Lusitania

[dirkd101]

Well, the German's may have retreated to safe waters after the the Battle of Jutland. But the Brits lost more men and ships during the battle. The unfortunate part for the German's was the fact that they weren't just battling the British navy of WW1, but the whole history of the British navy.

The German ships were better, technologically speaking, the one thing they lacked, was the history of the British navy.

During the Kiel Navy Review German sailors had the opportunity to go over every bit of the best of the British Navies ships and that was in July of 1914.

 

[oil&gas]

Technologically more advanced they might be, but isn't that German warships
in WWI were still fueled by coal (or it could be a mix of coal and oil) and hence
easily slower in speed by more than 5 knots than the Royal Navy?

 

[nottyboi]

Technologically more advanced they might be, but isn't that German warships
in WWI were still fueled by coal (or it could be a mix of coal and oil) and hence
easily slower in speed by more than 5 knots than the Royal Navy?

It really depends, they all had a mixed bag of Battleships (predreadnaught and dreadnaught) as well as battle cruisers which were less armoured and faster. Keeping such a mixed bag of ships in formation was really quite a nightmare especially with the limited communications of the day. The very best German ships were very good, but the Elizabeth class ships were really superb battleships with fearsome firepower that were still able to chase around the WWII German ships more then 25 years later. If it came down to a all out battle, the Germans would have probably lost. But the British also had a lot of defective shells etc etc that greatly hindered their fighting ability. Still, it would be very hard to bet against the Royal Navy at the time.

 

[jcpro]

Well, the German's may have retreated to safe waters after the the Battle of Jutland. But the Brits lost more men and ships during the battle. The unfortunate part for the German's was the fact that they weren't just battling the British navy of WW1, but the whole history of the British navy.

The German ships were better, technologically speaking, the one thing they lacked, was the history of the British navy.

During the Kiel Navy Review German sailors had the opportunity to go over every bit of the best of the British Navies ships and that was in July of 1914.

Agreed. The Old Firm was more than just hardware. It was the professionalism and the will to apply pressure no matter what.

 

[guelph]

Is the English News Paper a reputable source. I found these articles basically stating that there it felt that if the truth were known then British reputation would suffer.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nges-Allied-claims-solely-passenger-ship.html
Her sinking with the loss of almost 1,200 lives caused such outrage that it propelled the U.S. into the First World War.
But now divers have revealed a dark secret about the cargo carried by the Lusitania on its final journey in May 1915.
Munitions they found in the hold suggest that the Germans had been right all along in claiming the ship was carrying war materials and was a legitimate military target.
Lusitania
Doomed: A contemporary view of the sinking of the Lusitania off Ireland in May 1915
The Cunard vessel, steaming from New York to Liverpool, was sunk eight miles off the Irish coast by a U-boat.
Maintaining that the Lusitania was solely a passenger vessel, the British quickly accused the 'Pirate Hun' of
slaughtering civilians.
The disaster was used to whip up anti-German anger, especially in the U.S., where 128 of the 1,198 victims came from.
A hundred of the dead were children, many of them under two.
Robert Lansing, the U.S. secretary of state, later wrote that the sinking gave him the 'conviction we would ultimately become the ally of Britain'.
Americans were even told, falsely, that German children were given a day off school to celebrate the sinking of the Lusitania.
The disaster inspired a multitude of recruitment posters demanding vengeance for the victims.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...aims-solely-passenger-ship.html#ixzz3Zc1tqSzE
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unk-Lusitania-spark-diplomatic-crisis-US.html

It became a symbol of brutal German aggression - an unprovoked torpedo attack on a passenger cruise liner during the First World War.
The infamous sinking of the Lusitania in 1915, killing more than 1,000 innocent victims, sparked outrage in Britain and America. Public opinion in the States swung against the Kaiser - eventually helping President Woodrow Wilson take the country into the war in 1917.
But 70 years after the ship was torpedoed by a German U-boat eight miles off the coast of Ireland, British Government officials feared the secret of the tragedy would 'blow up on us' when a group of divers planned to search the wreck.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...spark-diplomatic-crisis-US.html#ixzz3Zc2NXSq8


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-sank-1915--German-torpedo-really-blame.html

But soon after the sinking, rumours circulated that the ship had also been carrying explosives destined for the front. Endangering innocent civilians in such a way – if proved – could constitute a war crime almost as serious as the U-boat’s targeting of the passenger liner, an atrocity that helped bring the US into the war against Germany in revenge for the many Americans who died.
In its time, the sinking of the Lusitania had all the shock impact of 9/11. Today, the ship lies 300ft down, 12 miles off the south coast of Ireland near the port of Cobh.
In 1968 American businessman Gregg Bemis became a co-owner of the wreck, which had been bought the previous year by a US diver for £1,000. Bemis, who subsequently became sole owner, fought a long battle in the courts for the right to dive and explore the ship, which still contains the remains of hundreds of victims.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...erman-torpedo-really-blame.html#ixzz3Zc2t5Ur5

 

[nottyboi]

Amazing how we still swallow all the news we read and take all we are told about history as fact....

