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LUCIC vs MILLER

fmahovalich

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Aug 21, 2009
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The open ice hit was deemed 'charging' on LUCIC.

Question..... (Cause ol Frankie comes from a different hockey era)

If a goalie is out like Miller...is it legal to check him?

If not, whats the problem with checking? Unwritten rule?

Personally I think goalies are fair game when playing the puck in open ice.

And furthermore...if two players are racing straight at each other (as in this case for the puck) is it really charging....
I know the numbers of strides count...


But can someone explain hockey to me?
 

Malibook

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Goalies are not fair game just because they leave the crease.
I am surprised that Lucic did not get at least a game or 2 as he didn`t make any effort to avoid or minimise the hit.


The Rule is 42.1

It's written in black and white and there's enough grey area regarding contacting a goaltender outside the crease to colour any debate in confusion. After Milan Lucic ran over Ryan Miller on Saturday and concussed the netminder in a race for the puck at the right faceoff circle — the Boston Bruins forward received a charging minor and wasn't suspended following a hearing Monday — NHL disciplinarian Brendan Shanahan concluded a rule regarding charging was the appropriate call. And he added that there was nothing egregious about the contact on the Buffalo Sabres stopper that would have warranted further supplemental discipline.

Regardless, you'd have a hard time convincing many that Lucic, an East Vancouver native, wasn't in the wrong because opinions are strong and the state of goalie protection is once again of obvious concern. It should be a hot topic of discussion when general managers meet Tuesday.

"I'm really surprised and even more confused," Canucks winger Alex Burrows said after the ruling. "I've been trying to figure it out and I don't know if goalies are in play now if they're out of their crease. This might set a precedent. Shanahan played the game and he probably knew that he [Lucic] had time to move and growing up you learn you can't really hit the goalies. I would have dove at the puck or have tried to get out of the way.

"I thought there would be repercussions. We're concerned. I thought we were trying to get those kind of hits out of this league and now it might be back to old-time hockey. The next thing you know, you might have a line brawl or a bench clearing."

As for Rule 42.1, it states: "A goalkeeper is not 'fair game' just because he is outside the goal crease. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an attacking player makes unnecessary contact with the goalkeeper. However, incidental contact will be permitted when the goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside the goal crease, provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such unnecessary contact."

Now you understand the confusion. Daniel Sedin plays a finesse game and his physical involvement usually involves puck battles along the wall or fending off an aggressor. What he saw in the Lucic incident was a straight-line, full-head-of-steam approach by a winger with a reputation for physical play and not backing down from confrontations.

"He had all the time in the world to stop or change his angle," said the Canucks winger. "That should never happen and it wasn't fun to watch. They [goalies] are not used to getting hit and it's tough for them to get out of the way. They're going to be a target if you allow those kind of hits.

"Goalies have a tough time skating with all the pads they have on and you have to protect them or it's going to be ugly out there."

Pretty strong words. But you can only imagine how the Canucks would feel if Daniel Carcillo takes a similar approach to playing a loose puck Wednesday when the Chicago Blackhawks visit Rogers Arena. As much as Roberto Luongo tried to be diplomatic in his assessment of the Lucic contact, he wouldn't have wanted to switch places with Miller.

"It's a tough call," Luongo said before the Shanahan ruling. "I put myself in Ryan's shoes and if that happened to me, I wouldn't be too happy about it. If you have an opportunity to avoid a hit — especially with a goaltender in a vulnerable position — it's been like that. Things happen quickly and sometimes you don't have time to react.

"It's rare you see it happen but there's an understanding around the league that you need to be protected and once in a while this happens. It all depends on the punishment."

Luongo was in a short dash to a loose puck on Nov. 1 in Calgary. Early in the third period, he collided with Flames forward Rene Bourque resulting in a shoulder-to-shoulder contact and he stayed down on the ice for a few moments after being shaken up. No penalty was called on that play.

"When I went out to play the puck, we both dove for it and it was incidental contact," recalled Luongo. "It just happens and is part of the game and shouldn't change the way you play."

