Lousy experiences with 'popular' SPs

luvdancers

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Aug 13, 2003
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Reply to Carrie

Carrie Moon said:
Luvdancer. Since I have no idea who you are as you didn't contact me directly to inform me of your dissapointment I can't comment on your experience vs. my own. If I was abrupt or hurried perhaps it was because you were late or I miscalculated something? I'm not usually a clockwatcher but I do love to watch in the mirror which is in the same general direction. As for not looking at you? I can't imagine why til I know who you are... again perhaps watching in the mirror? <snip>
Ah, well, I didn't know this thread was still alive and breathing and I had expected to hear from you right away if you had a response.... I saw you during your previous incarnation here in Ottawa, if memory serves a few months before you dropped out of sight for a while.

As to informing you, well I guess I have always thought of the transacton this way: once the envelope hits the dresser, the payer becomes one of those guys PT Barnum made the wisecrack about. The concept of making a service complaint did not occur to me. In fact, in light of the (at that time) overwhelmingly positive reviews you had around here, I saw little point in starting a flamewar with your fans here either.

Not sure what else you want to know. If you want to PM me, I can provide more detail on what happened. Or if you want to talk it out in 'public', no problem either.
 

Carrie Moon

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Sep 12, 2002
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I actually have no wish to discuss any of this in public. I think this is all in poor taste and I don't wish to be reviewed anymore at all. I think you guys (sorry to generalize) but it seems the vast majority who post have less tact and more meanspiritedness than the ones who are kind and thoughtful. The kind types and yes I happen to be one contrary to what you may think don't wish to get involved. I actually feel sorry for anyone who dares to stick up for me on here. This is largely the reason I left the business before! This board and one other much less respectable board. You have no idea how all this impacts the sessions of future clients. You think I was reserved with you!? How am I supposed to offer myself openly to someone when I think they are just going to discuss every intimate detail of our session never mind criticize my technique, personality, lack of feeling intimacy (yeah right). The only way I've been relaxed lately is not thinking about the board and thanking my lucky stars no-one was discussing me for a while. You are not putting money down to pay someone to be attracted to you!! I think that's at the root of your particular disagreement no? You certainly can't pay someone to respect you if you don't encourage them to feel comfortable and respected. No, It didn't occur to you to discuss this with me. I don't even know who you are! You just figured it's your god-given right to point out to me in public that your feelings were hurt. Isn't that it? You just wrote that you expected me to respond here on a public forum sooner than this. So you did it so that I would see it? Ask yourself. What was your motivation? To hurt me? You succeeded. To make sure I don't see other clients? Getting there. I'm a vulnerable, sensitive, human being which other clients have discovered and enjoyed and even benefited from. I know, because they tell me - in person! That part probably hadn't occured to you either. You know what you bring to your session is just as important as what the girl brings. I tend to be very good at making people feel at ease and have spent alot of years in customer service and have done well. It could also be that during our encounter was that I was uncomfortable making eye contact with you. I have one client that insists on staring directly into my eyes and yes it makes me uncomfortable at the close range he seems to enjoy (I have seen him twice). Again, I certainly can't comment on that because I don't know who you are so have no recollection of the session. So. I'll think about it another day or 2 but I think since the option seems open to me I'll request no more reviews.
 

Participant

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Feb 27, 2004
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Hey Carrie,

I wouldn't bother too much with this thread. You can't please everybody. I, myself, had a wonderful and pleasant time with you about two months ago in Ottawa. And thank you for the references for good reading for the long trip home!

Participant
 

luvdancers

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Aug 13, 2003
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Here we go again

Well, that edgy tirade is precisely why I kept this to myself for so long. Nothing I wrote is even remotely insulting to you, Carrie. Critical, but not insulting. I have gone to great pains to make it that way. In fact, though you seem to have lost sight of this, it was not even a review, it was (as someone else has tried to point out to you) making a point about reviews on TERB.

If you can't take heat, stay off this board. It's that simple. The board is not here for you, it's here for the clients. Other girls have stepped up to the plate and answered critics. I wrote two reasonable posts, and in return I get near hysterics. And I was supposed to think I could make a civil complaint to you afterwards? Ah, I see.

Then of course your fan club chimes in and tells you to not bother with it. Oh, that is perfect. Exactly why this board often does not work. Everyone loves Carrie! She can do no wrong! Stone the dissenter!

Lord, give me strength.
 

