the way to Rochester MN if you don't really need to.

OTB

 

[WoodPeckr]

There are so many great hospitals all over the country - why go all the way to Rochester MN if you don't really need to.

OTB

Yeah right!
Tell that to the 50 million in the US that can't partake!......