Man passes driver's test on 11th try

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Scholar

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southpaw said:
I wonder what was different on the eleventh try. Maybe he just needed the right vehicle.
youtube.com

Brampton man drives a tractor through the Tim Hortons drive thru

A hilarious video of a Brampton Canada ( Toronto ) man drives his tractor through a Tim Hortons drive through and gets his coffee. #toronto #timhortens #coff...
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He left an envelope of cash on the passenger seat? "Not sure how that got there, Mr. Examiner. Are you sure it didn't fall out of your pocket?"
 
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Robert Mugabe

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Kautilya said:
The truck driver guy probably got his license on the first try. Go figure.

This guy probably knows the language but the North American accent is difficult for people to pick up if havent had exposure. He will eventually. People's struggles and failures as they acclimate to a new place, out of their comfort zones should not be made fun of. This is actually a case where the guy was finally able to get the license. So that's good.
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The truck driver guy probably got his license on the first try. Go figure.
Which means his kill ratio is better than average.
 
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explorerzip

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Kautilya said:
Its most likely a language and communication issue. Probably didn't understand accent and instructions and kept fucking up.
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That's a very lame excuse especially if it took so many times and we'll never know if these issues were the cause. The driving examiner hardly says anything during a test so an NA accent should not be an issue. The road test is the same no matter the examiner: take this road / highway, turn here, make a 3 point turn, do a parallel park, etc. If the driver failed so many times, it means there are problems with these skills and / or he's driving agressively, not signalling, speeding, etc.

The driving schools should bear some responsibility because they're teaching the good or bad habits. That school might also be using the driver's mother tongue, which sets them up to fail because they can't have an interpreter during the road test. The only exception is if the driver needs a sign language interpreter that is booked ahead of time.
 
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explorerzip

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Kautilya said:
These road tests are pedantic. You gotta check the mirrors, keep both hands on the steering wheel and what have you. Most of us do not follow all these rules when driving everyday because we've driven enough number of times that we do things instinctively than follow training. For example, I always drive one handed - not allowed during driving tests. If driving test standards were applied to our everyday driving, most us would have our license taken away.

And language and communication ARE an issue. What if one doesn't understand what "make a 3 point turn" means? Not that they dont know how to. What if they just dont understand what the examiner is asking for? Or what if the guy failed so many times that he was super nervous going in and made mistakes? Pressure can make you, make mistakes.

Then again, I agree there is a possibility he was just a terrible driver. But failing 11 times tells me it is less about his driving skills than certain other factors such as language, communication, nervousness, forgetting to do certain things etc., Insisting this is solely about his driving skills is silly. You dont know that.
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I agree that road tests are pedantic, but the driving school has to prepare students for that. One-handed driving might be frowned upon during a road test, but it is not illegal by itself. I can't see someone failing a road-test just because they drove one-handed and had no other issues, but obviously it is up to the examiner's discretion.

You could have a point that the road tests are too pedantic and don't reflect real world driving. If that's really the case, what changes would you make to make it better reflect real world driving? How would those changes deal with the vast difference in urban vs rural driving? You could pass a test in Moosonee and be ill prepared to deal with driving in the GTA. It's fair to talk about changing the standards, but there still needs to be one. If there isn't a standard or if it's very opened ended, then licensing has little meaning like the Pleasure Craft Operator Card where you don't have to take an in-water test with your boat.

There's no way to prove or disprove that most drivers would lose their license for not meeting driving test standards based on casual observations alone. If it were true, that would mean that most drivers are breaking many laws and the police would be having a field day. Having said that, I definitely would fail at parallel parking (besides not being in the G road test) because I seldom if ever do it and my car doesn't have parking assist. I always go to a parking lot as it's much more convenient and wont' hold up traffic. I suspect that suburban drivers would also have difficulty with parallel parking without assistance.

Insisting that he failed mutliple times because of language, nervousness, forgetfullness, etc is also silly because we don't know if these played a role nor is there any evidence. He didn't show his past or current driving test results, so we have no idea what he did wrong and what he did differently to pass this time. In addition, the G road test does not test for the 3-point turn at the moment. If he doesn't understand instructions then he's responsible for asking the examiner to repeat or clarify them regardless if there was an accent.

Someone that fails a test multiple times and makes the same mistakes has not taken corrective actions. Whether or not these mistakes were caused emotions, language barriers, forgetfulness, lack of skill, fatigue, wrecklessness, etc are besides the point and should be taken care of.
 
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explorerzip

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Kautilya said:
The truck driver guy probably got his license on the first try. Go figure.

This guy probably knows the language but the North American accent is difficult for people to pick up if havent had exposure. He will eventually. People's struggles and failures as they acclimate to a new place, out of their comfort zones should not be made fun of. This is actually a case where the guy was finally able to get the license. So that's good.
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Never mind that a commercial truck license is different than a standard G license.

There's no such thing as a North American accent. It's also quite possible that the examiners that failed andr passed him were the same race and spoke with an accent. That's why the driver is responsible for asking to repeat or clarify instructions when he doesn't understand what's happening.
 
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explorerzip

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Kautilya said:
You are missing the point entirely. As usual if I may add, and going off on tangents that were not even implied. I am not saying the driver did not have to do anything different to pass, or that the onus was not on them. I am also not advocating for any change in road tests nor did I even indicate any inclination towards that.

