Men's rights group excluded from Toronto Pride parade
- Thread starter Fallsguy
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I still think it's better to have liberals federally so we don't run these risks- they are better with balancing civil and criminal codes
Yeah. About that.... you might want to, you know, actually check out what the details of the law are before pulling opinions out of yer arse. Thing is - you won't see any female prostitutes arrested either. That's kinda the whole shtick, you know? The law might be stupid, wrongheaded, patronizing to people who choose to become sex workers, an attempt to criminalize people who purchase sexual services from a consenting adult... lots of reasons to shit on it. Suggesting that it is going to target female prostitutes and leave male ones alone ain't one of 'em.
Correct.
The gays have the guts to stand up for their rights, not slink away into the shadows.
After being discriminated against so long and in the closet, they develop the balls because they're not going to take it anymore and complain. What have they got to lose but improve their status by protesting, and their's strength in numbers.
It's basically survival. They can't afford to be apathetic. They are a very smart bunch too.
While I understand what you're saying, I do believe that there is a LOT of MALE bashing out there. (Not necessarily straight white male bashing, but just plain male bashing).
We see it in the media all the time. How many movies have you seen where some guy gets kicked in the nuts and it's portrayed as funny, or better yet, gets shot in the groin, or has his dick cut off and it's ok.
Now imagine the reaction to a movie where a woman was to get her vulva shot, or cut off. Do you think that would be funny? Doubt it.
Also, men are portrayed as stupid dufuses time after time on TV and their wives are portrayed as wise and intelligent. That's ok. Now imagine the outrage if it were the other way round.
Lastly, I point out what seems to be happening in education. There are more and more social programs aimed at helping girls succeed in school and indeed many would argue that our current education system is built around how young females learn and not how young males learn. If you look at the numbers in university now, fully two thirds of the university population in Canada is now female.
Young males are floundering and failing and falling by the wayside and our government considers it OK.
If the numbers were reversed, they would have a Royal Commission looking into it, but because it's male (not necessarily straight, or white by the way, just male), it's ok.
It's not ok.
Now I don't know why young males are floundering. I really don't. Maybe it's video games, maybe there is something in the water, maybe it's how we're raising them - controlling their every action. Dunno.
But something is happening.
In our society, it's not ok to bash any minority segment, but it is OK to bash men.
No shit, eh? Here's just a handful of offensive comments I'm sick of hearing towards white, heterosexual men:
"If he's going to dress like that, he's asking for it."
"Of course he's guilty, it's all part of that white middle class thug culture."
"If he's worried about getting raped, maybe he shouldn't drink so much."
"I don't care what he does in private, but does he have to kiss her in public like that? Fucking gross!"
"See? He has a job and a nice house. Why the fuck can't the rest of 'em do the same then?"
"Polo shirts and pants with a belt? Fucking little savages should get their asses kicked!"
"I've got a white, heterosexual male friend/coworker/neighbour, so don't you go telling me that I've got a problem with them."
...and cap'n? If you think the sit-com trope of goofy loveable lug husband/dad and smart, together mom/wife doesn't further negative stereotypes of women orders of magnitude more than it does for men, you gotta get your head outta the fucking 60s. Simply having a black chick on your bridge and all is a start, not an ending point. And those uniforms? Not cool, bro.
What movies have you seen where a guy gets his dick cut off and it's ok? I missed that one.
What about movies where something is referred to as "being gay"? Or where women are treated like sex objects? Or where black guys with big gold grills are dealing drugs? You can't point to the treatment of men in movies as evidence that men are being "slighted" by society. They're fiction. They're often designed to tell a story or portray a point, often using stereotypes, like white jocks picking on the scrawny gay nerd, or black guys dealing drugs, or women being psycho because of the mysterious mood swings once a month. You can't point to them as proof men are being slighted because EVERY group is slighted in movies. It just depends on which movie you watch.
