Legalizing Marijuana

[zog]

OK. This has been a really hot topic in the news and it's got me thinking.

I'm not a pot smoker and I don't have any real desire to become one. I tried it a few times in my university days (as many have) but I wasn't that impressed. That's just my opinion.

I've read a fair bit about marijuana and it's effects and it seems to me that there are valid arguments for equating this drug with others, like alcohol, which are legal and considered safe when used responsibly. So if they do legalize pot, I won't be too stressed out.

However, one of the most active arguments in this topic relate to the medicinal use of marijuana. Many people are (quite fiercely) advocating the legal use of pot to treat a number of medical conditions. Many seem to be quite zealous in this approach, even when they, themselves, don't have any condition that would warrant medicinal THC use.

I wonder if the medicinal argument is as sincere as it sounds. I wonder if those who support that use are, really, just trying to get a foot-in-ther-door for mainstream legal use.

For those who advocate medicinal marijuana, how excited would you be if they developed a pill that had all the medicinal effects you are calling for, but does not provide the "high" or "buzz' of pot use?

Just wondering...

Zog.

 

[wrong hole]

....sorry zog,

....i'm just a little high right now...

....could you repeat the question.....dude...

 

[train]

It is already legal for medicinal purposes . In typical government fashion the red tape involved in actually getting supplied is the problem ......yet it is pretty easy to get perscribed something like Percocet which is a much stronger narcotic (and much more addictive ).....go figure .

 

[TheNiteHwk]

Click below...

It is already legal for medicinal purposes . In typical government fashion the red tape involved in actually getting supplied is the problem ......yet it is pretty easy to get perscribed something like Percocet which is a much stronger narcotic (and much more addictive ).....go figure .

related article... (very funny)

http://www.torontostar.com/NASApp/c...geid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1058698926707

 

[groo39]

Personal experience

(Copied from my comments on an unrelated thread)

All government propaganda aside, medical marijuana was the number one prescribed treatement for migraines recommended by the AMA for over 80 years prior to prohibition. It was also commonly recommended for arthritis, digestive problems, etc.

I'd spent years dealing with my migraines -- diet changes, dozens of different prescribed meds, change of climate, etc. Nothing helped much, and none of the meds provided by modern science works more than half the time or in less than an hour (an eternity if you have an aura migraine happening.)

Nine months ago, a friend mentioned the AMA's history, and offered to smoke me up to see if it helped. Not only does it work within 5 minutes, it's also about 90% effective at stopping a migraine.

Since then, it's become a regular part of my treatment routine. I'm back up to working a productive 50-60 hours/week, instead of having to struggle to get in 20-30 because of days lost to migraines.

In fairness, I should mention that medical doses are far less than recreational would be. You don't need to feel a "buzz" to get medical effects, at least not for migraines.

Feel free to laugh at the stereotype stoners, just remember that there are a lot of MJ users out there who are responsible about their meds or entertainment. It's like codeine -- medical users take the 1-2 Tylenol 3's their doctor prescribes, recreational users take a handful to get a buzz. The abuse by the recreational users does not negate the medical effects for those who act responsibly.

Nor am I getting "down" on the recreational users. They're not hurting anyone except maybe themselves, same as a drunk. Let 'em have their fun as long as they're not putting anyone else at risk with their behavior.

 

[Troops]

I find smoking put just makes me lazy and puts me too sleep. So wheres the excitement? I'd rather drink and be hyper and be the life of the party than the guy that calls it a nite early cos he's too tired.

 

[train]

Re: Click below...

related article... (very funny)

http://www.torontostar.com/NASApp/c...geid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1058698926707

Haven't these guys ever heard of hash brownies ?....lol

 

[onthebottom]

As with many drugs

the criminal activity around the drug trade is more damaging than the drugs themselves. I think de-criminalizing is probably the right answer, instead of legalizing but liberalization is in order. Unfortunately that is not in the card down here but perhaps we can follow your lead.

OTB

 

[groo39]

http://www.smokedot.org/story/2003/6/17/224839/924

Had to go back a bit. Most of the questions I'd expect people to have are answered in this (very long) thread.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

It's already being done:

They are already even as we speak in some areas, coming up with, training & putting into effect road side tests to determine if a driver is 'high'. Not only on pot but for most other drugs as well. If you fail the road side test... you are maybe subject to a blood test. I am not sure.

