LCBO strike

[JohnLarue]

I will not be crossing their picket line in the event of a strike.

The anti-union rhetoric of some posters shows a remarkable ignorance of the hard won rights won by the courage of our forefathers.

Some pro-union posters show a remarkable ignorance of how the global economy as changed and how outdated economic models ($72 / hr all in cost for unskilled labor) no longer work & threaten the viability of their employer and thier own organization

Our forefathers also won the battles against the communists and the fascists, while those battles were very important, they are not relevant in this day and age.
The fight against terrorists & religious fanatics is now relevant, however will require different approaches, resources and tactics than our forefathers used.

Similarly,unions served their purpose in the early 19th century to keep employers honest and eliminate abuse of employees. For that we must all be grateful.

However the pendulum has swung far too much the other way with union inflexibility threatening their own survival (GM case in point).

Time to wake up and move into the 21 century

 

[Cycleguy007]

Some pro-union posters show a remarkable ignorance of how the global economy as changed and how outdated economic models ($72 / hr all in cost for unskilled labor) no longer work & threaten the viability of their employer and thier own organization

Our forefathers also won the battles against the communists and the fascists, while those battles were very important, they are not relevant in this day and age.
The fight against terrorists & religious fanatics is now relevant, however will require different approaches, resources and tactics than our forefathers used.

Similarly,unions served their purpose in the early 19th century to keep employers honest and eliminate abuse of employees. For that we must all be grateful.

However the pendulum has swung far too much the other way with union inflexibility threatening their own survival (GM case in point).

Time to wake up and move into the 21 century

Well said Johnny!

Oh and Mac, the reason there is such a price differential when comparing USA prices to Canada's is more due to much higher hidden taxes in Canada.

 

[rosemount36]

Some pro-union posters show a remarkable ignorance of how the global economy as changed and how outdated economic models ($72 / hr all in cost for unskilled labor) no longer work & threaten the viability of their employer and thier own organization

Our forefathers also won the battles against the communists and the fascists, while those battles were very important, they are not relevant in this day and age.
The fight against terrorists & religious fanatics is now relevant, however will require different approaches, resources and tactics than our forefathers used.

Similarly,unions served their purpose in the early 19th century to keep employers honest and eliminate abuse of employees. For that we must all be grateful.

However the pendulum has swung far too much the other way with union inflexibility threatening their own survival (GM case in point).

Time to wake up and move into the 21 century

Some good points....but you are way, way off base when stating that the fight against communism and fascism is not relevant to today. This is an example of the diconnectedness of this type of thinking. To diminish the merit and importance of past events leads to diminishing the institutions that the wisdom of ages has provided. What happened before we exited the womb is extremely relevant. To suggest that it isn't, leads to the mentality that suggest that unions are no longer relevant. They, too, have to change with the times. This is the reality of the 21st century - a reality that requires adaptation and flexibility - not the elimination of a necessary bulwark against worker abuse.

 

[rosemount36]

LCBO does not have good prices. Go compare what Americans pay for the exact same wines. We are getting ripped off by virtue of the fact that a monopoly is setting prices. It should come as no great shock that we pay more. And while we are at it, that profit they run is because they rip us off with prices and it is just another form of tax.

When you compare an average wine's price in the U.S. and Canada, I agree, the U.S. price will be lower. I'm talking about the more high end wines. The prices that we are able to pay on these are much lower as a result of the massive buying power that the LCBO has.

What are your thoughts on how we make up the loss of $1 billion dollars in revenue for the province if we privatize the Liquor Board?

 

[GlavaMan]

yes but it will fix quebec's budget problem in no time flat!

Yep....that's what I will do, make the 15 minute drive over to Quebec & get what I need!

 

[JohnLarue]

Some good points....but you are way, way off base when stating that the fight against communism and fascism is not relevant to today. This is an example of the diconnectedness of this type of thinking. To diminish the merit and importance of past events leads to diminishing the institutions that the wisdom of ages has provided. What happened before we exited the womb is extremely relevant. To suggest that it isn't, leads to the mentality that suggest that unions are no longer relevant. They, too, have to change with the times. This is the reality of the 21st century - a reality that requires adaptation and flexibility - not the elimination of a necessary bulwark against worker abuse.

Bah Bah Bah

The point I was trying to make is that notion that what we found acceptable and necessary 30 years ago may not be as relevant today
Pro unionists seem to want to turn back the clock ad hold onto outdated ideas
There unfortunately will always be some worker abuse to some degree
But kids are no longer going into the coal mines at age 10 & there have been very large strides made in employer funded health care, pensions flexible hours, home workplace balance and workplace safety
(Until recently I would have added job security)
The union movement undoubtedly is responsible for much of that. Thank you

However when it costs a company $72 / hr for a guy with limited skills to bolt a part onto car and that company is going under then there is a problem
I have seen several strong stands by unions in many industries turn into the complete shut down of operation and the loss of many jobs
Similarly when a government wishes to sell off an asset to reduce debt & deliver the product in a more cost efficient way and the union blocks this move then there is a problem
Similarly when a union head attempts to inter-mix his politics (Sid Ryan) with a government funded operation (York University) there is a problem.

