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LILLEY: Ignore Ford's critics who oppose every effort to build homes

Not getting younger

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2022
4,581
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But, Doug doesn't and/or didn't know all these things that he did and/or were done without his knowledge, just like he didn't know about the corrupt process scheme to reward his developer puppet masters with a $8.3billion Greenbelt land windfall that happened without his knowledge right under his nose.

It makes perfect sense folks. The Greenbelt, one of, if not the most politically fraught and sensitive files and he did not know what was going in plain sight!
Well that at least I can agree with. Can also say, knew all about brother Rob, long long before the world did….Anyone that is surprised Ford doing something shady. Don’t know what to say. Other than own up, man up. You made the bed, that created the situation for him….deal with it…and I strongly suspect you still don’t grasp the shit hole we are in.

Excuses for giving JT a pass on WE, SNC (want to talk developer friends???) JWR and more..????

one other thing. “Tax the rich”? Maybe, but people seem to forget they have mobility…..can and will move to tax friendly places…take their companies and jobs with them….and what do you think I did for years ( amongst other things) other than to help them shelter money outside Canada.

And while I’m at it.
Not only are you ignoring Boomers ( and more) , companies and employees have finally discovered the benefits of remote work. Why pay GTA salaries, and taxes. when……..

Debt up to our eyeballs, Boomers about to crush things, plus far ranging ripple effects, serious problems like healthcare, hydro, tent cities, crime and more. Taxed to the max already..The MC and lower living pay check to paycheck, no or not much room to increase revenue, especially now with inflation, and

The freedom.
To avoid GTA salaries, and taxes ( for companies and employees). Just curious, how do you plan to keep them here? By raising taxes? Lowering them? More prices on emissions? One company I did some work for a few years ago…..expanding like mad in Singapore…….not putting much investment into Canada anymore….

But what about all that debt……..let alone healthcare cost exploding…..and soooooooo many new people…looking for work, and a roof over their head.

one relative.
Already decided smartly to get out of dodge. Working, living paying taxes in Costa Rica.all she’s needs is a decent internet connection.

Coulda, shoulda listened. Some have to learn the hard way. Hope you enjoy the ride.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
81,324
18,062
113
one other thing. “Tax the rich”? Maybe, but people seem to forget they have mobility…..can and will move to tax friendly places…take their companies and jobs with them….and what do you think I did for years ( amongst other things) other than to help them shelter money outside Canada.
Favourite excuse of right wing media, sold to you by the rich.
You know the solution but bought this story so instead you whine about the problems and can't find any other way to fix the problems.

Just like you're now bending over and letting DoFo's developer buddies do Ontario up the arse because you think somehow those Greenbelt builds will be good for you.
Even among conservatives your views are on the fringe.

 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
6,823
2,285
113
Whether it is good policy to release green belt lands for housing development and, if so, how should that be done are 2 entirely different questions. The people who insist on merging the two issues do so because they know that their arguments on the first question are not really that persuasive.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,137
2,770
113
Whether it is good policy to release green belt lands for housing development and, if so, how should that be done are 2 entirely different questions. The people who insist on merging the two issues do so because they know that their arguments on the first question are not really that persuasive.
You know what, maybe Ford disagrees with you because he and you and the others are unable to justify, explain, and/or otherwise rationalize a goddam thing:


Doug Ford can’t bluster his way out of the Greenbelt controversy


By Star Editorial Board
Wednesday, August 16, 2023


At a news conference last week, Ontario Premier Doug Ford challenged the findings of the province’s auditor general that developers got preferential treatment in the decision to open Greenbelt lands to development.

Deny, obfuscate and stonewall.

That is the playbook that Premier Doug Ford and Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing Steve Clark are following in the wake of a scathing report by Auditor General Bonnie Lysyk about the deeply flawed and biased process in Greenbelt land swaps.

In the process, they are amassing a credibility-destroying catalogue of deceits.

They claim they did not know about the way developers enjoyed special access during the process.

They expect Ontarians to believe that such a critical, controversial high-stakes venture much in the news was master-minded by Clark’s chief of staff, Ryan Amato who kept his political bosses in the dark.

On the face of it, the contention is preposterous.

It flies in the face of Ford’s own nature. It contradicts the operating practice of a government famously controlled by the premier’s office. It suggests a political staffer would risk career suicide by operating behind the backs of his superiors.

Ford’s capacity for self-delusion was on display during a question-and-answer session with reporters last Friday.