There are many who advocate the legalizing of pot because it's the 'harmless' drug. I for one do not believe that. Pot IMO is just as addictive as tabacco, booze, gambling, etc. And so there will be some drawbacks and reprocusions. Seems to be OK with most that we reap tons of profit from the three aforemntioned. Therefore I for sure am all for legailzing for some of the same reasons already mentioned. Crime reduction. Revenue. The money they make I think though should go to social programs that are mandated to lesson and reduce problems caused or harm done from addictions in general.

 

[groo39]

There will always people who become too focused on one activity (addicted), and let it run their lives. Gambling, sex, alcohol, drugs, even work can be addictive (ask a "programming widow" how often they see their spouse during a delivery crunch.)

Most of those "addictions" are legal because they don't directly harm others, and most people just have fun without abusing/overdoing it.

I'm very much a firm believer that if your activities put no one else in harms way, they should not be illegal. Law should be for defending the majority from the idiocy of the few, not for enforcing morality of one's life choices.

 

[TravellingGuy]

For those who advocate medicinal marijuana, how excited would you be if they developed a pill that had all the medicinal effects you are calling for, but does not provide the "high" or "buzz' of pot use?

A pill form was already tried,for medicinal purpose, although the pill had the exact affects on the person as smoking it, most people still prefered the sensation of smoking, the inhaling etc. Myself I hate smoking, absolutely detest it, I'd jump at a pill form and I'd enjoy it more, save my lungs, but sadly its not available.

In my mind, they would need to come up with a comprehensive testing system or make it legal to draw blood against the wishes of the suspect to screen for THC before they could hope to "legalize" marijuana. This, of course, is why they are only "decriminalizing" it for now. I suspect those found using while driving could face much higher penalties in line with being caught drinking behind the wheel.

Part of the new proposed legislation also includes enhancing police detection abilities (apparently they can detect THC levels similar to Blood Alcohol) for roadside testing. The legislation clearly defines higher penalities for operating a vehicle under the influence. They also have taken into account the impact of the decriminalization on the Health Care system, a factor that most over look and some will get up in arms over, but our Health Care System will also need extra bucks to handle the flow, and similar to AA and existing drug addiction programs, system need to be put in place to offer marijuana users support and additiction control.

The government is taking this in baby steps and making sure to cover all the bases, things most people don't even think of. I'm sure they can't wait to get it into a LCBO-type store and collect the taxes on it.

What strikes me odd is the governments numbers on marijuana use in Canada,their esitimates seem too low, they say only 100,000 daily pot smokers in Canada.

 

[groo39]

For those who advocate medicinal marijuana, how excited would you be if they developed a pill that had all the medicinal effects you are calling for, but does not provide the "high" or "buzz' of pot use?

Well, for starters there is a pill form of THC called "Marinol". It is a gelcap containing extracted THC suspended in sesame oil, and IIRC available in 2, 5, and 10mg doses.

Some of the issues with Marinol:

- doesn't help people who are using MMJ for nausea, such as chemotherapy or AIDS patients. You'd have to able to keep the pill down for it to have effect, which would imply you didn't need to take it in the first place.

- street MJ runs about $1-5/dose, while Marinol runs something on the order of $15-20USD/pill IIRC.

- some medical effects are due to non-THC chemicals in natural MJ. Marinol only contains the THC.

- as with any pill, Marinol takes 30-60 minutes to have an effect. Inhaled MJ (smoked or vapourized) takes about 5 minutes. A world of difference if you're in pain.

- dosages are fixed, with no way to split them. If you have a 5mg prescription, you have no option to take half a dose if your symptoms aren't as bad as usual.

Despite the issues with Marinol, I'd love to be able to get the medical effects (at a reasonable price) without the side effects. I don't find the side-effect unpleasant, but they are significant enough to keep me from driving if I'm using MMJ for a migraine.

 

[TimeofYourLife]

I have never met a violent pot smoker but I sure have met a few violent drunks.....does this raise any questions?

 

[wrong hole]

yeah...

drink alcohol

then smoke pot so you can calm down....

