marriage and imigration

G

gramage

New member
Feb 3, 2002
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Toronto
I know someone through some friends at work who will have to leave the country soon if she doesn't get married. I am more than willing to marry her to help her out, but I need to sort out some legal issues first before I talk to her more seriously about this, since I want to know the deal from someone other than her going in.
1. will it make a difference that I'm not getting compensated for this? I won't accept money to do this and don't expect "other" favours, but I don't know if that will make a difference or not.
2. what things need to get combined? do we need to live together? share whatever benefits we have etc.
3. would any investigation contact my family? I would rather not let my parents know about this if I do it, so this is a bit of a big deal.
4. how can I figure out for sure why she may have to leave Canada? yes I'm gonna go through all of this with her, but what might indicate she's lying? do some reasons for having to leave result in a more in depth look than others?
does anyone hear know much about these kinds of marriages? I want to help this person (plus I wont be getting married on my own. hell I can barely even date) but I need to know what I'm getting in to.
 
gramage said:
I know someone through some friends at work who will have to leave the country soon if she doesn't get married. I am more than willing to marry her to help her out, but I need to sort out some legal issues first before I talk to her more seriously about this, since I want to know the deal from someone other than her going in.
1. will it make a difference that I'm not getting compensated for this? I won't accept money to do this and don't expect "other" favours, but I don't know if that will make a difference or not.
2. what things need to get combined? do we need to live together? share whatever benefits we have etc.
3. would any investigation contact my family? I would rather not let my parents know about this if I do it, so this is a bit of a big deal.
4. how can I figure out for sure why she may have to leave Canada? yes I'm gonna go through all of this with her, but what might indicate she's lying? do some reasons for having to leave result in a more in depth look than others?
does anyone hear know much about these kinds of marriages? I want to help this person (plus I wont be getting married on my own. hell I can barely even date) but I need to know what I'm getting in to.
Click to expand...


yes...cause if u marry a vietnamese chick, u will get 20k...
all u need is a fake wedding..take a couple of pics...thats it...

oh yeah n agd laywer...

once she becumes a PR (greencard)..u dont need to trip too much...

once she becums a Canadian, ya 20K should be finished..n u can blackmail her for more cash..or divorce her mary another chick for $20k
 
gramage said:
1. will it make a difference that I'm not getting compensated for this?
Click to expand...

If immigration get even a tiny whiff that you are being compensated they will deny her case. That said, the going rate is around $30k-50k. Some not very smart people are talked into doing it for $15-20k but most people who do this for money demand a lot more.

2. what things need to get combined? do we need to live together? share whatever benefits we have etc.
Click to expand...

You need evidence that it is a legitimate marriage. Living together, family photos of you with each others parents, wedding photos showing lots of relatives, things like that help make the case that it's legitimate. If they interview you, they might ask you what drawer she keeps her socks in to see if you are lying about living together, things like that.

3. would any investigation contact my family? I would rather not let my parents know about this if I do it, so this is a bit of a big deal.
Click to expand...

Not likely. However if there were no sign of your parents or her parents in any of the photos and such that would raise questions.


4. how can I figure out for sure why she may have to leave Canada?
Click to expand...

Ask to see the letter immigration sent her, find out what her current status is in Canada, and actually look at her documents--what visa is she on? What conditions does it have? When and why will it expire?

do some reasons for having to leave result in a more in depth look than others?
Click to expand...

If she is subject to a deportation order, or if her status in Canada is currently entirely illegal, then immigration may force her to leave the country anyway, and apply to re-enter as your spouse from a foreign country. She has to have valid status in Canada to make an application from within the country, usually.

If she has a failed refugee claim, or criminal charges, then obviously that raises a red flag. It's not really likely that immigration will contact anyone you know--just that they will start demanding that you submit a lot more documents, or simply that they will deny the application.

I need to know what I'm getting in to.
Click to expand...

You've overlooked the biggest problem. You actually have to sign an undertaking to sponsor her. That is a document you sign back to the government promising to pay all of her living expenses for the next TEN YEARS. No matter whether you stay married, or get divorced, or what happens, you are on the hook for ten full years.