Carrie Moon

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Sep 12, 2002
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I don't think you get what my intent is. I thought about it more clearly... I don't like to be reviewed by someone who I don't know or can't respond to. I think a fair review board would be if we were also able to give our side of the experience but since this happened about 2 yrs ago... I can't. I feel violated when someone reviews me good or bad frankly. Ever hear of not 'kissing and telling'? It's a very fragile experience for both the escort and the client. That sensitivity is violated when details are spread on a review board. Your advice is good. I usually do avoid the board. I only came to see this yesterday - both your '2 yr old review' and the other line of stupidity (not yours) because a client e-mailed me and curiousity killed the cat. I was shocked at the other line honestly more than yours but yes when someone says I was rude and hides behind an anonymous board yet makes a public accusation I reacted to it. All I'm saying is my feelings on it. What offends you about that? I'm not allowed to speak because according to you the board is not for me? Who's board is this? Yours?
 

luvdancers

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Aug 13, 2003
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Excuse me, DICK

You've been around here a WHOLE two months. If you don't like this thread, move along, nothing to see here, etc.

Carrie, I have to run right at this moment but after reading your post I now understand better what you are trying to say. I will respond later this evening.
 

WhaWhaWha

Banned
Aug 17, 2001
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Between a rock and a hard place
Ever hear of not 'kissing and telling'?
You mean like the escort industry's secret blacklists they harbor against clients who find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time -- i.e. daring to ask carefully worded polite questions to an SP who is in a bad mood and would rather heap verbal abuse than politely answer or request you call later.

when someone says I was rude and hides behind an anonymous board yet makes a public accusation I reacted to it.
At least TERB is in a public forum and you can see what is being said about you. Noone is stopping you from replying. I dont think the secret black list provides the same courtesy. If the client comes forward and identifies himself to you after complaining publicly then how easily will he be able to book with someone else next time?

Carrie Moon said:
I don't like to be reviewed by someone who I don't know or can't respond to.
If noone else shares his experience or complaint, then I am sure you will not see any further reviews of the like. If you do then you will need to make some adjustments to your brand of service. Complainers are not going tocome forward and identify themselves publicly or even privately for fear of reprisal or refusal of service.


I think a fair review board would be if we were also able to give our side of the experience but since this happened about 2 yrs ago... I can't. I feel violated when someone reviews me good or bad frankly.
Who cares if its two years later. A name can stay on a black list that long.
Why should anyone -- client or SP be on a secret blacklist -- a tool that was invented and reserved for true violators of proper conduct (i.e. rapists, theives)? Why should legitimate clientelle be lumped in with these people just because they refuse to accept abuse? Or worse -- blacklisted for refusing to accept being cheated in session (e.g. the 40 minute hour, up pricing, b&s)? There was no recourse for this kind of treatment in the past. For either side!

It's a very fragile experience for both the escort and the client.
...
sensitivity is violated when details are spread on a review board.
In the days before review boards, clients were mor eoften cheated than served well by this industry. It comes with the territory. Try not to take it so personally.
 

JoyfulC

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Sep 23, 2004
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WhaWhaWha said:
You mean like the escort industry's secret blacklists they harbor against clients who find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time -- i.e. daring to ask carefully worded polite questions to an SP who is in a bad mood and would rather heap verbal abuse than politely answer or request you call later.
Yes, that does happen -- but I think most escorts (if they even bother to read a 'bad clients list') tend to take it with a grain of salt and with the incentive of wanting to give the customer the benefit of the doubt.

WhaWhaWha said:
At least TERB is in a public forum and you can see what is being said about you.
I always recommend to escorts that perhaps it's better if they don't look, don't know.

After all, there's little you can do about a subjective view -- no matter what you try to do, there will be a criticism of it. So maybe it's better just not to look, not to know, not to respond.

In the event that the review is less-than-favourable, perhaps it will cause some people to avoid a particular escort -- but all any escort can do is her best, one appointment at a time. If she does this, she'll get valuable repeat business. And those who perhaps didn't choose to see her over some subjective review take their chances. They might be winners, they might be losers -- but in any event, they put their fate in someone else's hands. (... which basically makes them sheep.)

WhaWhaWha said:
I dont think the secret black list provides the same courtesy.
"Black lists" aren't secret to keep bad clients from responding -- they're secret because escorts require a level of information that isn't usually publicly advertised to avoid bad clients -- phone numbers, addresses, verified names, e-mail addresses, IPs, etc. This isn't done secretly to disadvantage bad clients -- but rather to protect those who might be unfairly labelled as bad clients from having their personal information spread all over the internet and their discretion violated.

Would you rather that bad client lists be posted publicly? When escorts are reviewed, the contact information provided on them is already publicly advertised. This is no the case for customers -- and most customers expect us to keep this info confidential. So that's why bad client lists are available to known escorts only.

