Leafs - Flyers - Game Six

[Ranger68]

I miss the Douggie days, when they were underdogs playing on emotion with nothing but the desire to win. This years team has had too many lousy games, and that is why they are in this situation of having ceded home ice advantage with dispicable losses at home to teams such as Carolina, Chicago, and Florida.

They cannot score at will, they spend far too much time trying to dump and chase, or make a nice pass. If Tie Domi is your best player in the playoffs, or Nieuwendyk who has missed half the games then you got a serious problem. I'll take Calgary's heart or even Primeau's over the Leafs until they show that they have the guts.

We're back to this ridiculous notion - the guts of a team.



It's almost not worth arguing about, except it's such a stupid, tired, old cliche .......
I mean, on one hand you argue that Domi's their best player (don't agree, but he's playing well above his usual level), then you say that Nieuwendyk's hurt. Well, which is it? Lack of "heart" or injuries? Which do you think makes more sense?

I'll ask again - how good is this team without Nolan (and now Klee), with Sundin and Nieuwendyk, who by all accounts *wouldn't be playing if this were the regular season*, playing very hurt.

I think the Leafs are still capable of winning this series and moving on, but with Klee now added to the injured roster, I don't think it likely - scoring was already hard enough to come by, and now the defense is thinning.

 

[beaver cleaner]

Ranger I am a huge Leaf fan, but I am turned off after Sunday. There was no fight in the team. There was no killer instinct in game 6 against Ottawa, when they should have been out for blood. There was no fight against Philly last year.

Sundin is the most complete hockey player, and has proven himself to be among the elite in the NHL ever since the Olympics. But thats not what the playoffs are about. Watch Calgary, they don't quit. Down 4-0 in an elimination game against Vancouver they storm back.

Injuries are no excuse for not playing with heart, mailing in your efforts cuz the hometown fans booed you. If these guys don't put on a gutsy performance tonight and Thursday, then tear it down and rebuild.

 

[Ranger68]

Okay, beaver, I hear ya. They gave up on Sunday. Belfour has games like that, too - when the Leafs seem to be losing the will to try to comeback, he goes into sleep mode. I don't think it reflects on how well he, or the Leafs, will play tonight. As for killer instinct, they DID beat Ottawa, who I suppose was trying to beat them, so that must say *something*.

What are the playoffs about, beaver? Heart? Grit? Intensity? I agree. They're also about skill. In fact, they're more about skill than those things. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply - I've failed to understand this argument all my life - are you saying that the Leafs just don't want to win? That Calgary wanted to win more than Detroit? Doesn't it seem more likely that both teams were reasonably evenly matched, all factors being considered (energy, skill, goaltending, coaching), and that Calgary won because they got a good bounce in overtime and converted - not because Calgary "wanted it more"?

Just because a team loses, even badly, doesn't mean it didn't *try* to win.

The Leafs won't be blown apart, so don't hold your breath. Quinn may go, some of the older statesmen will go - they'll do what they always do - a trickly of youngsters injected into a pool of established players acquired by trade and free agency.

 

[beaver cleaner]

The regular season is about skill. The playoffs are about will. When you are talking about the professional level the difference in skill of the playoff teams is marginal. It isn't just a matter of who wants it more, because obviously both teams want it, it is a question of what are you going to do to get it. The Leafs and Detroit choose to rely on their skill, not on hard work, so when the going gets tough they are at a daisadvantage, and it shows.

 

[Ranger68]

Well, we agree to disagree. I think the playoffs are as much about skill as the regular season. The best predictor of playoff success is regular season success. That is, if you bet who'll win series based upon who finished higher during the regular season, you'll make money. If you bet based upon anything else - "heart" or "grit", for instance, however that's quantified - you'll lose in the long run.

Did this lack of "hard work" show when Detroit was winning their Cups? Did it show when Toronto was beating Ottawa, or in the games they were beating Philadelphia? Did it suddenly vanish?

I couldn't disagree more with this notion of "grit" or "character" becoming all-important in the playoffs. I'll tell you something - whoever wins almost always has this "grit" associated with them, even if it's only a few players. It's a circular argument. You need heart to win, and if you win you obviously had heart.

The playoffs are about all the same things that the regular season is about. The differences in skill levels between teams aren't as drastic as you see during the regular season, that's true - I'd argue that, for the most part, they aren't "marginal", but occasionally may be. But to conclude from that fact that other factors become more important doesn't seem to me to be making an argument so much as just making assumptions.

