Liberal, Conservative, all are the same

[dreamblade]

I'm starting to get tired of the Conservative-praising and Liberal-bashing going on, when no party is exempt from being idiots.

These are not hockey teams, people! You need to stop rooting for one just because of where on the spectrum you identify yourself.

I'd like to think posters on this board would be capable of opening their minds and taking things in historical and complete context.

The Conservatives are not saints:

The Judge who overruled the grounding of a daughter by her father was appointed by a CONSERVATIVE

Also Mulroney, through his ass-kissing of the US, forced NAFTA through, causing rampant job loss as companies moved their operation south (80% of trade with the US was already free). His corruption and toadyism became so transparent, that only 2 conservatives survived the subsequent election: Jean Charest and Elsie Wayne.

Today, Conservatives have been given another chance, after it took 14 years to rebuild their party. And it's as a minority government.

Right now, a Conservative-run push to impose new copyright laws that are anti-innovation, anti-consumer, and pro-lobbyist, and the technological community is fighting against it. Jim Prentice has been caught lying on national radio about it.


No, the Liberals are no better. There was the sponsorship scandal, toadyism, and bone-headed ideas during their reign too. I just won't go into detail about those, because there just doesn't seem to be that much blatant bias their way on this board.

In the past, I've voted Conservative, Liberal, NDP, and Independant, based on an informed decision about the mp of my riding, not because I better root for the "team". I'm Libertarian Centrist, if you really want to pigeon-hole me.

My point is no matter what their title, they are politicians. Very few today have strong leanings one way or another, and fewer have a backbone worth speaking of.

Just hope I can pull blinders off.

 

[Tangwhich]

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I wish people would focus more on the issues at hand at any given time rather than blindly follow one party, regardless of what's going on.

 

[red]

Mulroney won an election over Free Trade. And he kept his promise about the GST. These are milestones.

what promise did he make on GST?


He won the election though 57% voted against him.

 

[antaeus]

...In the past, I've voted Conservative, Liberal, NDP, and Independant, based on an informed decision about the mp of my riding, not because I better root for the "team". ....

I agree, me too. The only way nowadays to vote and keep some self respect is to vote based on your local candidate only. In the last federal election in my riding this was the NDP candidate; really smart, answered questions intelligently spouting both party policy (he knew it, L, C and Green candidates didn't even know their own policy), his interpretation of it and what he saw as his personal role in acting on it if elected.

I find the politics of negativism to be proof of intellectual bankruptcy. All parties seem to devote 100% of their time denouncing the other's, using gross histrionic allegations. I keep thinking: when will the politician come along whose stance is complete ignorance of the other parties, treat them as if they didn't exist, only talk like my last failed NDP candidate.

 

[sybarites]

He brought in the GST.

 

[Keebler Elf]

This is why I vote for whoever I feel like at the time of any given election. People who blindly vote Conservative or Liberal are just sheep.

Think about it. What does it say about someone who won't take into consideration the pros and cons of any given subject but instead decide beforehand who they're going to vote for before they even hear the positions. Pretty stupid.

No wonder the general public is increasingly disinterested in politics.

 

[dreamblade]

I find the politics of negativism to be proof of intellectual bankruptcy.

I think that, sir, is a quote for the ages.

Too bad your NDP candidate lost, though it was most likely BECAUSE of their intelligent answers.

 

[train]

Guys

I thought the whole point of the Politics and International Affairs section to this board was to confine this type of discussion there.

 

[red]

It was on the platform. The GST was to cure our FST woes that made our exports uncompetitive and introduce a consumption flow-thru tax..

Ok now I understand. I thought you meant his promise that it would be revenue neutral or something like that.

Now don't start with this popular vote thing again.

Even the people of Ontario rejected proportional representation.

Mulroney won fair and square in our system.

Yes he did win under the rules. I just object to the he won the election on free trade- which implies that it was supported by a majority which it wasn't.
BTW: I don't support proportional rep and I voted for him during that election

 

[someone]

Ok now I understand. I thought you meant his promise that it would be revenue neutral or something like that.

After time as the economy chances, no tax change can be revenue neutral forever. However, when the GST was introduced it actually bought in less revenue than expected. So I’m not sure if you're complaining about the fact that they GST rate was set too low to be revenue neutral when it was first introduced or if your complaining that 20 years later, it now brings in much more than the manufacturing sales tax would have thanks to the service sector growing faster than the manufacturing sector.

Yes he did win under the rules. I just object to the he won the election on free trade- which implies that it was supported by a majority which it wasn't.
BTW: I don't support proportional rep and I voted for him during that election

I guess you must have been really upset that Chrétien won his majorities with even less of the popular vote.

If you study economics, free trade is the way to go because countries benefit from comparative advantage. Without NAFTA, the US, our biggest trading partner, could impose all kinds of tariffs on our goods to protect THEIR industries and hurt ours. Some job loss or re-distribution is inevitable towards a more rational labour force geared to what we do best.

A consumption tax is better than an income tax. Also, the GST makes our exports more attractive since it doesn't become a hidden cost of the good like the old FST did.

Mulroney won an election over Free Trade. And he kept his promise about the GST. These are milestones.

Absolutely right.

 

[dreamblade]

Guys

I thought the whole point of the Politics and International Affairs section to this board was to confine this type of discussion there.

You're absolutely right. My original rant was about how current social affairs, which appear in this section, tend to be (often wronfully) blamed on which party is responsible. But it IS turning into a political debate, for which, I apologise.

 

[red]

I guess you must have been really upset that Chrétien won his majorities with even less of the popular vote.

.

no- i don't object to the fact that Mulroney won (as I indicated I voted for him), but I do object to the theory, used by all political parties, that winning a majority is an indication that the majority agrees with their platform.

 

[OddSox]

no- i don't object to the fact that Mulroney won (as I indicated I voted for him), but I do object to the theory, used by all political parties, that winning a majority is an indication that the majority agrees with their platform.

Yet a bigger minority voted for his platform than for anyone else's...

 

[basketcase]

As a borderline voter, the thing that will likely make my decision is the endless months of Conservative attack adds we've had to endure even though there is no election in the near future. At least if they are smart, they will not go back to accusing the Liberals of not being accountable.

 

[Never Compromised]

Your tax dollars at work.

Factually incorrect. The attack ads are paid for by the Conservative Party, not via the government.

 

[thompo69]

Factually incorrect. The attack ads are paid for by the Conservative Party, not via the government.

Yes. And all registered political parties receive significant allowances from the public purse. It went part and parcel with the limitations on personal and corporate political donations.

 

[basketcase]

Either way, they're frickin annoying.