WhaWhaWha said:
If the client comes forward and identifies himself to you after complaining publicly then how easily will he be able to book with someone else next time?
Do you really think that escorts are so stupid as to allow other escorts as to tell them who to see?

If customers are this silly, that's their problem. But I think most escorts are more familiar with the term "subjectivity," and more willing to give a gentleman the benefit of the doubt.


WhaWhaWha said:
If noone else shares his experience or complaint, then I am sure you will not see any further reviews of the like. If you do then you will need to make some adjustments to your brand of service. Complainers are not going tocome forward and identify themselves publicly or even privately for fear of reprisal or refusal of service.
But why not? What does a customer who points out a problem with an escort providing bad service have to fear from any escort attempting to provide good service?

Your comment implies that all escorts aspire to get away with bad service -- and so we'd all hold it against someone who objected to receiving bad service. Sorry, but that's not the case at all. But at the same time, most good escorts have suffered as much at the hands of customers who have knowingly paid for bad service (such as someone who misrepresented herself in her advertising), as we have from bad customers.

We can try to be good escorts -- but for your part, we need you to try to be good customers too. If you walk into a situation that is not as advertised, where there is a bait-&-switch, or whatever, then rather than give a bad review in retrospect, what we really need from you is for you to act as good consumers. Just say no! Turn on your heel and walk out.

But to go through with it -- reward our cheating competition -- and then post a cowardly review months later really doesn't help us at all.

Rather than punishing bad escorts, you need to start thinking in terms of rewarding good ones.

...cont'd...
 

JoyfulC

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WhaWhaWha said:
Who cares if its two years later. A name can stay on a black list that long. Why should anyone -- client or SP be on a secret blacklist -- a tool that was invented and reserved for true violators of proper conduct (i.e. rapists, theives)? Why should legitimate clientelle be lumped in with these people just because they refuse to accept abuse? Or worse -- blacklisted for refusing to accept being cheated in session (e.g. the 40 minute hour, up pricing, b&s)? There was no recourse for this kind of treatment in the past. For either side!
I agree with you here. Sometimes the wrong guys end up on bad client lists. And sometimes escorts get bad reviews they don't deserve (sometimes bogus, sometimes from unreasonable customers).

I guess you're right -- all any of us can do is to roll with the punches and try to avoid the looney-tunes out there.

A good customer will never find it hard to get a good escort. And a good escort will never find it had to get a good client. Regardless of what nonsense happens on review boards or bad client lists -- because most of us online these days realize that those who badmouth usually had every opportunity to sort out their problems before it got to the point of being a bad experience. It's only those who were foolish who end up posting bad reviews or bad client reports.

Myself? I'd be hardpressed to identify a bad client to post about any time over the past few years. That's not to say that I haven't had my problems -- only that they were something that I could sort through at the time.

WhaWhaWha said:
In the days before review boards, clients were mor eoften cheated than served well by this industry. It comes with the territory. Try not to take it so personally.
That's what you hear from customers. SPs might have different stories to tell.

I still feel that there are a lot of people getting cheated -- on both sides -- every day. But the most valuable information online for either of us isn't about who to avoid, but how to make better choices to achieve better outcomes.

..c..
 

luvdancers

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Aug 13, 2003
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Follow-up to my earlier note

Carrie Moon said:
I think a fair review board would be if we were also able to give our side of the experience but since this happened about 2 yrs ago... I can't.
You have a good point. In fact, I never considered that aspect, and I sincerely apologize for blindsiding you. Naming you was just one of the details I included in the post, and as such I guess the fact that it IS history, did not push how it might look from your end, to the front of my head.

I can PM you and give you details, no obligation if you don't recall me or don't want to reply. If you look at my history on this board (if that function still exists), you will see I don't hang around here to ream people out. And I don't think I have ever actually reviewed an SP, though I may have added info to others' threads.

(Ironically enough, I am in the midst of defending Arrissa against slings and arrows and hot tar, over on another thread. I must be double-jointed.)

Carrie Moon said:
It's a very fragile experience for both the escort and the client.
Well, yes, and I'd ask you to more carefully consider your position that a client is supposed to talk to you after, or the day after, or whatever to complain. A negative experience does not exactly leave the client in a state of mind to deal with the SP again.

Carrie Moon said:
when someone says I was rude and hides behind an anonymous board yet makes a public accusation I reacted to it. All I'm saying is my feelings on it. What offends you about that? I'm not allowed to speak because according to you the board is not for me? Who's board is this? Yours?
Hides? I find that to be an odd statement. Heck, I will PM you my home phone # if you want it, though I suspect you don't right about now. Sure you can react, but more than once perfectly fair comments on this board have resulted in emotional tirades and even threats of legal action from local SPs.