“No one had preferential treatment,” he snapped when asked to explain what Lysyk described as precisely that.

Yet that is the very conclusion of Lysyk’s report: “Direct access to the Housing Minister’s chief of staff resulted in certain prominent developers receiving preferential treatment,” it stated.

“What occurred here cannot be described as a standard or defensible process.”

This was not a failure of bureaucracy. This was the result of a political process run amok that deliberately excluded the checks and balances of the civil service in apparent pursuit of a predetermined outcome.

Ford’s own action belies his denial. He was quick to accept 14 of Lysyk’s 15 recommendations to address the flawed process and special access to decision-makers that she had identified.

The premier’s knee-jerk denial of preferential treatment suggests that transparency and accountability are not his paramount interests.

Moreover, his refusal to accept Lysyk’s key recommendation — that the decision to open up Greenbelt lands for development be reviewed — is unacceptable given the serious problems revealed in her report.

It’s critical to remember what’s at stake. The preferential treatment could benefit the PC government’s developer friends to the tune of $8 billion or more. Those are 2016 estimates. The value of the lands to be opened up for development are no doubt worth far more.

Sadly, Ford has shared his view that the end — in this case, the construction of housing — justifies the means to enable it. He still refuses to acknowledge that Greenbelt land is not required for new housing, as proven by his own government’s report, and those homes will do nothing to solve the affordable housing crisis.
Indeed, as Ford stuck to his claims of blissful obliviousness to what took place under his watch, the provincial government launched an ad blitz in the wake of the auditor general’s report to promote its housing agenda.

That fits with the Ford government’s overall damage control strategy. Push through whatever they want with reckless abandon, then ride out the furor rather than do the right thing. As one Tory insider remarked, “I think we can weather this for now.”

That cynical view may fit Ford’s sense of ethics. But Ontarians set a higher ethical bar for their politicians. The government’s response smacks of a cover-up. There has been no effort to right a wrong.

That Amato and Clark still have jobs is incredulous. That the Progressive Conservative government is pushing ahead with this flawed Greenbelt development defies belief.

The entire affairs requires an immediate investigation by the Ontario Provincial Police. The premier will not call a judicial inquiry and the opposition parties don’t have that power, so that only leaves the OPP to find out if this troubled scheme broke any laws.

Hubris leads to downfall. The truth has a way of coming out. There are ongoing investigations into the Greenbelt scandal and a press gallery digging up facts.

Ford’s response to this controversy demeans his government.
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
6,823
2,285
113
You know what, maybe Ford disagrees with you because he and you and the others are unable to justify, explain, and/or otherwise rationalize a goddam thing:


Doug Ford can’t bluster his way out of the Greenbelt controversy


By Star Editorial Board
Wednesday, August 16, 2023


At a news conference last week, Ontario Premier Doug Ford challenged the findings of the province’s auditor general that developers got preferential treatment in the decision to open Greenbelt lands to development.

Deny, obfuscate and stonewall.

That is the playbook that Premier Doug Ford and Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing Steve Clark are following in the wake of a scathing report by Auditor General Bonnie Lysyk about the deeply flawed and biased process in Greenbelt land swaps.

In the process, they are amassing a credibility-destroying catalogue of deceits.

They claim they did not know about the way developers enjoyed special access during the process.

They expect Ontarians to believe that such a critical, controversial high-stakes venture much in the news was master-minded by Clark’s chief of staff, Ryan Amato who kept his political bosses in the dark.

On the face of it, the contention is preposterous.

It flies in the face of Ford’s own nature. It contradicts the operating practice of a government famously controlled by the premier’s office. It suggests a political staffer would risk career suicide by operating behind the backs of his superiors.

Ford’s capacity for self-delusion was on display during a question-and-answer session with reporters last Friday.

“No one had preferential treatment,” he snapped when asked to explain what Lysyk described as precisely that.

Yet that is the very conclusion of Lysyk’s report: “Direct access to the Housing Minister’s chief of staff resulted in certain prominent developers receiving preferential treatment,” it stated.

“What occurred here cannot be described as a standard or defensible process.”

This was not a failure of bureaucracy. This was the result of a political process run amok that deliberately excluded the checks and balances of the civil service in apparent pursuit of a predetermined outcome.

Ford’s own action belies his denial. He was quick to accept 14 of Lysyk’s 15 recommendations to address the flawed process and special access to decision-makers that she had identified.

The premier’s knee-jerk denial of preferential treatment suggests that transparency and accountability are not his paramount interests.

