Lusitania

[Aardvark154]

Today is the centenary of the sinking of the Cunard Liner R.M.S. Lusitania torpedoed less than a dozen miles off the southern coast of Ireland with the loss of 1,191 lives, most of them British and Canadian but including 128 Americans.

Her sinking marked the beginning of the transformation of American public opinion, from truly neutral and indeed (save on the East Coast), friendly towards Germany, to entering the war as an Allied Power less than two years later. The U.S. Government insisted that Germany apologize for the sinking, compensate U.S. victims, and promise to avoid any similar occurrence in the future. Under the U.S. pressure Germany in early September ordered that no attacks on passenger liners were to be permitted and neutral ships were to be treated according to the Prize Rules. The German decision in January 1917 to again conduct unrestricted submarine warfare directly lead to the U.S. Declaration of War.

 

[Yoga Face]

Passenger ships and white cross ships were used by the allies to transport arms

Why else would the Germans sink them and risk USA entering war

 

[Aardvark154]

Passenger ships and white cross ships were used by the allies to transport arms

Why else would the Germans sink them and risk USA entering war

In part Teutonic arrogance.

William Jennings Bryan*, the U.S. Secretary of State largely agreed with your perspective but as his line of argument rapidly lost weight within the Administration he resigned just over a month later - June 9, 1915.


* Generally known as a caricature of himself from the 1925 Scopes Trial.

 

[Big Sleazy]

It was a False Flag. Just like the Maine, Pearl Harbour, Gulf of Tonkin, 9-11, ISIS etc..... We need to wake up because the World is getting sick and tired of the West.

http://henrymakow.com/2015/05/lusitania-the-pearl-harbor-of-ww1.html

BS

 

[Yoga Face]

William Jennings Bryan*, the U.S. Secretary of State largely agreed with your perspective but as his line of argument rapidly lost weight within the Administration he resigned just over a month later - June 9, 1915.


* Generally known as a caricature of himself from the 1925 Scopes Trial.

Any country that would transport injured war heroes in a ship with hidden armaments forcing the enemy to blow up the ship is a country run by crass, fat politicians and a news media that rubber stamps the beliefs of those in power

The British Admiralty had secretly subsidized her construction and she was built to Admiralty specifications with the understanding that at the outbreak of war the ship would be consigned to government service. As war clouds gathered in 1913, the Lusitania quietly entered dry dock in Liverpool and was fitted for war service. This included the installation of ammunition magazines and gun mounts on her decks. The mounts, concealed under the teak deck, were ready for the addition of the guns when needed.

On May 1, 1915, the ship departed New York City bound for Liverpool. Unknown to her passengers but no secret to the Germans, almost all her hidden cargo consisted of munitions and contraband destined for the British war effort. As the fastest ship afloat, the luxurious liner felt secure in the belief she could easily outdistance any submarine. Nonetheless, the menace of submarine attack reduced her passenger list to only half her capacity.

The torpedo exploded hidden munitions and that is why she sank so quickly

 

[Aardvark154]

The torpedo exploded hidden munitions and that is why she sank so quickly

Actually the opinion of most modern researchers and historians is that a steam explosion was far more likely the cause for the second explosion than explosives. Among the evidence pointing to this conclusion are that steam pressure to the turbines dramatically dropped following the second explosion and witnesses report that the forward boiler room filled with steam following it.

For an article about this see: http://www.gwpda.org/naval/lusika00.htm

 

[james t kirk]

Any country that would transport injured war heroes in a ship with hidden armaments forcing the enemy to blow up the ship is a country run by crass, fat politicians and a news media that rubber stamps the beliefs of those in power

The British Admiralty had secretly subsidized her construction and she was built to Admiralty specifications with the understanding that at the outbreak of war the ship would be consigned to government service. As war clouds gathered in 1913, the Lusitania quietly entered dry dock in Liverpool and was fitted for war service. This included the installation of ammunition magazines and gun mounts on her decks. The mounts, concealed under the teak deck, were ready for the addition of the guns when needed.

On May 1, 1915, the ship departed New York City bound for Liverpool. Unknown to her passengers but no secret to the Germans, almost all her hidden cargo consisted of munitions and contraband destined for the British war effort. As the fastest ship afloat, the luxurious liner felt secure in the belief she could easily outdistance any submarine. Nonetheless, the menace of submarine attack reduced her passenger list to only half her capacity.

The torpedo exploded hidden munitions and that is why she sank so quickly

Jesus H Christ.....

Lusitania was laid down in 1904. Ten fucking years before WW1 broke out. Do you really believe that 10 years before WW1 that the British Gov't had figured on a world war with Germany?

The reality is that all large British passenger ships were often times requisitioned by the Admiralty in times of war if needed. Titanic's sister ship Britanic was requisitioned as a hospital ship in WW1 and was sunk by the Germans in the Agean Sea. And that was a hospital ship. Titanic's other sister ship - Olympic was converted to a troop ship and came out of the war unscathed.

During the Falklands War, the Cunard ship the Queen Elizabeth 2 was requisitioned by the Admiralty as a troop ship.

During WW2, the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth 1 were both converted to troop ships and ferried millions from North America to Britain.