If during those ten years she goes on welfare or lives in subsidized housing or draws down any other similar social services the government will add up what the total cash outlay was and they will collect that money from you. If she goes to a dentist, you have to pay. If she needs eyeglasses, you have to pay. The government won't force you to give the money to her, they'll just give her the money. Then the government will come after you to collect, and they are very effective debt collectors. They'll just drain your bank account whenever there's money in it, and have your employer withhold 50% of your paycheck.

Welfare rates are around $1000/month or so, and that's the bare minimum you are committing yourself to for the next ten years if you go through with it.

Now you know why the going rate is in the $30-50k range...

You should also know that CIC are famous for being really, really slow. Once you file the application expect it to take around 18 months to get a decision. Some people get a decision in 6-8 months, most wait much longer. During this time if her application looks like it stands a chance of succeeding, and you file an application on "humanitarian and compassionate grounds" that you two would be harmed if separated from one another, they will issue her a temporary work visa so she can stay in Canada while they sort it out. (You have to apply for that.)
 
BabyMilo said:
once she becumes a PR (greencard)..u dont need to trip too much...

once she becums a Canadian, ya 20K should be finished..n u can blackmail her for more cash..or divorce her mary another chick for $20k
Click to expand...

You don't have the first clue what you are talking about. Once she becomes PR you're on the hook for any welfare she draws, so you'd better start tripping a little. As for blackmail, blackmail her for what??? If you think going to CIC and "outing" her fake marriage will cost her anything you are wrong.

There's court precedent that a fake marriage stands, and you're still on the hook for the costs, even if everyone later admits and proves that it was a "marriage of convenience". She won't get kicked out of the country. You will still have to pay for her welfare.

OH YEAH, and she is your WIFE. That means if she divorces you she gets, what? The family home and half your income? That's in combination to your having to sponsor her for 10 years (though you don't pay twice, if you're paying her $1500/month in support payments she can't collect welfare.)

Don't post when you don't have a clue what you're saying.
 
If she seriously contemplated staying on, she could have planned accordingly.
Let her go contact an immigration lawyer. Depending on the country of application, the CIC processing time could be anywhere from 8 months to 5 years or more.
 
fuji said:
You don't have the first clue what you are talking about. Once she becomes PR you're on the hook for any welfare she draws, so you'd better start tripping a little. As for blackmail, blackmail her for what??? If you think going to CIC and "outing" her fake marriage will cost her anything you are wrong.

There's court precedent that a fake marriage stands, and you're still on the hook for the costs, even if everyone later admits and proves that it was a "marriage of convenience". She won't get kicked out of the country. You will still have to pay for her welfare.

OH YEAH, and she is your WIFE. That means if she divorces you she gets, what? The family home and half your income? That's in combination to your having to sponsor her for 10 years (though you don't pay twice, if you're paying her $1500/month in support payments she can't collect welfare.)

Don't post when you don't have a clue what you're saying.
Click to expand...

But dude, then he'd NEVER post.


Oh, I see...:p
 
As someone who has immigrated and is married to a Canadian...

fuji said:
If immigration get even a tiny whiff that you are being compensated they will deny her case. That said, the going rate is around $30k-50k. Some not very smart people are talked into doing it for $15-20k but most people who do this for money demand a lot more.



You need evidence that it is a legitimate marriage. Living together, family photos of you with each others parents, wedding photos showing lots of relatives, things like that help make the case that it's legitimate. If they interview you, they might ask you what drawer she keeps her socks in to see if you are lying about living together, things like that.



Not likely. However if there were no sign of your parents or her parents in any of the photos and such that would raise questions.




Ask to see the letter immigration sent her, find out what her current status is in Canada, and actually look at her documents--what visa is she on? What conditions does it have? When and why will it expire?



If she is subject to a deportation order, or if her status in Canada is currently entirely illegal, then immigration may force her to leave the country anyway, and apply to re-enter as your spouse from a foreign country. She has to have valid status in Canada to make an application from within the country, usually.

If she has a failed refugee claim, or criminal charges, then obviously that raises a red flag. It's not really likely that immigration will contact anyone you know--just that they will start demanding that you submit a lot more documents, or simply that they will deny the application.