You say men are portrayed as dufuses and women are portrayed as intelligent, but let's review that shall we. Aside from a small handful of movies or TV shows (Frozen, Hunger Games, etc), women are damsels needing to be saved by their white nights, are have secondary roles. Who is always the hero in Transformers? A guy. Who is always the boss in the CSI shows? Guys. Who runs the multi-million dollar corporations in pretty much every movie? Men. On one hand you could argue that's just being realistic... but isn't that part of the problem? Women don't have these roles very often in real life. I don't think we need to run and cry about the odd dick joke when we horde all the money making power and the security in society. Not to mention how often are women portrayed as nothing more than sex objects? Look at some of the latest popular films: Wolf of Wall Street, American Hustle... We've got Spiderman, Superman, Iron Man, Captain America... Where's Wonder Woman? Spider Woman (yes, that's a real thing)? How about Black Cat? Even The Dark Knight's foray into Catwoman didn't have her a particularly strong woman. What about Black Widow for that matter... Sure, she kicks ass... but she's a master of subterfuge. Lying, being deceiptful, those are the traits they gave the female hero. Is it thin? Absolutely. But no more thin than complaining about a nut shot in a comedy. You can find the odd show where men are portrayed as kind of goofy and saved by their women, but you can also go back to the 60's and 70's and find that same thing. How often did Darrin need his witch wife to sort out his problems? Jeanie sure squared away the Air Force on more than one occasion. Men have been portrayed as goofy on occasion before, this isn't groundbreaking evidence of an anti-male conspiracy.
As for the programs aimed at young women... the point is that young men don't need help. Head down to York or UofT and sit in on a few classes. Visit a 3rd year engineering class and tell me how many women you see. Stop by the computer science lab and try to tell me it's not a sausage fest. Young men aren't falling by the wayside, they're continuing to excel. Same reason why there are other minority programs. See how many non-white, non-asian faces you see in that engineering class while you're there. Women outnumber men 2 to 1 in SOCIAL sciences, the liberal arts like education and psychology. But men outnumber women 5 to 1 in technology related fields. Who makes more money, someone with a degree in post-modernist american art, or chemical engineering? Yes, overall, women account for about 58% of students, but given that 52% of the population are women, that's not so far off. You also fail to consider tradeschool, which is predominantly men and more than makes up for that gap. There's also the reality that women need a better education than men to get the same job and the same pay (not everywhere, but there is no denying that white males still make more money and receive more promotions and jobs than non-white males). There aren't many women working as roughnecks in northern Alberta with a grade 7 education pulling in 6-figure salaries. No, men are not being left behind, they just have more options and you see that playing out.
Is there SOME male bashing going on? Sure. But there's bashing of everyone going on at some level. If you honestly think that men are being singled out more than any other group, you need to give your head a shake. They absolutely aren't. Not even a little. And even if they were, would you rather have to deal with a shot or two in the media or be relegated to making less money for the same work, being deprived of access to certain rights and services and suffering prejudice and abuse out and about in life? You've got it good, you've got it easy, stop complaining.
You say it's OK to bash men but not OK to bash anyone else... Except everyone else does get bashed. Just because it's not OK doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Likewise, the fact that SOME male bashing goes on doesn't mean it's ok either. But you've invented a world where men are being held down. Well, it doesn't reflect reality. To this day, the gender inequality in Canada for rate of pay is about 20%. The means by virtue of simply having a penis, you can expect to earn 15-20% more than a female. What's worse? That gap was shrinking for awhile, but has started to grow again. Men are getting BETTER pay than women, even in this world you think you live in where "young men are being left behind" and where you think they are being treated so much worse because they're the only group it's ok to treat poorly.
I think the fact that you refer to them as "the gays" speaks volumes about you and your opinion I think.
Then leave and don't come back. All I have seen in this thread from you are insulting, demeaning and mean-spirited comments. We all know that you are the smartest entity in the room. However, all your comments (and especially the way they are presented) cannot change the views and beliefs that many straight men (not all of them are white) have.
This forum is here (supported by ads from businesses that most of us patronize) to allow an exchange of ideas. Your profanity laced replies say more about you than about the concern that the vast majority of us have with societal trends, including Bill C-36.
You are as intolerant as our Conservative federal government, just in a different way.
So to adopt your style, "Fuck off you arrogant fuck and shut the fuck up you little piece of shit." Adds a lot to the conversation, doesn't it?
