Light bulbs.

[Titalian]

The link is to outdoor lights, where the light and ballast is separate. CFL are one assembly. I don't really know, was going to measure one here with a meter, but not tonight.

LEDs would be great for cars as they are not as vibration and shock sensitive, and longer lasting. Doubt it has much to do with power consumption, but I could be wrong.

I know its outdoor lighting, but it gives you a basis. They don't test CFLs with a meter they basing the consumption of energy from wattage, never taking the ballast into consideration.

As for cars your right about vibration but also the duration or life of the bulb.

 

[MissCroft]

Chloe I'm confused? What little pink and blue bulbs?

They are Noma 4w nightlight bulbs (with candelabra base - I'm reading the pack right now. LOL) I have a small bedside lamp that I use them in - buy them at Canadian Tire. Bought tons because I was worried they were going to be discontinued. I'm weird like that.

I thought you'd be hoarding red bulbs.

Roxanne

You don't have to turn on the red light
Those days are over,
You don't have to sell your body to the night

 

[Booty Lover]

...
LEDs would be great for cars as they are not as vibration and shock sensitive, and they have a longer life. Doubt it has much to do with power consumption, but I could be wrong.

You are right but power consumption also plays a big part in the switch. More power requires more energy. More energy requires more fuel. With car manufactures focusing on better fuel consumption they try to squeeze what they can. that is also why many are going with electronic power steering rather then hydraulic. which can give them usually an extra .5 HP from the motor because of less energy needed for EPS.

Titalian you also made my other point about lifespan.

 

[oldjones]

I know its outdoor lighting, but it gives you a basis. They don't test CFLs with a meter they basing the consumption of energy from wattage, never taking the ballast into consideration.

As for cars your right about vibration but also the duration or life of the bulb.

How would 'they' measure the wattage the glass bulb uses separately from the electronic ballast, when the two functions are combined in a single integrated unit like a spiral fluorescent bulb[CFL]? I think you owe us a reference to back up the assertion that measurement of the energy consumption of fluoros is done "never taking the ballast into consideration". Any fluorescent without a ballast will consume zero watts, because it won't light up at all.

 

[one.of.a.kind]

They are Noma 4w nightlight bulbs (with candelabra base - I'm reading the pack right now. LOL) I have a small bedside lamp that I use them in - buy them at Canadian Tire. Bought tons because I was worried they were going to be discontinued. I'm weird like that.






Roxanne

You don't have to turn on the red light
Those days are over,
You don't have to sell your body to the night

Roxanne. Don't know what you mean by the name luv. Couldn't be derogatory, right? Amsterdam still has its red light district. Never did catch on really in North America.

Sell. Always found it an interesting term. Rent would have been more appropriate.

 

[MissCroft]

How would 'they' measure the wattage the glass bulb uses separately from the electronic ballast, when the two functions are combined in a single integrated unit like a spiral fluorescent bulb[CFL]? I think you owe us a reference to back up the assertion that measurement of the energy consumption of fluoros is done "never taking the ballast into consideration". Any fluorescent without a ballast will consume zero watts, because it won't light up at all.

My head hurts.

 

[Booty Lover]

How would 'they' measure the wattage the glass bulb uses separately from the electronic ballast, when the two functions are combined in a single integrated unit like a spiral fluorescent bulb[CFL]? I think you owe us a reference to back up the assertion that measurement of the energy consumption of fluoros is done "never taking the ballast into consideration". Any fluorescent without a ballast will consume zero watts, because it won't light up at all.

You have two points in a CFL. One before the ballast and one after. one can measure the energy used before to power both the ballast and the CFL and one can measure the energy used after the ballast to power the CFL. A CFL may only require 15W power from the ballast but 20W to power both the ballast and the CFL. A CFL will have a 15W rating meaning if the Ballast can not supply minimum of 15W the CFL will not light up as that is the required power to ignite the Gas. Which is what most CFL Ratings are for.

For a breif info how a CFL works Check this out

 

[oldjones]

Thanks, but that's how it works, not how its energy consumption is officially rated. Rating a CFL bulb where the ballast is integral—unlike old tube fixtures where ballasts could be replaced—for power draw as you describe would seem pointless. It would be like rating a 60Watt incandescent at 6Watts because 90% of the energy goes to heat not light. Got a reference for that standard?

 

[nobody123]

I'm in that lighting biz, and I can tell you that Led is not a true light source no matter how they try and disguise the color. In fact some large
Restaurant chains are refusing to use them cause leds make their food look like shit. Just a little tid bit, there's more to this story about leds.

You have to be blind not to notice how harsh and shitty LED lighting is. I love the idea of saving a few bucks and using less electricity, it's a win-win. But man, they look like crap. I've only had the heart to install them in rooms where I don't spend a lot of time. The one in the pic is a bit better than most, but still a stark, eye-stabby light. Like lighting your room with one of those fucking LED flashlights.