 

[beaver cleaner]

When you play every other night for 2 months it takes grit and determination. You are tired, you are hurt, it is easy to give reasons why you aren't playing at your best.

A championship team is the one that gets through that. They have their eyes on the prize, and will do anything to get there.

Just to point out a difference between this Leaf team and the Douggie years: When did you last see someone dive in front of a shot?

I hope they pull it together starting tonight, they are good enough to beat Philly, and definately good enough to beat Tampa, but the game is played to determine the winner, and so you need to show up and bring all you have.

 

[scubadoo]

When you play every other night for 2 months it takes grit and determination. You are tired, you are hurt, it is easy to give reasons why you aren't playing at your best.

A championship team is the one that gets through that. They have their eyes on the prize, and will do anything to get there.

Just to point out a difference between this Leaf team and the Douggie years: When did you last see someone dive in front of a shot?

I hope they pull it together starting tonight, they are good enough to beat Philly, and definately good enough to beat Tampa, but the game is played to determine the winner, and so you need to show up and bring all you have.

Wayne Gretzky said back in 1983 when the Oilers lost to the Islanders he wanted to peek into the Islanders dressing room after the game to see the celebration. He said what he actually saw were a bunch of players who were bloody, banged up and quiet. He says that it was at that point that he realized that the Oilers didn't pay the price to win.

Given this little bit of insight, I must admit that the Calgary Flames are looking very impressive in my book. Let us welcome the Cup back to Canada by the Flames!

 

[n_v]

Let us welcome the Cup back to Canada by the Flames!

Are you that confident of that happening?

 

[scubadoo]

Are you that confident of that happening?

I wouldn't have said it if I didn't believe it will happen

 

[n_v]

scubadoo - Although I like what Calgary is doing I am still hoping that the Sens bring it to Canada beofre any other Cnadian team. Kinda poetic I think, you know Ottawa being the capital of Canada and all.

 

[Ranger68]

The Leafs played hard last night, and lost by the narrowest margin possible.
I guess this displays a "lack of grit" - nothing to do with the two two-on-ones - Leetch didn't have enough heart to break up the last one.

The Leafs outplayed and beat the Sens fair and square, then had the same thing done to them by the Flyers.
They finished third or fourth in the East in the playoffs - where they finished during the regular season.
No need for too much disappointment - they gave it a good run - that's sports.
I would have liked to see Domi score in the OT and watch Game Seven, but I'll root for the Flames now to bring the Cup back where it belongs - note, Eugene Melnyk, NOT Ottawa.

 

[Goober Mcfly]

The Leafs outplayed and beat the Sens fair and square

It's pathetic that you feel you need to re-state that every freaking post. Cripes.

I thought that Toronto had the Flyers on their heels for the second, third and overtime periods.

 

[Ranger68]

Every post? Not nearly.
But, now that you mention it, I think it's pathetic that you need to point it out every time I do.

Sens lost. Again. Get over it.

 

[Back Burner]

LMAO ...still don't get it do you? The Leafs won fair and square but the Sens OUTPLAYED the Leafs, if it wasn't for Eddie, the Leafs would have been golfing last week.

Word!!!

 

[Ranger68]

Eddie's a Leaf, Cnd-Guy, and factors in to how well "the team" plays. I love these guys who maintain that the goaltender "steals" a game when he plays well - like, a starting pitcher in baseball "steals" one by shutting out the other team. Classic idiocy. Sorry, guys - my hockey includes goaltending. LOL

Please see my thread "Outplaying vs. Winning".

Never mind. It's obvious you don't understand the english language - and have a Leaf-bashing agenda, to boot.

 

[Ranger68]

Hey, Sens fans / Leaf-bashers:

THE LEAFS OUTPLAYED THE SENS!

This concludes the lesson for today.

 

[n_v]

Cdn-Guy - You are wasting your breath, or this case fingers, on the guy. Let him be in his own dream world. And his notion that the Buds played hard last night just show his lack of understanding of the game. It wasn't until midway thru the 3rd that the Leafs started playing. It was an absolute snoozefest what they showed before that (words of Leafs fan friends of mine). They needed a kick in the ass to get going so yes in fact they didn't show too much effort, until it was too late. You don't win too many games playing 15 min, 20 max, of hockey in a 68 minute game!

 

[Ranger68]

It's okay n_v. Look on the bright side - you may not have to play us next year.

LOL

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Typing it in 40 point bold letters doesn't make it any more true...

 

[Ranger68]

Oh, sorry - I just borrowed that from one of *your* posts, Goober.

You're right, it doesn't.
It's true no matter what font I type it in.