lethal injection fails

[Ironhead]

Actually you are wrong. There are many people who survive a gunshot wound to the head. There are people who stuck a gun in their mouth and pulled the trigger, but missed the spinal column--they end up with a hole in their neck, but not dead. There are people who are shot in the side of the head, but the bullet just cracks the skull and deflects. They end up with a brain injury, but not dead.

Bullets are spectacularly ineffective. They are good at killing people, sure, but in most cases the victim dies of blood loss, not an instant, painless death.

A well oiled guillotine is likely the quickest and most humane way, but it is a gruesome sight to see the head rolling into a bucket. On the other hand you can stick the bloody head up on a spike in the town square afterwards--hey, if you're going to engage in savage behavior why hide it?

First all I said was "bullets from a gun". I did not mention the head.
Second I said bullets not bullet.

If the shooter used a .45 or a 9mil double tap to the heart the job would get done to satisfation.

 

[gramage]

Actually it is probably the least painful:
3 drugs are used, injected in this order:

1) Sodium thiopental: an anesthetic agent...the person is rendered unconscious
2) Pancuronium: paralyzes the muscles including those requried for respiration..diaphragm and accessory muscles therefore is asphyxiated
3) Potassium chloride: Stops the heart thereby dieing due to cardiac arrest.

Realize for injections 2 and 3 he is unconscious...has no idea whats going on and feels no pain.

Except for the 21 autopsy's of inmates that show that they did.

A little state murder history:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTmd2f8zZQY

 

[NYguardianangel]

Double Jeopardy Laws

Not being an asshole here... but the USA has a Double Jeopardy Law which means and individual can not be charged for the same offense... Now I know this isn't an offense, but here me out.

Back in the 1940's there was an execution in TX what went bad, the individual was to be electrocuted, the switch was pulled, but no power (current) was sent to the individual in the chair. The Executioner went to open and re-close the switch, and was stopped by the Defendants lawyer... under the Double Jeopardy Law; he was Judged, for the crime, and the sentence was carried out, therefore by and "act of God" he was released, and could not go through a retrial based on the completion of the original sentence....

Would this not be the case here....???? there might be a legal loophole for this asshole !!!

 

[tboy]

Not being an asshole here... but the USA has a Double Jeopardy Law which means and individual can not be charged for the same offense... Now I know this isn't an offense, but here me out.

Back in the 1940's there was an execution in TX what went bad, the individual was to be electrocuted, the switch was pulled, but no power (current) was sent to the individual in the chair. The Executioner went to open and re-close the switch, and was stopped by the Defendants lawyer... under the Double Jeopardy Law; he was Judged, for the crime, and the sentence was carried out, therefore by and "act of God" he was released, and could not go through a retrial based on the completion of the original sentence....

Would this not be the case here....???? there might be a legal loophole for this asshole !!!

But the sentence was NOT carried out. If the sentence is death by lethal injection the convict would have to actually die in order for the sentence to be carried out.

The double jeopardy clause refers to trial only, not charged. For eg: the police arrest a person for the crime of assault. The district attorny tells the cops to release him due to lack of evidence. The police investigate and find a video tape showing the attacker. They arrest him and try him and convict him.

 

[SweetSerenity]

I don't believe so. The sentence would be 'death by lethal injection' not 'to be given lethal injection, and we can hope that works out'.
Just as in the other case, the man should have been fried. The sentence was 'bound to the chair and electrocuted until dead'. The lawyer had no real right to halt the procedings, as the sentence had not been carried out. Unfortunately the legal systems are screwed up. I believe if a person has comitted a crime, then they should be punished. No legal technicalities should stand in the way of that.

 

[themexi]

Actually you are wrong. There are many people who survive a gunshot wound to the head. There are people who stuck a gun in their mouth and pulled the trigger, but missed the spinal column--they end up with a hole in their neck, but not dead. There are people who are shot in the side of the head, but the bullet just cracks the skull and deflects. They end up with a brain injury, but not dead.

Bullets are spectacularly ineffective. They are good at killing people, sure, but in most cases the victim dies of blood loss, not an instant, painless death.