The Germans didn't know for a fact that the Lusitania was carrying arms. They suspected that it was and they had warned that all British ships were considered targets. All British ships were labelled targets by the Germans. It really was doubtful that the contents of the Lusitania would have made any difference whatsoever to the British War effort.

 

[Aardvark154]

As great a tragedy as the sinking was to the families of those killed and traumatized (PTSD). Its principle significance remains its influence on U.S. policy and public opinion and in the end the amount of munitions she carried was irreverent.

 

[guelph]

Here is an interesting read

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougban...itania-a-century-of-lying-america-into-war/2/

 

[Aardvark154]

Here is an interesting read

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougban...itania-a-century-of-lying-america-into-war/2/

This shouldn't really surprise anyone. Despite my previous comment about East Coast support for Great Britain and France as opposed to Germany there were certainly those even in the East who opposed all U.S. intervention and firmly held to the rights of Neutrals. Although the Magazine dates to but 1917 and after U.S. entry to the war those with objection who had even a modicum of sense kept their mouths shut, Forbes Magazine were of the old school, the viewpoint of this article therefore doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[Aardvark154]

On the other hand, I've never felt the U.S. or for that matter the British Empire's Declaration of War against the Austro-Hungarian Empire was justified.

And Wilson is among my least favorite U.S. Presidents!

 

[nottyboi]

It was a False Flag. Just like the Maine, Pearl Harbour, Gulf of Tonkin, 9-11, ISIS etc..... We need to wake up because the World is getting sick and tired of the West.

http://henrymakow.com/2015/05/lusitania-the-pearl-harbor-of-ww1.html

BS

I think Robert Ballard concluded the 2nd explosion was from coal dust. The bunkers were near empty at the time and the torpedos stirred up the dust and it exploded...

 

[dirkd101]

Jesus H Christ.....

Lusitania was laid down in 1904. Ten fucking years before WW1 broke out. Do you really believe that 10 years before WW1 that the British Gov't had figured on a world war with Germany?

Actually James, the arms race with Germany started in the late 1800s, so in answer to your question, yes, they did know they would be going to war with Germany at a date sometime in the future.

The Wiki cite is accurate so I will include it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-German_naval_arms_race

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Naval_Laws

http://encyclopedia.1914-1918-onlin...e_between_germany_and_great_britain_1898-1912

It was not all too uncommon for ships to be built to Admiralty specifications in those days, so that in times of war, they could be pressed into service.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27641717

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/naval_race_1906_to_1914.htm


The naval history of Britain is fascinating and Germany's desire to best the British at their own game led to this naval build up between Germany and Britain. This didn't happen overnight and the technological advances, especially in guns and gunnery, outstripped the ships designs. The thought that bigger was better led the race, but quickly brought new innovations especially underwater warfare, bringing the submarine to the forefront as the weapon of the future, foreshadowing Germany's WW2 use of them.

 

[Aardvark154]

It wasn't until 1907 that Germany really started it's naval arms race with the U.K. Most Historians consider the German Naval Buildup to have been a major factor in the outbreak of World War I

 

[Indiana]

I think Robert Ballard concluded the 2nd explosion was from coal dust. The bunkers were near empty at the time and the torpedos stirred up the dust and it exploded...

Ballard was a U.S. Intelligence and navy officer.

 

[Aardvark154]

Ballard was a U.S. Intelligence and navy officer.

One and the same, he was a U.S. Navy Reserve officer (Commander) whose designator was Naval Intelligence.

Which although interesting really doesn't have much if anything to do with his theory being plausible, although I still believe steam explosion fits the facts better.

 

[Indiana]

One and the same, he was a U.S. Navy Reserve officer (Commander) whose designator was Naval Intelligence.

Which although interesting really doesn't have much if anything to do with his theory being plausible, although I still believe steam explosion fits the facts better.

Not one and the same. Research his Army activities before transferring to naval service.
His theory is his effort to cloud the issue.
Once a spook, always a spook.

 

[wilbur]

http://www.cato.org/blog/sinking-lusitania-lying-america-war-again

Another view of the background to the Lusitania. He accuses Churchill of sacrificing the ship in order to get the US into the war.

The German consulate had placed an ad right below Cunard's own ad in the newspaper prior to the sailing, warning that the ship was considered fair game because of its military cargo.

 

[dirkd101]

It wasn't until 1907 that Germany really started it's naval arms race with the U.K. Most Historians consider the German Naval Buildup to have been a major factor in the outbreak of World War I

It was actually about 1900 that Germany passed its second naval law, ramping up production to become the second largest naval power.

This was a major factor in helping bring about WW1, Germany's desire to have a navy that could equal that of the British and their desire for colonization, which threatened Britain's rule of the seas.

There are some good books on the subject, I read them some time ago and their titles elude me as of now. Here is some quick reading;


http://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyGermanyOrganisation.htm

http://bnrg.eecs.berkeley.edu/~randy/Courses/CS39K.S05/navalwar-3.pdf

 

[SkyRider]

Germany's desire to have a navy that could equal that of the British

A foolish objective. Guess the Germans learned nothing from the Royal Navy's defeat of the French and Spanish navies.