The other side of the argument is that you can't really take aggression out of the game and that it can be difficult to avoid contact when players are schooled to go all out in a puck pursuit.

"You come out of the net that far — all bets are off," said Canucks associate coach Rick Bowness. "That's the cold reality of our sport. It's not a matter of protecting them to me, the goalie comes out that far and makes a decision to play a puck, all bets are off and it's up to the teams to sort that out."

Miller played the remainder of the first period Saturday and was then replaced by Jhonas Enroth to start the third period. He allowed three goals on 10 shots in the second period and then called out Lucic for his actions.

"Lucic has 50 pounds on me and he runs me like that? It's unbelievable," said Miller. "That was gutless."

Henrik Sedin may have put it best. Lucic is taught to play tough and goalies aren't. So when they go bump in the night, the outcome is usually predictable.

"Miller played the puck and he [Lucic] had a couple of seconds to either stop or step around and he leaned into the hit, too. It wasn't fun to watch," said the Canucks captain. "Everyone knows goalies didn't grow up practising taking hits. That's not their job. It shouldn't have happened.

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/sports/C...ason+goalies/5708811/story.html#ixzz1dj6jgPzr
 

Peter123

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I've seen the video---they are both racing for a puck---Miller wins but by maybe a foot and then there is incidental contact--no elbow--Miller actually looked more like he was trying to lean into Lucic....I don't even think there should have been a penalty

Heck---this would have been legal contact in a no body checking league!
 

shack

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I've been an advocate for eliminating fighting and head shots, but I agree with Rick Bowness. If the goalie wants to race for the puck that far out of the crease, all bets are off.
 

kirmit129

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I remember a game many years ago when Ron Hextall left the crease to play the puck and checked a player into the glass afterwards. No penalties. So, if goaltenders are allows to hit, why can't they be hit? The problem I have with the hit is that Miller had already cleared the puck and Lucic could have avoided him but instead chose to charge him.
 

Malibook

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Goalies have plenty of padding but they are not equipped for hits.
Any player who had to wear goalie pads and goalie skates with a typical flat rocker and shallow hollow wouldn`t be doing well in the hitting department either.
Lucic exploded into the hit and didn`t make any effort to even lessen the blow, let alone try to avoid it.
He should have gotten at least 1 game.
 

Pastor Tricky

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What I find even more troublesome than the hit on Miller (which I think is not troublesome at all) is the lack of response that Buffalo gave. What a bunch of pussies. Not a Bruins fan but I can guarantee that if Thomas got run the Bruins would have taken care of business.
 

Malibook

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Fraser: Shanahan missed the call and has sent wrong message

Brendan Shanahan and the Player Protection Committee have already ruled on the body check Milan Lucic delivered on Ryan Miller of the Buffalo Sabres that has left the goalie with concussion-like symptoms. I have been a strong advocate of the work that Shanny has been doing to this point of the season with supplementary discipline but I have to disagree with his ruling on this one.

I believe he really missed this call and has sent the wrong message. Like it or not, goalies enjoy preferential treatment similar to endangered species in the wild; at least up until this latest decision. It would now appear they are subjected to the same rules as any other player once they leave the "protection of their nest!" Lindy Ruff has every right to call foul on this non-suspension. Milan Lucic should have been suspended for the next two games.

I attended a meeting one summer with team general managers and coaches to discuss various topics on the game. A hot topic on the agenda was protection of the goalkeepers. It was generally agreed that goalies deserved preferential treatment and marked "untouchable" for a variety of reasons. (Rule 42- charging - pretty much makes goalies immune to body contact from opposing players.)

During that meeting I recalled Glen Sather, as GM of the Edmonton Oilers at the time, voice a word of caution that granting goalies immunity from body contact created an unfair advantage because players such as Ron Hextall and Martin Brodeur could pass and shoot the puck better than most defensemen in the League,. In spite of this consideration goalies became pretty much off-limits.