Moreover, his refusal to accept Lysyk’s key recommendation — that the decision to open up Greenbelt lands for development be reviewed — is unacceptable given the serious problems revealed in her report.

It’s critical to remember what’s at stake. The preferential treatment could benefit the PC government’s developer friends to the tune of $8 billion or more. Those are 2016 estimates. The value of the lands to be opened up for development are no doubt worth far more.

Sadly, Ford has shared his view that the end — in this case, the construction of housing — justifies the means to enable it. He still refuses to acknowledge that Greenbelt land is not required for new housing, as proven by his own government’s report, and those homes will do nothing to solve the affordable housing crisis.
Indeed, as Ford stuck to his claims of blissful obliviousness to what took place under his watch, the provincial government launched an ad blitz in the wake of the auditor general’s report to promote its housing agenda.

That fits with the Ford government’s overall damage control strategy. Push through whatever they want with reckless abandon, then ride out the furor rather than do the right thing. As one Tory insider remarked, “I think we can weather this for now.”

That cynical view may fit Ford’s sense of ethics. But Ontarians set a higher ethical bar for their politicians. The government’s response smacks of a cover-up. There has been no effort to right a wrong.

That Amato and Clark still have jobs is incredulous. That the Progressive Conservative government is pushing ahead with this flawed Greenbelt development defies belief.

The entire affairs requires an immediate investigation by the Ontario Provincial Police. The premier will not call a judicial inquiry and the opposition parties don’t have that power, so that only leaves the OPP to find out if this troubled scheme broke any laws.

Hubris leads to downfall. The truth has a way of coming out. There are ongoing investigations into the Greenbelt scandal and a press gallery digging up facts.

Ford’s response to this controversy demeans his government.
Ford has lots to account for regarding HOW the land was released. Even when you're doing the right thing, it matters if you are only distributing the collateral benefits to your political friends. I've often said that Ford's weakness is that he tends to operate according to his donor's wishes.

However, that doesn't support the conclusion that developing housing on those lands is bad social policy, or won't address the housing shortages AT ALL LEVELS OF THE HOUSING MARKET. In my view, even if you accept the view that other land is also available, you could only get riled up about this separate issue if your environmental concerns (which are highly speculative) trump your concerns about the severe shortage of housing, and its impact on inflation (an inarguable reality, denied by no political party).
 
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Not getting younger

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2022
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“Clarity” People.

Am beyond surprised, no incredulous so much has to be said. Whether it’s related to boomers….remote work….healthcare…debt up to our eyeballs. None of this has not been harped about for years..is common knowledge….and yet…few seem to grasp just how bad things are. I honestly doubt anyone can fix it now.

or simply
The differences between provincial and municipal governments


Ford may be a shyster, but at the end of the day…….he is there because…… and We are in a world of trouble, with a litany of problems, only one of which is the cost of living/housing and numbers of new residents each year…and it’s ONLY going to get worse. Likely much.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
81,324
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Ford has lots to account for regarding HOW the land was released. Even when you're doing the right thing, it matters if you are only distributing the collateral benefits to your political friends. I've often said that Ford's weakness is that he tends to operate according to his donor's wishes.

However, that doesn't support the conclusion that developing housing on those lands is bad social policy, or won't address the housing shortages AT ALL LEVELS OF THE HOUSING MARKET. In my view, even if you accept the view that other land is also available, you could only get riled up about this separate issue if your environmental concerns (which are highly speculative) trump your concerns about the severe shortage of housing, and its impact on inflation (an inarguable reality, denied by no political party).

The government's own reports already stated there was lots of land without digging into the 5% of Ontario that's suitable for agriculture.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
81,324
18,062
113
“Clarity” People.

Am beyond surprised, no incredulous so much has to be said. Whether it’s related to boomers….remote work….healthcare…debt up to our eyeballs. None of this has not been harped about for years..is common knowledge….and yet…few seem to grasp just how bad things are. I honestly doubt anyone can fix it now.

or simply
The differences between provincial and municipal governments


Ford may be a shyster, but at the end of the day…….he is there because…… and We are in a world of trouble, with a litany of problems, only one of which is the cost of living/housing and numbers of new residents each year…and it’s ONLY going to get worse. Likely much.
Is English your first language?

And yes, people can fix it.
Just not DoFo and the cons.
 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
18,638
5,222
113
Lewiston, NY
Favourite excuse of right wing media, sold to you by the rich.
You know the solution but bought this story so instead you whine about the problems and can't find any other way to fix the problems.