 

[ohioguy]

I'm very much a firm believer that if your activities put no one else in harms way, they should not be illegal. Law should be for defending the majority from the idiocy of the few, not for enforcing morality of one's life choices.

Well said.

 

[zog]

Yeah...but...

I'm very much a firm believer that if your activities put no one else in harms way, they should not be illegal.

This is a valid point and I agree with it 100%.

However, it is sometimes difficult to assess whether others are affected, perhaps indirectly, by the personal stupidity of individuals.

Take the seatbelt or helmet laws. Why should the state care if I'm willing to endanger my life while driving or riding? I only hurt myself (which is my choice) so why have a law? Well, if I'm lucky and don't die, the state may have to pay for my medical care for the rest of my life. The state may also have to suport my family if I can no longer earn a living (dead or alive).

Many people perceive that anything legal is "permission from the state" to engage in that activity. By legalizing pot, it could be argued that many people will take it as permission (or even encouragement) to smoke up. These types of people are probably the least likely to use the substance responsibly and could harm themselves or others in the process.

Alcohol is legal and many people abuse it on a regular basis. More than likely, there would be an increase in pot-abuse if marijuana was made legal. Is that a reason not to do it? I don't really know.

Remember that we live in a democracy. That means that we are the government. We put people into power to administer our country but, if we really cared about our country, we would hold these people accountable for their behaviour. Ultimately, when the government legalizes something or bans something else, we are the ones who did it to ourselves; either by voting in favour of someone who promised to do so or for not voting against someone who wants to implement a decision we do not supoprt.

Therefore, if pot is ever made legal, we, the collective citizens of Canada (who all have the right to vote for our leadership) are the ones who made it happen (or allowed it to happen through our inaction). So if some crazy kid goes wild onlegalized pot and ends up hurting himself, we are the ones that made it happen. So you could say that we are, to a degree, responsible for not allowing others of us to hurt ourselves unecessarily.

Actually, I'm not against legalizing pot for medicinal use and I really don't care either way if it's available recreationally. I just don't know if it's worth the problems and hassles that will result.

It's an interesting topic to discuss and I am enjoying the discussions in this thread. On the other hand, I think that the government should find better uses for its time and our money.

Zog.

 

[groo39]

Re: Yeah...but...

Remember that we live in a democracy. That means that we are the government.

Now if we could just convince "King Jean" of that.

In all seriousness, you make good points, and there are no easy answers for them.

The example of the helmet laws are easily answered. The statistics on head injuries for motorcycle accidents should make it obvious to anyone that you need to wear a helmet. The law reminds the "idiot few" who are more concerned with wind blowing through their hair (or over their scalp).

But others like gambling, alcohol, or drugs also have the potential for financial impact, which means the abusers family can be affected. (Job loss due to poor attendance, etc.)

Yet you can't very well micro-manage how a family lives. It's unfortunate their are inadequate parents and spouses out there, and that children are sometimes abandoned or abused.

Where drugs, gambling, or alcohol contribute to making that situation worse, it's easy to blame the habit. But isn't the habit usually a symptom of other problems, rather than the cause of the problems? I've usually found that people who have such broken families also tend to have a lot of unemployment, low income, and low hope for the future. In those cases, I really think the abuse is more a symptom than a cause of the problems.

Hard, physically addictive drugs such as cocaine, heroin, or meth are another story. Those can trap people with a serious dependancy that has little correlation with their self esteem or outlook on the future. In other words, you see almost as many successful, happy people getting "hooked" by the addiction as you do underpriveleged escapees. It just takes them longer to drain the bank account and show the symptoms of the stereotype addict.

 

[SirLoin]

the herb

i gotta admit, i smoke a ton of pot. i also managed to graduate from university and maintain a full time job. i still smoke a ton of the herb - i manage to volunteer in my community and hold down an additional part time job along with my full time day job. i smoke before i play squash, before i go mountain biking, running, snowboarding, and everything else that i do. sure for some people they just hang out and pass out. i tend to me more motivated to do things and it helps me to clear my mind. i'm not saying that its helping me be better at things in life, but merely enhancing the experience. i just make sure that my life doesn't revolve around getting high, but rather incorporate it into my daily routine. in essence, what i'm saying is responsible pot use in my case is fun and beneficial. All hail the herb!

 

[CyberGoth]