Rule 42 pretty much make goalies immune from body contact by opposing players. It reads: "A minor, major or a game misconduct shall be imposed on a player who charges a goalkeeper while the goalkeeper is within his goal crease."

In a practical application, any time that a player takes a run at a goalie from a distance and hits him with velocity while within this crease a major penalty (and likely a game misconduct) is applied.

The next portion of the rule applies to the Lucic hit on Miller where it goes on to state, "A goalkeeper is not 'fair game' just because he is outside the goal crease area. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an opposing player makes unnecessary contact with a goalkeeper. However, incidental contact, at the discretion of the referee, will be permitted when the goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such contact."

In plain and simple terms this translates to DON'T TOUCH THE GOALIE.

This was not a race to a loose puck where a collision resulted through a tie in the footrace. This was not "incidental contact" nor was any effort, let alone a "reasonable effort" made by Milan Lucic to avoid Ryan Miller after the goalkeeper released the puck.

This was very clearly a hard shoulder body check finished with elevated hands, delivered by an attacking forward on a goalie that did not expect to be hit under protection of the playing rules.
Any other player would expect to be hit on the finish of a check - a goalkeeper does not. I deem it a dangerous play and it creates an even more dangerous precedent.

In my judgment this open-ice check on the goalie deserved more than a 2 minute minor penalty. A major for charging would be the most appropriate penalty for this type hit on a goalkeeper. (A game misconduct would only be added if an injury resulted to the face or head of Miller. He remained in the game for a period of time so this would be impossible for the referee to ascertain when the penalty assessment was made.)

The end result of the body check was a concussion to the Sabres goalkeeper; arguably their best and most important player on the team.

A strong message should be been sent throughout the hockey community with the assessment of a two (2) game suspension to Milan Lucic through supplementary discipline. Players (and more importantly goalies) would know that the League still considers them endangered and will continue to protect them from full blown body checks. It now appears that hunting season is now open. The license only takes "two minutes" to fill out and can be completed from the penalty box.



http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=380468
 

MayDay Malone

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Didn't the Bruins do the Sabres a favor ??? Jhonas Enroth is 6-0 1.76 9.49 .... Miller isn't the old Miller and this allows the Sabres to play the better goalie without hurting anyone's feelings ..
I was thinking exactly that too. Aside from diminshing Miller's already plummeting trade value, this may be best for the Sabres to roll Enroth, anyhow.
 

Mervyn

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Miller threw an elbow towards lucic , they are both to blame for this incident imo.
 

Ironhead

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Miller threw an elbow towards lucic , they are both to blame for this incident imo.
I do not know about an elbow in Lucic's direction, but I did see Miller take a healthy swing at Lucic with his goal stick.
 

gcostanza

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Jul 24, 2010
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....then why doesn't the goalie just skate all the way to the other end of the net and take a shot ..
It is against the rules. The goaltender cannot cross the centre ice line.
 

Ironhead

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I have to agree .... Don't goalies have the most equipment and so why shouldn't they get hit if they wonder that far from their net ... Heck your not allowed to touch the goalie ??? then why doesn't the goalie just skate all the way to the other end of the net and take a shot ..
Do not get all whiny Guy.
There is a rule which protects goalies in certain situations when out of the crease.
As for goalies skating the length of the ice and taking a shot on goal ? I seem to recall there is a rule against a goalie crossing center ice with the puck.
Someone will likely come along and confirm or correct my view.
 

Ironhead

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shack

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Well, forget about trying to score, but having a goalie being untouchable is a damn good way to kill a penalty. Skate over the blue line untouched and then rifle it down the ice.
 

Mervyn

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The unwritten rule is the goalie is never touched, but part of that unwritten rule is the goalie doesn't skate that far out of the crease like miller did.
 

kirmit129

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In football, if a quarterback runs with the football or is playing the role of a blocker, then he is fair game. Goalies should be fair game outside of the crease. Especially if they are allowed to check you. Also, the crease should go back to the size of what they were back in the 90s. The reason why the size shrunk is coz of that toe in the crease no goal rule. Since that rule was eliminated, the crease should be widen again.
 
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