Just like you're now bending over and letting DoFo's developer buddies do Ontario up the arse because you think somehow those Greenbelt builds will be good for you.
Even among conservatives your views are on the fringe.

Luv that Canadian content stuff 🤑 💰🤑💰...
 

Not getting younger

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2022
4,581
2,476
113
The government's own reports already stated there was lots of land without digging into the 5% of Ontario that's suitable for agriculture.
Where were your screams and the GTAs while wind farms were bein ramned down people throats….Where do you think they are…other than not your backyard..

And as far as “higher bars” go. Try waking the talk and the populist/Fords/Trumps/PPs of the world won’t have the opportunity….

/points to McWynne, and Fords massive majority. And the utter shit hole he inherited..and what’s coming…
/points to Ottawa today.

There’s an old cliche about getting the governments you deserve.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
81,324
18,062
113
Where were your screams and the GTAs while wind farms were bein ramned down people throats….Where do you think they are…other than not your backyard..

And as far as “higher bars” go. Try waking the talk and the populist/Fords/Trumps/PPs of the world won’t have the opportunity….

/points to McWynne, and Fords massive majority. And the utter shit hole he inherited..and what’s coming…
/points to Ottawa today.

There’s an old cliche about getting the governments you deserve.
Wind farms? Are you on crack like DoFo's dead brother?

Greenbelt, nurses, health care, education and general corruption mean DoFo is done.
 

Not getting younger

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2022
4,581
2,476
113
Is English your first language?

And yes, people can fix it.
Just not DoFo and the cons.
Says the guys that has less than rudimentary knowledge of oh so much. Sticks his foot in his mouth all the time.. Is that supposed to sting or is it just the fact you don’t like having to face ugly truths namely the mirror.

As for Ford or other, especially any brand of Liberal that might be found. Why the F would you expect the same people that have made a horrible mess of things, to be capable…hello McFly?

Name one other occasion, in the history of politics, Fed or Prov, a highly respected (very left wing) economist had to be called in. To tell both a government and you….what they fucked up and how to fix it..
“Clueless”? Yeah that’s the left side..

And You still didn’t listen..not even today.
definition of insanity?
You fit it.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
81,324
18,062
113
Says the guys that has less than rudimentary knowledge of oh so much. Sticks his foot in his mouth all the time.. Is that supposed to sting or is it just the fact you don’t like having to face ugly truths namely the mirror.

As for Ford or other, especially any brand of Liberal that might be found. Why the F would you expect the same people that have made a horrible mess of things, to be capable…hello McFly?

Name one other occasion, in the history of politics, Fed or Prov, a highly respected (very left wing) economist had to be called in. To tell both a government and you….what they fucked up and how to fix it..
“Clueless”? Yeah that’s the left side..

And You still didn’t listen..not even today.
definition of insanity?
You fit it.
That's a lot of insults from a guy who still appears to be pushing 'trickle down economics', despite it having failed every single time.
You're pushing a system that caused everything you complain about.

Try MMT, instead.

This is the Ford model.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,435
2,303
113
Ford has lots to account for regarding HOW the land was released. Even when you're doing the right thing, it matters if you are only distributing the collateral benefits to your political friends. I've often said that Ford's weakness is that he tends to operate according to his donor's wishes.

However, that doesn't support the conclusion that developing housing on those lands is bad social policy, or won't address the housing shortages AT ALL LEVELS OF THE HOUSING MARKET. In my view, even if you accept the view that other land is also available, you could only get riled up about this separate issue if your environmental concerns (which are highly speculative) trump your concerns about the severe shortage of housing, and its impact on inflation (an inarguable reality, denied by no political party).
correct, sound policy, poor execution , poor optics
 
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basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
59,931
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I love the PR campaign they've started about building affordable houses near transit. I wonder how many bus stops are running to those farmer's fields?
 

Y_Diner

Well-known member
Mar 5, 2019
1,726
1,634
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Again, more people that are brainwashed by Ford nation. These people are less of a waste of time and effort, and when they complain about their King finally screwing them over, I shall point and laugh and say “ohhh well, okay, vote for him again”!
 
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squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
18,103
12,467
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The developers know how to play the game. Poor Bonnie, she is going to get smeared in Developer green too.


So much for the biased Liberal MSM spin since I've been hearing about this in the news all morning. Hmmmmm
 
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