You've overlooked the biggest problem. You actually have to sign an undertaking to sponsor her. That is a document you sign back to the government promising to pay all of her living expenses for the next TEN YEARS. No matter whether you stay married, or get divorced, or what happens, you are on the hook for ten full years.

If during those ten years she goes on welfare or lives in subsidized housing or draws down any other similar social services the government will add up what the total cash outlay was and they will collect that money from you. If she goes to a dentist, you have to pay. If she needs eyeglasses, you have to pay. The government won't force you to give the money to her, they'll just give her the money. Then the government will come after you to collect, and they are very effective debt collectors. They'll just drain your bank account whenever there's money in it, and have your employer withhold 50% of your paycheck.

Welfare rates are around $1000/month or so, and that's the bare minimum you are committing yourself to for the next ten years if you go through with it.

Now you know why the going rate is in the $30-50k range...

You should also know that CIC are famous for being really, really slow. Once you file the application expect it to take around 18 months to get a decision. Some people get a decision in 6-8 months, most wait much longer. During this time if her application looks like it stands a chance of succeeding, and you file an application on "humanitarian and compassionate grounds" that you two would be harmed if separated from one another, they will issue her a temporary work visa so she can stay in Canada while they sort it out. (You have to apply for that.)
Click to expand...

...Fuji got it all dead on correct. This part...

"You need evidence that it is a legitimate marriage. Living together, family photos of you with each others parents, wedding photos showing lots of relatives, things like that help make the case that it's legitimate. If they interview you, they might ask you what drawer she keeps her socks in to see if you are lying about living together, things like that."

...is especially critical. I am an American...I wasn't coming from country known for sending poor refugees. I was able to demonstrate that I had a six figure income prior to my departure from the U.S., and that I have a Master's degree. I also was able to demonstrate that I had six figures in savings in the bank when I hit Canadian soil. In others words, I wasn't going to be a "burden" to the Canadian government or economy (the supposed point of all this checking). Even with all that my bride and I STILL had to do all that Fuji says here...prove the relationship was legit (emails...cards...seperately share stories of how we met and places we'd been), proof the wedding was legit (photos of the wedding, picutes of my family...her family...our friends...it actually helped that we got married in Vegas, so we could show that people spent good money to be at the wedding...). And yes, we were even asked questions about the other person...what is her favorite colour...stuff like that.

You should also listen to what he is saying about her now being YOUR WIFE. As in legal grounds for your assets.

This isn't TV. This is real life. Don't be stupid. She's a nice gal, no doubt (you hope), but unless you ARE prepared to be married to her (as in she is someone you'd marry if she didn't have immigration issues), don't marry her for "pretend". If it goes badly....and there are LOTS of ways it could go badly....it will cost you money and could cost you jail time.
 
Don't do it there is just too much that can go bad on you and too much you don't or can't know

Don't let sentimentality potentially ruin your standing financially.
 
gramage said:
(plus I wont be getting married on my own. hell I can barely even date)
Click to expand...
I think this part says it all. Whatever fantasies you have about her falling in love with you and you two living happily ever after are pipe dreams. Sounds to me like you are taking advantage of this woman's predicament in the hopes that you will wind up with a grateful wife.
 
Man...

skypilot said:
I think this part says it all. Whatever fantasies you have about her falling in love with you and you two living happily ever after are pipe dreams. Sounds to me like you are taking advantage of this woman's predicament in the hopes that you will wind up with a grateful wife.
Click to expand...


...I missed that part. Mostly I was just checking to see that Fuji and others knew WTF they were talking about.

To the OP - Dude...stick to paying for it. Trust me...marriage is no joke. You DO NOT want to do this...you are just signing up for both heartbreak and financial hardship.
 
to the OP... believe the comments in this thread, they are accurate.

You WILL have to prove the relationship is legitimate.

You WILL have to provide financial stability for this person through their naturalization and afterwards. (I'm not so sure it's 10 years, but the essence of the statement is true.)

You WILL discover that Immigration Canada is slow as hell. They claim a "6 month" naturalization period.. but that's 6 months, from the date you finally submit your completed application. You will spend at least 6 months before this, from the date of the wedding getting all your documents, police clearances etc. together.

Did I mention police clearances.. yes I did. They will need a full background check on this person for any jurisdiction she has lived in for the past 10 years. (any crazy bullshit in her teen years could SERIOUSLY complicate things.)