 

[Aardvark154]

"Endangering innocent civilians in such a way – if proved – could constitute a war crime almost as serious as the U-boat’s targeting of the passenger line"

The words I realize are Nigel Jones, not yours Guelph, but really? Who is going to assert this claim?

What sorts of War Materiels were carried aboard the Lusitania, may be of some interest, but legally and in the larger verdict of history it was a century ago, the book is closed.

 

[Aardvark154]

By the way the National Geographic Channel ran "Dark Secrets Of The Lusitania" about the sinking of the Lusitania last night. The scientific - engineering weight was provided by the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.

It was the opinion of the Scientists at Lawrence Livermore that the second explosion was an explosion of the Number 1 boiler (rather than a coal dust, aluminum powder, or gun cotton explosion), but they went on to say that although loud, the second explosion was of negligible effect in her sinking, that the rapidness of her sinking was rather due to the location of the torpedo hit and the 18 knot speed of the Lusitania at the time she was hit (which affected the size of the hole in her side and the amount of inflowing sea water).

 

[dirkd101]

Agreed. The Old Firm was more than just hardware. It was the professionalism and the will to apply pressure no matter what.

You're absolutely correct. Just like Nelson at Trafalgar and the privateers before him, who caused the Spanish and Portuguese so many problems. This is what was expected by all, the German's and the British admiralty.

I forgot to add, that at the Kiel Naval Review, when the British let the German's go over every inch of their ships, they knew full well that they would have a show down with the German Navy at some point in the near future. The British air of superiority was most definitely in high gear during this time.

 

[SkyRider]

Just like Nelson at Trafalgar and the privateers before him, who caused the Spanish and Portuguese so many problems.

The Royal Navy met it's match against the navy of Imperial Japan in WW II. Until then, the Brits ruled the waves.

 

[dirkd101]

The Royal Navy met it's match against the navy of Imperial Japan in WW II. Until then, the Brits ruled the waves.

That they did!

Japan's navy was modeled after and trained by the Brits. During WW1 they held the German's at bay in the Pacific, as Germany had some possessions there.

During WW2 they used the Royal Navies proven torpedo attack to good effect at Pearl Harbour. Naval air warfare was a Royal Navy initiative, using naval air power, from what would become, aircraft carriers. The American's and Japanese expanded on the Brits original plan.

 

[Yoga Face]

Jesus H Christ.....

Lusitania was laid down in 1904. Ten fucking years before WW1 broke out. Do you really believe that 10 years before WW1 that the British Gov't had figured on a world war with Germany?
.

Yes

The reality is that all large British passenger ships were often times requisitioned by the Admiralty in times of war if needed. Titanic's sister ship Britanic was requisitioned as a hospital ship in WW1 and was sunk by the Germans in the Agean Sea. And that was a hospital ship. .

White cross ships were also used to transport armaments, why else would Germany target them

During the Falklands War, the Cunard ship the Queen Elizabeth 2 was requisitioned by the Admiralty as a troop ship.
.

That was used as a tactic to slow down British entry into the war in the hope of negotiations

The Germans didn't know for a fact that the Lusitania was carrying arms. They suspected that it was and they had warned that all British ships were considered targets. All British ships were labelled targets by the Germans. It really was doubtful that the contents of the Lusitania would have made any difference whatsoever to the British War effort.

If Britain allowed boarding and inspections the Germans would have had no motive to sink such ships, but I suspect Britain wanted such sinkings to encourage American entry into the war

 

[Aardvark154]

During the Falklands War, the Cunard ship the Queen Elizabeth 2 was requisitioned by the Admiralty as a troop ship.

That was used as a tactic to slow down British entry into the war in the hope of negotiations.

Stuff and nonsense, The Queen Elizabeth 2 was taken up from trade because she was a large high speed ship that could handle South Atlantic conditions and accommodate a for the duration helipad. Indeed she transported the entire British Fifth Infantry Brigade, as well as other units to the South Atlantic.