A well oiled guillotine is likely the quickest and most humane way, but it is a gruesome sight to see the head rolling into a bucket. On the other hand you can stick the bloody head up on a spike in the town square afterwards--hey, if you're going to engage in savage behavior why hide it?

I think it's safe to say that gunshots to the head, while not 100% effective in all cases, are still pretty much Overwhelmingly effective. If you remove factors like lack of training, distance, etc the percentage gets even closer to 100% If you put the fuckers head in a vice so he can't move around & give a 50cal to a well trained marksman I'm very confident that it will be a rare case indeed that a killshot isn't made 100%

Or you can use a rifle... the chinese use them & from what I've seen of the pictures & footage by the looks of the almost headless convicts lying still on the ground I'll wager its a pretty safe method.

If youre looking for less blood & gore then strap them to a wooden wall facing the witnesses... have a hole with a guiding reinforcement leading to the back of the neck between the base of the skull & the 1st cervical vertebrae.... Place a chisel over the spot & hit it with a mallet.... Game. Over.

Hell instead of a guillotine put them in a car crusher type device that slams a 10x10ft foot thick plate of iron down on them in a fraction of a second.... Instant, painless death is guaranteed....


My point is that executing a secured criminal is EASY.... Any organization with the $ & power of a government should hang their heads, maybe hang themselves, in shame when they fuck something so simple up.....

 

[Ironhead]

If it is a head-shot you want then shoot the convict in the eye or the temple.

 

[ChaosTheory]

Except for the 21 autopsy's of inmates that show that they did.

A little state murder history:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTmd2f8zZQY

Thank you very much gramage for the info. I did now know that!
Penn & Teller are great.

I looked up the paper...ya..i'm one of those research guys...and was quite surprised...Here are the abstracts:

The Lancet, Volume 365, Issue 9468, Pages 1412 - 1414, 16 April 2005
Inadequate anaesthesia in lethal injection for execution

Dr Leonidas G Koniaris MD a , Teresa A Zimmers PhD a, David A Lubarsky MD b c, Jonathan P Sheldon MD d
Summary

Anaesthesia during lethal injection is essential to minimise suffering and to maintain public acceptance of the practice. Lethal injection is usually done by sequential administration of thiopental, pancuronium, and potassium chloride. Protocol information from Texas and Virginia showed that executioners had no anaesthesia training, drugs were administered remotely with no monitoring for anaesthesia, data were not recorded and no peer-review was done. Toxicology reports from Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina showed that post-mortem concentrations of thiopental in the blood were lower than that required for surgery in 43 of 49 executed inmates (88%); 21 (43%) inmates had concentrations consistent with awareness. Methods of lethal injection anaesthesia are flawed and some inmates might experience awareness and suffering during execution.

and a study done in 2007 showed:

Lethal Injection for Execution: Chemical Asphyxiation?
Zimmers T.A et al., PLoS Med. 2007 April; 4(4): e156.

Background
Lethal injection for execution was conceived as a comparatively humane alternative to electrocution or cyanide gas. The current protocols are based on one improvised by a medical examiner and an anesthesiologist in Oklahoma and are practiced on an ad hoc basis at the discretion of prison personnel. Each drug used, the ultrashort-acting barbiturate thiopental, the neuromuscular blocker pancuronium bromide, and the electrolyte potassium chloride, was expected to be lethal alone, while the combination was intended to produce anesthesia then death due to respiratory and cardiac arrest. We sought to determine whether the current drug regimen results in death in the manner intended.
Methods and Findings
We analyzed data from two US states that release information on executions, North Carolina and California, as well as the published clinical, laboratory, and veterinary animal experience. Execution outcomes from North Carolina and California together with interspecies dosage scaling of thiopental effects suggest that in the current practice of lethal injection, thiopental might not be fatal and might be insufficient to induce surgical anesthesia for the duration of the execution. Furthermore, evidence from North Carolina, California, and Virginia indicates that potassium chloride in lethal injection does not reliably induce cardiac arrest.
Conclusions
We were able to analyze only a limited number of executions. However, our findings suggest that current lethal injection protocols may not reliably effect death through the mechanisms intended, indicating a failure of design and implementation. If thiopental and potassium chloride fail to cause anesthesia and cardiac arrest, potentially aware inmates could die through pancuronium-induced asphyxiation. Thus the conventional view of lethal injection leading to an invariably peaceful and painless death is questionable.