I do not expect unions to go away, however I think they must adapt & display a lot less militancy and a lot more flexibility in terms of what is best for the organization first and for the union second

 

[mac]

When you compare an average wine's price in the U.S. and Canada, I agree, the U.S. price will be lower. I'm talking about the more high end wines. The prices that we are able to pay on these are much lower as a result of the massive buying power that the LCBO has.

What are your thoughts on how we make up the loss of $1 billion dollars in revenue for the province if we privatize the Liquor Board?

first of all.....i don't agree with your assertion on pricing of high end wines versus US. I have not found that to be true.

secondly, the real financial benefit to the Ontario provincial budget is not $1billion. The cash flow is substanitally below that but regardless..... it would be made up by charging provincial sales tax on the lower priced spirits so that the net effect to consumers would still be less than the current cost and the Ontario governement would not be out of pocket. Listen....if socialization of retail is suck a good idea then the govenrnment should take over Wal_mart and Canadian Tire too...why just liquor? The answer is because governemnt sucks at optimizing profits and services. That is the fundamental premise for selling LCBO off and allowing it to be broken up.

 

[The LoLRus]

So the LCBO is supposed to have a strike, yet there's not one news article on it

http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&nu...off&q=strike "lcbo"&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn

 

[a 1 player]

Personally I don't care about management, nor unions bargaining problems. What I do care about is when it affects me directly when I have nothing to do with the issue. That REALLY pisses me off.

When a union gets in the way of MY RIGHT to have a beer, get to work, or something else it is total bullshit and I give them no support. Actually, they lose it from me.

 

[dcbogey]

To answer a few questions raised in this thread - it's my understanding that this dispute of about $$$. Currently, permanent employees get benefits, casuals do not. And as I understand it, there aren't any "permanent part-time" employees. A couple of years ago, the premier made a statement that all employees whether parttime or fulltime, should be treated equally. The Union is using this to try to bolster their position.
As far as why this hasn't hit the media - ask the media. All managers have been told they will not be allowed vacation requests over the summer.
We'll see what happens.

 

[hunter001]

When a union gets in the way of MY RIGHT to have a beer

Dude can't you just go to the beer store instead of the LCBO?

 

[hinz]

I don't care if they're represented by the Holy Choir of Angels.

Or worst, represented by somebody acting as if they are Hell Angels!!

 

[a 1 player]

Dude can't you just go to the beer store instead of the LCBO?

Oops, in a fit of anger I meant my right to a drink. I rarely drink beer.

 

[PDSAjax]

When I moved here from the UK I found the whole LCBO concept a huge culture shock. Especially as a wide range of wines, spirits and beers were available back home in most supermarkets and convenience stores.

In fact my local supermarket back home made it a point of corporate policy to support local breweries and producers, not just in alcohol but all produce.

the supervisor of the alcohol section of the supermarket was very knowledgeable and passionate about his job. You could do your shopping, and in passing through the alcohol aisles ask his advice and he would match you up the right drinks for your meal....even suggest changes to your menu to enhance the selections.

the LCBO only has purchasing power cos they are pretty much the only player in a one horse race. Imagine if the supermarkets were truly allowed into the game.......

 

[dcbogey]

.

the LCBO only has purchasing power cos they are pretty much the only player in a one horse race. Imagine if the supermarkets were truly allowed into the game.......

Unless they got together for their purchasing, their power would be diminished as individual buyers.

 

[JohnLarue]

Unless they got together for their purchasing, their power would be diminished as individual buyers.

The LCBO is the single largest purchaser of alcoholic beverages in the world
A Little know but true fact
A little out for proportion for the size of Ontario would you not say?

 

[dcbogey]

The LCBO is the single largest purchaser of alcoholic beverages in the world
A Little know but true fact
A little out for proportion for the size of Ontario would you not say?

Not really when you consider they are the primary source of wine and spirits for 11.4 million people.

 

[shakenbake]

LCBO does not have good prices. Go compare what Americans pay for the exact same wines. We are getting ripped off by virtue of the fact that a monopoly is setting prices. It should come as no great shock that we pay more. And while we are at it, that profit they run is because they rip us off with prices and it is just another form of tax.

hey mac;

The prices are so damnde high because of the taxes, NOT the markup of the LCBO. The U$A has a MUCH lower tax on booze, tobacco and gasoline.

 

[mac]

hey mac;

The prices are so damnde high because of the taxes, NOT the markup of the LCBO. The U$A has a MUCH lower tax on booze, tobacco and gasoline.

so if it were not for taxes, the monopoly would be price competetive? Dream on.

 

[Mao Tse Tongue]

When I moved here from the UK I found the whole LCBO concept a huge culture shock. Especially as a wide range of wines, spirits and beers were available back home in most supermarkets and convenience stores.

In fact my local supermarket back home made it a point of corporate policy to support local breweries and producers, not just in alcohol but all produce.

the supervisor of the alcohol section of the supermarket was very knowledgeable and passionate about his job. You could do your shopping, and in passing through the alcohol aisles ask his advice and he would match you up the right drinks for your meal....even suggest changes to your menu to enhance the selections.

the LCBO only has purchasing power cos they are pretty much the only player in a one horse race. Imagine if the supermarkets were truly allowed into the game.......

The LCBO is also one of the most corrupt organizations in the world. The people at the top decide what wines end up in the stores, and I can assure you they are well compensated by bribes and freebies. It's a fact.