Life in suburbia costs more than you'd think
- Thread starter canada-man
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I agree with the people who say that downtown is probably not a great place to raise a family. In some ways that's too bad--I think it's a self-fulfilling prophesy. Developers convince the city planning department that only single people buy condos and use that as an excuse not to build schools and parks, and to build units with layouts that aren't well suited to a family with children. The people looking for a place to live then say, gee I don't want to live downtown, there's no school for my kid and no park to play in. It's self defeating and cheapens the city.
It is true NOW, but it doesn't have to be--there ARE a few places downtown where you can reasonably raise a family, but they're few. The south side of Queens Quay is one such place--it's zoned such that you can send your kids to school at the Toronto Island School, which is one of the best in the city--and they're safe, in a giant park all day with fresher air than the burbs and lots of big open spaces. However most places in downtown don't offer anything like that and I'd agree for the most part it's not a great place to raise a family.
All that said downtown is a great place to live if you DON'T have kids, and you save a hell of a lot of money living here, assuming you also work here.
I live close enough to where I work that I can walk there in 20-25min. I don't own a car, don't pay for parking, I don't even pay for a TTC monthly pass. That's hundreds of dollars, maybe even $1000/month that I was able to plow into my mortage, enabling me to afford a more expensive place than I could have bought in the burbs, and have it paid off years sooner.
I rent cars when I need them, but even that's a freedom--quite often when I leave the city it's by airplane, and I rent the car at my destination.
It is true NOW, but it doesn't have to be--there ARE a few places downtown where you can reasonably raise a family, but they're few. The south side of Queens Quay is one such place--it's zoned such that you can send your kids to school at the Toronto Island School, which is one of the best in the city--and they're safe, in a giant park all day with fresher air than the burbs and lots of big open spaces. However most places in downtown don't offer anything like that and I'd agree for the most part it's not a great place to raise a family.
All that said downtown is a great place to live if you DON'T have kids, and you save a hell of a lot of money living here, assuming you also work here.
I live close enough to where I work that I can walk there in 20-25min. I don't own a car, don't pay for parking, I don't even pay for a TTC monthly pass. That's hundreds of dollars, maybe even $1000/month that I was able to plow into my mortage, enabling me to afford a more expensive place than I could have bought in the burbs, and have it paid off years sooner.
I rent cars when I need them, but even that's a freedom--quite often when I leave the city it's by airplane, and I rent the car at my destination.
You should have warned me about the negative history of the term "porch xxxxxx".As a porch "censured" I find both your use of the outdated term porch people deeply offensive.
Yup, I live in the City and I can get almost everywhere (except CB) by walking, biking or taking the TTC. My pet peeve is that there are too many damn "porch people" and "patio people".
BTW: The City has passed a bylaw to restrict the number of cars one can park in their driveway. Wish they would pass a similar bylaw limiting the number of people who are allowed to sit or sleep on porches.
I don't understand why this annoys you. If you live in the city, should you not accept that you will be around many other people?
I thought everyone has seen the porch monkey scene from Clerks 2. It is on the youtube.You should have warned me about the negative history of the term "porch xxxxxx".
Those of you who think downtown is so superior obviously have never been to Leslieville, ugly houses built in the 1920's squished together like sardines. Inside are stairwells so tiny that even cute bald would have trouble going up, not to mention the ugly flooring and rooms. Let's not even start with neighbourhoods that would give Scarborough a run in terms of shady characters.
*groan*
I'm a bit of a downtown snob myself but I wouldn't pretend to tell those who like the quiet of the burbs not to live where and how they want to. Downtown works really well for me an my family, there are trade-offs but overall it's what I prefer. I lived in the 'burbs for my first 11 years and since then have been a downtowner.
I did hear recently that city dwellers have on average 1/3 of the ecological footprint of people in the suburbs. Nice to hear, but not why I made the decision to live where I do. I just think it's better overall.
Live where you want Major Major!
I'm a bit of a downtown snob myself but I wouldn't pretend to tell those who like the quiet of the burbs not to live where and how they want to. Downtown works really well for me an my family, there are trade-offs but overall it's what I prefer. I lived in the 'burbs for my first 11 years and since then have been a downtowner.
I did hear recently that city dwellers have on average 1/3 of the ecological footprint of people in the suburbs. Nice to hear, but not why I made the decision to live where I do. I just think it's better overall.
Live where you want Major Major!
I call bullshit.
I have at least 2 times the house for half the money in a suburb of Toronto. Plus, when I want to go somewhere (skiing, golf, the airport) I am not trapped by gridlock or the ever-present construction, protests, walk-wank-or-crawl-for-whatever-athon. There are lots of great restaurants where I am and they are not chains.