Yikes. i bet that sucked

just push enough anesthetic and that should do it.

 

[pc0mo]

its kinda messed up they have a death penalty and cant kill people.

that pen and teller thing on the doses just makes you wonder. if the drugs dont cost alot why not just 3x or 4x the dosage to kill a person. i mean just knock them out with laughing gas or something then inject directly in the heart. 30 secs later second doseage just to make sure and bam .

one dead convict.

 

[themexi]

Hell all they have to do is administer the anesthetic in a massive dose & when he's out just pronounce him dead & quickly bury the fucker in the prison yard.

 

[gramage]

that pen and teller thing on the doses just makes you wonder. if the drugs dont cost alot why not just 3x or 4x the dosage to kill a person..

Because as was said in the video the point of lethal injection is to make it easier on the person doing the killing, not to be more humane to the person being killed.

 

[The Oracle]

The idea is to end the perpetrators life as non violently as possible. To do otherwise would be bringing ourselves down to the social level of these murderers and I for one do not wish to be associated with these depraved individuals.

 

[Armagettin]

It is not uncommon for someone trained in venipuncture to have difficulty finding a good vein. Sometimes a vein will be hard to find for several reasons or might collapse when trying to puncture etc.

Apparently, according to a radio talk show announcer, the guy had collapsed veins from being a druggie. Have not heard it confirmed.

 

[jiiimmm]

The idea is to end the perpetrators life as non violently as possible. To do otherwise would be bringing ourselves down to the social level of these murderers and I for one do not wish to be associated with these depraved individuals.

With all due respect, I take issue with the " bringing ourselves down to...". Its is a very common sentiment that allows people to wash their hands of unpleasant jobs. But it is an ugly job that needs to be done and we all need to be aware of it and appreciate that someone is there to do it.

There have been some wrongly convicted people in the past. But there are plenty of slam dunk cases that wallow in the courts costing society millions. I feel the death sentance should reflect the crime to some capacity.

Bernardo and his bride should have been dispatched long ago, there was no question to their guilt. I for one would have no problem "bringing myself down to the level ot these murderers" to see justice done. Society would be better for it.

 

[WhaWhaWha]

What ever happened to a pistol shot to the head????


Really hard to fuck that up....

Ever see Fight Club?

 

[Big Rig]

The only argument I've heard for getting rid of the death penalty that made any sense to me was the fact that it cost tax payers more to put a criminal to death than it does to keep them in prison until they die of natural causes.

This is true

You have to give appeals and pay for their lawyers and the court's otherwise Innocent people die

Reason number 2

Innocent people will die regardless of appeals

Reason 3

It does not prevent crime which would be the best argument to do it, if it did

The number one reason to not have the death penalty

You have given the state the right to kill its own citizens. Bad idea !

 

[james t kirk]

I'm not a big believer in the death penalty, but to me, a life sentence should mean exactly that - a life sentence. No parole after 25 years, no feignt hope clause after 15, no day parole, no nothing. Just your cell till the day you die.

As far as executing goes.

The Guillotine is pretty much fool proof, quick and easy.

The Germans used to just rush into the holding cell, grab the guy, hustle him into the death chamber, then physically hold him down and pull the lever. (As opposed to the French who would take forever strapping the poor bastard to a stretcher like board.

 

[johnhenrygalt]

...yet the victim seems to be forgotten.

How does this constitute "foretting the victim"?

 

[jiiimmm]

How does this constitute "foretting the victim"?

All of the focus from the report was about the inmate's pain and suffering because they could not find a vien. At no time was the 13 year old child's pain and suffering ( rape and murder ) at the hands of this inmate ever brought up. At no point in the interview did the inmate's lawyer or the seasoned interviewer even mention the crime or the childs name. I view this as forgetting the victim.

 

[OddSox]

I have no basis for this, but would suspect that at least some of the cases where 'anesthetic was not administered properly' were simply a situation where the 'doctor' in charge felt that the 'recipient' actually deserved to suffer - just a little bit.

As I said, I could be wrong.