Maybe all SPs who hang out here should consider taking a page from Alex's (Alexa Taylor's) book. She got what I think was the shabbiest treatment I have ever seen here, from one or two loudmouths a while back, and she stood and punched back toe to toe. That is the way WWW boards work.

Whose board is it? Well it's called the Toronto Escort Review Board, not the Toronto Client Review Board. What more do you want me to say?
 

Carrie Moon

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Sep 12, 2002
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I thank you immensely for you response. You show a lot more class than some of your colleagues. The thing with a dymamic board is that when you say one negative (or positive thing as you pointed out) the rest chime in!! If 9 out of 10 say it's a great exerience and one says it's lousy someone who hasn't even seen me says 'yeah I knew I should stay away'... but honestly it was that plus my past experiences on another board plus the whole stupid thread by the other non-gentlemen that shocked me and yes I was understandably upset!. Never mind the fragility of the escort visit. We all have lives to live. Both Christine and Alexa are much better at handling slings and arrows than myself. I know of another close friend of mine who was a beloved escort and quit also partly due to the boards. I can't just stay off the boards.... this is my livelihood and my life! You can pm me your phone # and I would definitely love to hear about what you think I could do to improve the experience for the next guy as you have no intention of repeating. I bet we'd have some great conversations but probably not sex again...lol. Keep in mind though that 25 people can meet the same person or see the same movie or hear the same speech and have 25 different versions of what they saw, heard and felt. I can't be the same thing to all people even if I behave the same way. I did read some of your earlier threads and thought it quite Ironic that you liked Arissa so much. She and I used to work together and while I was the 'darling' of the board she was not. Just goes to show you again that people chiming in is a sociological fact. It's called group mentality. In a perfect review board world I don't think any client should be allowed to review on a publicly viewed board unless pming the escort in question, he identifies himself to the lady, and her being allowed to retort... that is of course if she's on the board herself. Girls in the 'sun' who are not internet savy won't have to know about it. I was able to do this once with a client as I knew exactly who he was and I felt like I had my say. There's much less violation there in my opionion. The violation occurs when someone does not only do this but (again see other stupid thread for example) others get on and verbally throw taunts at the escort. Hey. I'm a person. Not a movie.
 
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Metoo4

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Mar 6, 2004
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Great!

Now, that's great! Since this thread had resurfaced, no name calling, no insults, just civilized discussion. That's the way it should be.

Thanks guys and gals! :)
 

Jabba

Indy reviewer
May 15, 2003
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Terb Diaries

I hope Fred doesn't pay for webspace by the word. Wow! - The amount of articulation and nuance and geeze, I dunno... "verbal flavouring" (is that a legit analogy?) that is going on here to persuade somebody of something is absolutly mind-numbing. Carrie - I will never see you simply because I choose not to. "Good - 'cuz I don't want to see you either", you may say. Whew - that was simple, wasn't it?
 

luvdancers

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Aug 13, 2003
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Wherein I get the final word (maybe, maybe not)

Carrie Moon said:
You can pm me your phone # and I would definitely love to hear about what you think I could do to improve the experience for the next guy as you have no intention of repeating. I bet we'd have some great conversations but probably not sex again...lol. .
You never know....

Anyway, for the moment, you need to clear out your messages.... no doubt tens of terbites, expressing their tender appreciation for our thread. As if. :eek:

LoL
 
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Carrie Moon

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Sep 12, 2002
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Thanks. Got you pm... and now in order for me to reply, you need to clear your box! lol... but I just said basically I appreciate your openness to send me your #. cheers, Carrie.
 

Carrie Moon

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Sep 12, 2002
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I'm on my way!!! Man. It's a hot one today... cu soon. hugs. C.
 

Sasha Jones

Smart Ass ;-)
Aug 17, 2001
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Really Retired.....REALLY!
WhaWhaWha said:
Years ago I had the misfortune of throwing money for nothing at Sasha Jones who was cold as ice,

So why didn't you ever write a review to that effect?
Christ, whenever some troll came on the board spouting off about how bad I was and people stood up for me I practically begged someone who had actually seen me to write a bad review, and now two or three years after I stopped taking new clients I find out that there actually was someone who could have done it. Not that I never thought there wasn't, I never claimed to be perfect no matter how many people stood behind me.
 

neverwas

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Nov 3, 2001
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It never surprised me when Sasha Jones evoked strong responses. I saw her three times and loved her wit and sparkling personality. I can understand how some people would have been put off, but anyone reading her posts or looking at her web site should have known what to expect.
Even her detractors would have to admit she was honest about who she was and what a client could expect.
 
Ashley Madison
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