The air is clean. I no longer have crack-heads going through my garbage. I don't have to step over them on my way to work. No subway - that alone is worth thousands to me a year. I do not relish those July commutes from Yonge and whatever with 30 plus humidity and some crankhead hanging over me smelling of BO, booze and urine.
There is no dogshit wrecking my local park or the militant dog owners thinking they have a right to have Fido shit anywhere. That dog-militancy nihilism does not happen in suburbia. You raise kids and you keep fucking Fido away from the kids who are not yours. Common courtesy.
Most of the affordable neighbourhoods are terrible with postage stamp lots, huge contingent costs because these are old homes and real estate agents who have no interest in protecting you from buying a money-pit. The other option is the shoebox looking over the Gardiner - awwww No thanks.
Of course the author of that report wants it to seem great - who's behind it? This is the Star of course.
I own a home that has plenty of room, isn't cheek to jowl with neighbours and is close to everything I need. I have to come into the GTArsehole at least one day a week. I just shake my head. My buddy who owns a house in the annex is struggling to make mortgage payments, pays thousands of dollars a year to keep the ol money pit liveable and has all of his equity riding on the concept that he will cash out big when he sells. Meanwhile the demographic isn't there to sustain these prices. I cashed out. Bye Bye.
I actually know my neigbours.
You can have it. My house is paid for.
Oh and by the way, we all have our preferences, and if I seemed a bit strident no offence meant and I hope not taken. Cheers.
I have at least 2 times the house for half the money in a suburb of Toronto. Plus, when I want to go somewhere (skiing, golf, the airport) I am not trapped by gridlock or the ever-present construction, protests, walk-wank-or-crawl-for-whatever-athon. There are lots of great restaurants where I am and they are not chains.
The air is clean. I no longer have crack-heads going through my garbage. I don't have to step over them on my way to work. No subway - that alone is worth thousands to me a year. I do not relish those July commutes from Yonge and whatever with 30 plus humidity and some crankhead hanging over me smelling of BO, booze and urine.
There is no dogshit wrecking my local park or the militant dog owners thinking they have a right to have Fido shit anywhere. That dog-militancy nihilism does not happen in suburbia. You raise kids and you keep fucking Fido away from the kids who are not yours. Common courtesy.
Most of the affordable neighbourhoods are terrible with postage stamp lots, huge contingent costs because these are old homes and real estate agents who have no interest in protecting you from buying a money-pit. The other option is the shoebox looking over the Gardiner - awwww No thanks.
Of course the author of that report wants it to seem great - who's behind it? This is the Star of course.
I own a home that has plenty of room, isn't cheek to jowl with neighbours and is close to everything I need. I have to come into the GTArsehole at least one day a week. I just shake my head. My buddy who owns a house in the annex is struggling to make mortgage payments, pays thousands of dollars a year to keep the ol money pit liveable and has all of his equity riding on the concept that he will cash out big when he sells. Meanwhile the demographic isn't there to sustain these prices. I cashed out. Bye Bye.
I actually know my neigbours.
You can have it. My house is paid for.
Oh and by the way, we all have our preferences, and if I seemed a bit strident no offence meant and I hope not taken. Cheers.
Short term I won't predict, not even mid term, but long term Toronto is the fastest growing major city in the country, outpacing all others by miles owing to 40% of Canada's immigrants into the entire country settling in this one city. If the current trends continue the GTA will eventually hit 15 million.Meanwhile the demographic isn't there to sustain these prices.
In the long run, with growth like that, there is no way property values in Toronto will decline.
In the short and mid term (next 10 years) who really knows, predicting interest rates, etc., is a mugs game.
Exactly Fuji, I agree it's a mugs game. But, I don't want to gamble with equity once it is earned and not highly leveraged. I was in real estate in TO in the mid 80s and mid 90s - so it ain't all gravy. One word: Pain.
I just call bullshit on the idea that suburbia costs more. There are a lot of built-in assumptions there re commuting. With the ability to practice your trade remotely, commuting is not necessary anymore. I still consider myself a resident of the "outer GTA", but I can tell you that my expenses are down by at least 1/2 since leaving Toronto proper, my house is twice the size and, more importantly, nice, and my mortgage payments are half.
Just food for thought.
I just call bullshit on the idea that suburbia costs more. There are a lot of built-in assumptions there re commuting. With the ability to practice your trade remotely, commuting is not necessary anymore. I still consider myself a resident of the "outer GTA", but I can tell you that my expenses are down by at least 1/2 since leaving Toronto proper, my house is twice the size and, more importantly, nice, and my mortgage payments are half.
Just food for thought.
Are you talking about Parkdale? My boss and and his brother were born and raised in Parkdale and what they learned about human nature there has made them much better human beings and businessmen.Let's not even start with neighbourhoods that would give Scarborough a run in terms of shady characters.