 

[bolt.upright]

Roxanne. Don't know what you mean by the name luv. Couldn't be derogatory, right? Amsterdam still has its red light district. Never did catch on really in North America.

You young people. It's a song, by the Police:

 

[one.of.a.kind]

You young people. It's a song, by the Police:

Oh, you are in my good books. Where do I mail the $20?

 

[bolt.upright]

Oh, you are in my good books. Where do I mail the $20?

Lol! How about the Ontario Humane Society? http://www.ontariospca.ca/

 

[Booty Lover]

Thanks, but that's how it works, not how its energy consumption is officially rated. Rating a CFL bulb where the ballast is integral—unlike old tube fixtures where ballasts could be replaced—for power draw as you describe would seem pointless. It would be like rating a 60Watt incandescent at 6Watts because 90% of the energy goes to heat not light. Got a reference for that standard?

energy consumption is officially rated by the number of lumens produced for each watt of electrical power used or how many watt's of power (energy) is used to output say 800 lumens (typical 60w incandescent bulb) So to answer your question a CFL energy ratings does in fact include the ballast as they are one unit. however what Titalian was mentioning was standard fluorescent bulbs which do have two separated components and are rated without the ballasts.

I merely pointed out how one could rate a CFL but the actual CFL ratings are taken as a complete unit as that is what a CFL is.

Either way an LED is still more energy efficient then a CFL outputting the same lumens. For Reference look at the Energy efficiency section about a quarter the way down the page.

Other advantages of LED over CFL are heat but more importantly CFL use mercury and are bad for the enviorment. As well as Lifespan is greater with LED

 

[Promo]

I'm in that lighting biz, and I can tell you that Led is not a true light source no matter how they try and disguise the color. In fact some large
Restaurant chains are refusing to use them cause leds make their food look like shit. Just a little tid bit, there's more to this story about leds.

How do you define a "true light source"? Colours are not "disguised".

I think you are confusing terms /concepts. It's colour temperature, brightness (Lumens) and directionality that are of concern of restaurateurs. This chart will help explain: http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/article/colour-temperature/ , but this is the important one: http://cool.conservation-us.org/waac/wn/wn21/wn21-3/wn21-308.html. See the comments about A.A. Kruithof's research.
Natural daylight at high noon is typically defined as 5600K. Bulbs rated in the 5000 - 6000 range are typically called "daylight". Most importantly, it's the combination of colour and lumens that we humans perceive in different ways.

Many less expensive LED bulbs are rated 2700K / warm white including One.of.a.kind's bulb: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...t-Bulb-4-Pack-433227/204780591#specifications Because the light is more yellow/orange/white (natural light is more blue/white) and most LEDs are bright and directional many people find 2700K LEDs harsh and make the colour of your skin and food look grey. If you took the same bulb and either reduced the output or diffused the light, most people would find it less objectionable while eating.

BTW, 5000K lower wattage LED bulbs are most recommended for restaurants when used for direct table lighting. If you are working in the industry, please look at your supplier's information. Different LED bulbs ratings and colour temperatures are used for different purposes in professional lighting.

 

[Promo]

energy consumption is officially rated by the number of lumens produced for each watt of electrical power used or how many watt's of power (energy) is used to output say 800 lumens (typical 60w incandescent bulb) So to answer your question a CFL energy ratings does in fact include the ballast as they are one unit. however what Titalian was mentioning was standard fluorescent bulbs which do have two separated components and are rated without the ballasts.

Exactly right. CFL bulb power and efficiency ratings indeed include the ballast. Also agree that it's the old-style institutional lighting fixtures that rated the bulbs separate from the ballasts.

I think Titalian needs to go back to lighting biz school.

 

[Promo]

Dimmable Bulbs
I've found with many LED bulbs that are dimmable, don't work well with some dimmer switches, especially the electronic and remote control switches. I have several expensive fixtures with electronic dimmers that I have to install 1 incandescent bulb to support 1 or more LED bulbs. I've understand the problem is based upon how the dimmer works. Some lower voltage but leave the sine wave intact. Others modify the duty cycle of the sine wave which some dimmable LED bulbs don't like.

lifespan
I've yet to own a CFL bulb that came even close to it's rated life span. I know turning them on and off greatly reduces their life, but many I've owned were barely 1.5X incandescent bulbs.

buzzing
Yes, I have several 3-way LED bulbs that buzz. All are Philips bulbs. All the ones that I have problems with dimmers are also Philips. I guess I should stop buying Philips bulbs.

 

[Booty Lover]

How do you define a "true light source"? Colours are not "disguised".