Whatever VISA she is currently on, unless she has a specialized trade and can have it extended, she will become unemployed and according to the rules of immigration, she CANNOT work during this period.. so welcome to a year of having an non-productive dependant living out of your wallet. Under the table employment WILL be researched, and if caught, automatically voids your application.

This will not be a quick justice of the peace wedding and a couple months of filling out forms while you laugh it all off and maybe sneak in a few quickies for the hell of it.. since you're "married". You're signing up for a year+ of bullshit.

DO NOT do this unless you actually want this person in your life to that extent.
 
I think it depends on which country she from, if she is Chinese than I say go for it. the going rate as about 30K and up, don't take anything less than that, I have friends done it more than once. As if she is Vietnamese of other Asian chicks then you have to be very careful. But never NEVER do it with a black chicks, you will end up in trouble than anything, and they never paid up.
 
RemyMartin said:
I think it depends on which country she from, if she is Chinese than I say go for it. the going rate as about 30K and up, don't take anything less than that, I have friends done it more than once. As if she is Vietnamese of other Asian chicks then you have to be very careful. But never NEVER do it with a black chicks, you will end up in trouble than anything, and they never paid up.
Click to expand...




I just love this post. Wait till danmand the pure or MLAM get ahold of it.:)
 
thanks for all of the responses.

skypilot said:
I think this part says it all. Whatever fantasies you have about her falling in love with you and you two living happily ever after are pipe dreams. Sounds to me like you are taking advantage of this woman's predicament in the hopes that you will wind up with a grateful wife.
Click to expand...

for the record I have NO fantasies in this regard. this isn't about getting something in return (when I said I wont accept payment if I were to do it, I meant ANY kind of payment), I'd just like to help someone if I can. Assets can be protected with pre-nuptual agreements pretty strongly from what I know, but the 10 year commitment is one I wasn't aware of and thats a big deal to figure out (thanks again).

and if it makes a difference she's from Ethiopia.
 
Based on what I'm reading on Immigration Canada's website, at

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/sponsor/support.html

it's only 3 years for a spouse and not 10 years.


Length of Time for Support
You must provide financial support for the relatives or family members you are sponsoring depending on their age and relationship to you. If you are sponsoring:

your spouse, common-law partner or conjugal partner, you must provide financial support for three years from the date that person became a permanent resident
 
BabyMilo said:
yes...cause if u marry a vietnamese chick, u will get 20k...
all u need is a fake wedding..take a couple of pics...thats it...

oh yeah n agd laywer...

once she becumes a PR (greencard)..u dont need to trip too much...

once she becums a Canadian, ya 20K should be finished..n u can blackmail her for more cash..or divorce her mary another chick for $20k
Click to expand...

How is it possible for one human to contain so much stupidity?
 
gramage said:
thanks for all of the responses.



for the record I have NO fantasies in this regard. this isn't about getting something in return (when I said I wont accept payment if I were to do it, I meant ANY kind of payment), I'd just like to help someone if I can. Assets can be protected with pre-nuptual agreements pretty strongly from what I know, but the 10 year commitment is one I wasn't aware of and thats a big deal to figure out (thanks again).

and if it makes a difference she's from Ethiopia.
Click to expand...

Well kudos to you for being compassionate, but if it was really important to her to stay wouldn't she have applied to become a citizen before it became too late?
 
Moraff said:
Well kudos to you for being compassionate, but if it was really important to her to stay wouldn't she have applied to become a citizen before it became too late?
Click to expand...

To be fair our immigration policy in Canada is totally screwed up and unfair. We turn away a lot of people we really should be taking, and then we let in a bunch of fake refugees who cause nothing but trouble.

Of course the right thing is that everyone should follow the legal process on the up and up, but it's hard not to sympathize with people when the proper channels are completely screwed.
 
Moraff said:
Well kudos to you for being compassionate, but if it was really important to her to stay wouldn't she have applied to become a citizen before it became too late?
Click to expand...

Obviously you know nothing about the immigration process. Firstly you need to be a permanent resident for several years before you can apply for citizenship. Secondly she probably doesn't meet the immigration requirements for an independant applicant so there is no point for her to apply.
 
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