I am saying because road tests are pedantic, many of our usual driving behaviours when you drive in everyday circumstances, are frowned upon for the purposes of the test and could result in failure. For example, you may have to accelerate quickly in certain scenarios. You'd fail that in a driving test because that is too aggressive. Again, as you said, examiner's discretion also matters.

Solely based on someone failing a driving test multiple times, you do not have much data to insist that this person does not know how to drive or is not skilled.

That could be the case, but other factors such as emotions, language barriers, low confidence due to repeated failure, nervousness induced forgetfulness etc do play a role because it is a TEST.

I am countering people who are saying that this guy is now going to start causing accidents. As if accidents are not caused by people who got their license on the first try. That is not a reasonable conclusion.

And to get a commercial truck license you need a G license. So that is an irrelevant point.

And there is no North American accent? Well, I am collectively calling all American and Canadian accents "North American", because for someone who is finding it difficult to understand a different accent, the distinction not make much of a difference.
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How is what I said going off on a tangent? If you fail a test multiple times and make the same mistakes, it's up to you fix those issues despite emotions, nervousness, language barriers, etc.

So what are the common driving behaviors that could result in a failure? We can't have a meaningful discussion unless we have the actual criteria examiners look for in the road test. Your acceleration example depends on the road conditions / configuration and might not necessarily cause a failure on its own. There are on-ramps that have fairly short merging lanes, which would require hard acceleration. Surely, an examiner would take the entire road test into account. They should be able to tell the difference between agressive behavior vs behavior that is not necessarily illegal.

You've also have not presented data or evidence that a language barrier is one of the reasons he failed more than once. It is unlikely he would have language issues with different examiners 10 times in a row. How do you know that any one of the examiners spoke the same language as him and was the same race? In that scenario, the examiner would also have an accent as the test can only be given in English or French. Whether or not there was a language barrier, multiple examiners determined he could not satisfy the requirements of the test and that's why he failed.

I agree though that saying that he's now going to get into accidents let alone drive a truck is not a reasonable conclusion.

What exactly is an American / Canadian accent? How would you describe the accent of Canadian born Chinese person? If someone has difficulty understanding because of accent or language issues, then they have to speak up and seek clarification.
 
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stinkynuts

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I'm embarassed to admit it, but I passed on my fourth attempt. However, in 30 years of driving I have only caused one minor accident (rear ended someone at a low speed).
 
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explorerzip

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Kautilya said:
It is off topic and tangential because, you cannot provide a single quote of mine, where I said it is not up to the driver to fix issues and pass the test. I LITERALLY said the opposite in my last post.

I am not going to provide a list of common driving behaviours that could result in failure. And YES, if you accelerate too hard for whatever reason, it WILL result in failure. It's happened before. It is an example of how common driving behaviours can cause issues in tests and an exhaustive list of such criteria is once again not needed, because it is tangential to the point I am making.

I do not have to present any evidence at all that language barriers is one of the reasons he failed more than once. Because I did not say that language barriers IS the reason that he failed the test. I said it could have been one of the more likely reasons.

All 3 of the above points of yours are tangential and irrelevant to the ONLY point that I made in my post.

The ONLY point that I made is to say that there are a multitude of reasons why this person may have failed the test. Driving skill, circumstances forcing a certain driving behaviour, Language barriers, forgetfulness, nervousness etc., We dont know why exactly as none of us where there. But to conclude that this person is a poor driver, based on the title of the news article, is not a reasonable conclusion. This is something you seem to agree with in your post. So what are you disagreeing with exactly here? I dont think you have a point to make

And lastly on accents - and once again tangential - I dont have to describe accents although you could describe accents phonetically. There is clearly a representation of what American accent and Canadian accents are. Think what would someone teach you if you went to an accent tutor and asked them to teach you Canadian accent.

The point I was making here is that to a person who is finding it difficult to understand foreign accents - in this case I generalized this as "North American" - it doesn't make a difference, so no further inquiry on that is necessary other than to say the driver found it difficult to understand a North American accent (whatever variation that may be).

The only relevant point for you to respond to is highlighted in red. Let us stay focused on that.
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We've all gone off topic now and again. I'm not talking something completely unrelated to driving tests. It seems that you're being overly pedantic about this.

A sudden and hard acceration doesn't mean an automatic failure. You seem to imply that it's happened to you or know of a case.

Yes, I agree that we cannot conclude anything about the driver including language barriers or other issues because we were not there (nor could we) to see what happened.

That's enough said about this so I'll leave it there.
 
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explorerzip

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stinkynuts said:
One woman in Korea had to take the driving test just under 1,000 times before she passed.
www.dailymail.co.uk

Woman spent £11,000 on getting her driving license

South Korean woman Cha Sa-soon made international headlines 15 years ago when she finally earned her driving license after taking 960 theory and practical tests and spending £11,000.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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To be fair, she took the written test 860 times and the practical test 10 times 🤯

"She then reduced this to just twice a week, until she finally passed the written test, on her 860th attempt. Once she had that under her belt, she moved on to the practical test, which would also prove a challenge. Cha Sa-soon had to take that test 10 times, bringing the total number of driving examinations up to 960, between the written and practical elements."

Seems like there's a proofreading issue or math isn't the writer's strong suit because 860 + 10 ≠ 960 😎
 
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