I think you are confusing terms /concepts. It's colour temperature, brightness (Lumens) and directionality that are of concern of restaurateurs. This chart will help explain: http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/article/colour-temperature/ , but this is the important one: http://cool.conservation-us.org/waac/wn/wn21/wn21-3/wn21-308.html. See the comments about A.A. Kruithof's research.
Natural daylight at high noon is typically defined as 5600K. Bulbs rated in the 5000 - 6000 range are typically called "daylight". More importantly, it's the combination of colour and brightness that we humans perceive in different ways.

Many less expensive LED bulbs are rated 2700K / warm white including One.of.a.kind's bulb: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...t-Bulb-4-Pack-433227/204780591#specifications Because the light is more yellow/orange/white (natural light is more blue/white) and most LEDs are bright and directional many people find 2700K LEDs harsh and make the colour of your skin and food look grey. If you took the same bulb and either reduced the output or diffused the light, most people would find it less objectionable while eating.

BTW, 5000K lower wattage LED bulbs are most recommended for restaurants when used for direct table lighting. If you are working in the industry, please look at your supplier's information. Different LED bulbs ratings and colour temperatures are used for different purposes in professional lighting.

Agreed. the same goes for office lighting which most like to use Daylight (5000K) as it tends to give the best lighting when working at a computer screen all day with the least amount of eye strain and glare.

What you might find is most restaurants want mood lighting. so they go with the warm white but Daylight which is dimmable can produce a mood setting while maintaining the same color temperature. The problem is restaurant owners are not lighting specialist and will request warm white and well the saying of the customer is always right is complete and utter false. There is a reason why they hire a lighting expert. Any expert would explain to them the reasoning behind why there request is a bad choice.

Like you explained Daylight should be used in a restaurant above tables though not required through out. You can mix with Warm White for say Accent lighting (light up decor on walls). Another point one has to look at is the beam angle which is the degree of the beam at a certain height. the average pot light bulb is about 36-38 degrees. This plays a big part in light spacing. you want lights to mildly overlap in a restaurant giving a more fuzzed light while in a office you want the overlap to give a more consistent light throughout.

LED technology as mentioned has come a long way and is still improving as it has many benefits. With every thing there is quality products and not cheap poor quality products.

I recently picked up some LED 6w (50w comparable) 3000k bulbs from Costco $5 per pack of 3 ($14 a pack) and compared to a 60w 2700k halogen they look better with slightly better color temp as one would expect 300k makes a difference. but the light out put when both are dimmed the same is the LED is easily 40% brighter. One can really see the difference.

 

[Booty Lover]

Dimmable Bulbs
I've found with many LED bulbs that are dimmable, don't work well with some dimmer switches, especially the electronic and remote control switches. I have several expensive fixtures with electronic dimmers that I have to install 1 incandescent bulb to support 1 or more LED bulbs. I've understand the problem is based upon how the dimmer works. Some lower voltage but leave the sine wave intact. Others modify the duty cycle of the sine wave which some dimmable LED bulbs don't like.

lifespan
I've yet to own a CFL bulb that came even close to it's rated life span. I know turning them on and off greatly reduces their life, but many I've owned were barely 1.5X incandescent bulbs.

buzzing
Yes, I have several 3-way LED bulbs that buzz. All are Philips bulbs. All the ones that I have problems with dimmers are also Philips. I guess I should stop buying Philips bulbs.

Ya I'm not a fan of the Philips LED's I find the GE ones better specially for dimming. thought the Lummus ones I just picked up from Costco work well. No buzzing and dimming is very responsive with my Insteon dimmable switches.

 

[GameBoy27]

And also life. Also the truth is that first generation led bulbs will last 45.000 to 50,000 hrs 24/7 by Energy Star only approve them for 25,000 hrs. But this is all because of the crap coming out of China.
The most important factor in the quality of an Led bulb is the chip. There are probably only three world wide quality manufactures of these chips and the two top products are Japanese made.

Which is why LED strip lighting (the ones you mount under cupboards for example) don't last more than a couple years. "Made in China" is not synonymous with quality.

 

[KBear]

You are right but power consumption also plays a big part in the switch. More power requires more energy. More energy requires more fuel. With car manufactures focusing on better fuel consumption they try to squeeze what they can. that is also why many are going with electronic power steering rather then hydraulic. which can give them usually an extra .5 HP from the motor because of less energy needed for EPS.

Titalian you also made my other point about lifespan.

Lower power consumption is a nice bonus, but doubt it is the "big part" for the switch to LED lights, as the fuel ratings would be measured during the day.

LED lights are small chips that lend themselves to automation. In switching to LED lights you get rid of the bulky light bulb, light bulb socket, and the person needed to assemble them to the board. You also don't need to consider in the design the replacement of the bulbs as they would last the life of the car. Thinking of dashboard lights, but would apply to other lights in the car.

LED lights also light faster, and are trendy.