Not true dude. Women in their 20s without children earn more than men.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237196/Women-win-gender-pay-war-20s-earning-men-age.html
I believe that what ronzodd was saying is that the original struggles of the LGBT2QA community have been won and what is left is a corporate and tourist event. At one time the LGBTQ2A community was marginalized and criminalized and subject to action by the state against them based on consensual sex between adults. In Canada this is no longer the case. It may be true in other places around the globe but certainly not here. The event is not so much about securing rights, tolerance or acceptance in Canada but about consolidating political power and hosting an event where government and corporate interests can fawn over the LGBT2QA community. There is nothing wrong with that. This community has won the battles and the war.
To be sure there continues to be discrimination and closed mindedness on the part of some in the community. The point is that the state is not criminalizing or pursuing that community any longer for behaviour that was considered unacceptable and deviant in the not too distant past. The state protects the LGBT2QA community. What ronzodd was saying is that it is safe, profitable, and indeed trendy to support the event here in Toronto but not so much in Karachi or Kampala.
Contrast the Gay Pride parade to a John's Pride parade. The attacks would come from all quarters. We are the new reviled sexual deviants for wanting to pay for consensual sex between adults. It is our community that is facing repressive laws that criminalize the purchase of sexual services between consenting adults. We are the new gays (and by gays I mean the LGBT2QA community). We are the marginalized and criminalized group in society for the sole reason of our sexual preferences. We are in the closet, marginalized, reviled and now criminalized.
The point of this thread is that and many like it are that straight males (not all of us are white) who purchase sexual services from mainly women are the new underclass. While we may be successful and powerful, we cannot admit to most what we do or how we live based on our sexual preference. What we are feeling is that while societal trends have accepted almost every other sexual preference, ours is going in the opposite direction with the specter of probable criminalization.
You are verbose.
However...
Universities are dominated by women now. Every professional degree EXCEPT Engineering is female dominated. Medicine, law, commerce, nursing, most of the sciences are all dominated by young women. (And good for them. But it begs the question - why?)
As to sitting in on an Engineering class, I don't need to sit in. I was there for 7 years. What was interesting was the faculty of Engineering's drive to attract women and retain women in the program. (I did not see similar such programs aimed at attracting men nursing say (a traditional female program).
And just so we're clear, I don't have a problem with programs that promote women in University, or social programs that are aimed at helping women. (I don't think I posted that. I'm not one of those people who believe that one group succeeds only if another group fails, or that there is only so much pie to go around.)
What I said is that male bashing is OK in our society (and it is) and it needs to end and that nothing is being done to encourage young males like it is being done to encourage young females and that is not OK either.
The Globe and Mail did an extensive series recently about how young men are being allowed by the educational system in Canada to fall by the wayside.
While men and women are enrolling in university in record numbers, the proportion of women attending is significantly higher. Men make up just 40 per cent of university undergraduates, and they’re much less likely than women to graduate from the college or degree program they start.
Yet the phenomenon can be as puzzling as it is polarizing. Some see it as proof of society’s forgotten boys – that while diligent efforts went into helping girls learn, boys were disregarded, left to find their own way in a feminized education system.
“I’ve been accused of being a dinosaur and anti-feminist when I bring it up. But it’s the elephant in the room – the classroom,” said Jon Bradley, a professor of education at McGill University in Montreal, where the dropout rate is as high as 60 per cent in some urban schools. “We’ve got all the data, and still we don’t really want to admit there is a problem.”
Link to a very interesting series of articles:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...keg-of-sexual-politics/article4081751/?page=1
While men and women are enrolling in university in record numbers, the proportion of women attending is significantly higher. Men make up just 40 per cent of university undergraduates, and they’re much less likely than women to graduate from the college or degree program they start.
Yet the phenomenon can be as puzzling as it is polarizing. Some see it as proof of society’s forgotten boys – that while diligent efforts went into helping girls learn, boys were disregarded, left to find their own way in a feminized education system.
“I’ve been accused of being a dinosaur and anti-feminist when I bring it up. But it’s the elephant in the room – the classroom,” said Jon Bradley, a professor of education at McGill University in Montreal, where the dropout rate is as high as 60 per cent in some urban schools. “We’ve got all the data, and still we don’t really want to admit there is a problem.”
Link to a very interesting series of articles:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...keg-of-sexual-politics/article4081751/?page=1
