Lawyers!!!!!!!

[Shaunhorny]

If they actually did then I trust you a) filed a professional complaint with the Law Society b) sued them for malpractice.

Yeah, but that costs money. What if the lawyer has no insurance, no assets? Is it worthwhile to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a malpractice case in an attempt to get back less money, which you can't get anyway because the lawyer isn't covered and doesn't have a nickle in assets? You'd pay double just to say "I was right". Doesn't make financial sense.

Lawyers can charge absurd fees, fuck up people's lives, bog down the justice system, and get away with it.

They get away with it most of the time because most people don't have the capacity to understand when their lawyer is doing them wrong. When they're busted by somebody like me (I've been to university, lawyers don't impress me), it makes no difference because they know how to game the system so that they're essentially insulated.

 

[blopar]

exactly how old are you???

Yeah, but that costs money. What if the lawyer has no insurance, no assets? Is it worthwhile to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a malpractice case in an attempt to get back less money, which you can't get anyway because the lawyer isn't covered and doesn't have a nickle in assets? You'd pay double just to say "I was right". Doesn't make financial sense.

Lawyers can charge absurd fees, fuck up people's lives, bog down the justice system, and get away with it.

They get away with it most of the time because most people don't have the capacity to understand when their lawyer is doing them wrong. When they're busted by somebody like me (I've been to university, lawyers don't impress me), it makes no difference because they know how

to game the system so that they're essentially insulated.

* yes, it costs money. Just like lawyers. But my sense is that you think lawyers should be free.

* all lawyers have insurance

* don't know any lawyers without assets

* what is your definition of "absurd fees"? What is your definition of a "reasonable fee"? What would be a reasoanable fee for an accountant? Investment banker? Professional consultant?

* you have been to university. ok. That's great. That's a very exclusive club.

* haven't you learned yet about the secret class that they teach in the washrooms of law schools: "How to Game the System---learning how to charge absurd fees, fuck up people's lives, bog down the justice system, and get away with it". Geesh.

 

[Aardvark154]

Yeah, but that costs money. What if the lawyer has no insurance, no assets? Is it worthwhile to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a malpractice case in an attempt to get back less money, which you can't get anyway because the lawyer isn't covered and doesn't have a nickle in assets? You'd pay double just to say "I was right". Doesn't make financial sense.

Lawyers can charge absurd fees, fuck up people's lives, bog down the justice system, and get away with it.

They get away with it most of the time because most people don't have the capacity to understand when their lawyer is doing them wrong. When they're busted by somebody like me (I've been to university, lawyers don't impress me), it makes no difference because they know how to game the system so that they're essentially insulated.

For a moment let us accept your argument that the lawyer is pennyless. 1) did they have malpractice insurance (generally all lawyers do, you'd be a fool not to) 2) if you have a legitimate grievance you should file a disciplinary complaint - otherwise your logic is confused: i.e. they deliberately wronged me, but I don't care if they wrong anyone else.

Further it doesn't cost more than the postage and cost of photocopying to file a Bar Complaint.

I'm begining to get the feeling that rather than breaching their Fiduciary Duty duty to you, your principle complaint is that you don't agree with the bill from your lawyer and with the result you obtained.

 

[Shaunhorny]

* yes, it costs money. Just like lawyers. But my sense is that you think lawyers should be free.

Your sense is wrong and idiotic.

* all lawyers have insurance

No, not "all" lawyers have insurance. Where do you come up with this shit? They're supposed to; that doesn't mean they do.

* don't know any lawyers without assets

Judging by your previous statements, there is a lot that you don't know.

* what is your definition of "absurd fees"? What is your definition of a "reasonable fee"? What would be a reasoanable fee for an accountant? Investment banker? Professional consultant?

$400+/hr and then screwing you over. Everything about it is absurd.

* you have been to university. ok. That's great. That's a very exclusive club.

The irony was lost on you. The point I was making is that lawyers believe they belong to an exclusive club because they've been to university and hold a law degree. Most laypeople put people that have a post-secondary education on a pedestal believing they're all geniuses and treat them like powerful authority figures. I've been to university, and there are all kinds of idiots walking around on university campuses, including many would-be lawyers.

* haven't you learned yet about the secret class that they teach in the washrooms of law schools: "How to Game the System---learning how to charge absurd fees, fuck up people's lives, bog down the justice system, and get away with it". Geesh.

What is this supposed to mean? I think you're trying to make a point, but you've failed miserably.

 

[Shaunhorny]

For a moment let us accept your argument that the lawyer is pennyless. 1) did they have malpractice insurance (generally all lawyers do, you'd be a fool not to) 2) if you have a legitimate grievance you should file a disciplinary complaint - otherwise your logic is confused: i.e. they deliberately wronged me, but I don't care if they wrong anyone else.

Further it doesn't cost more than the postage and cost of photocopying to file a Bar Complaint.

I'm begining to get the feeling that rather than breaching their Fiduciary Duty duty to you, your principle complaint is that you don't agree with the bill from your lawyer and with the result you obtained.

Did I say anywhere in my post that I didn't file a complaint or that I didn't pursue legal action against my lawyer? No, I simply said it's a costly endeavour, sometimes without any "reward" at the end of the tunnel. Don't get ahead of yourself, sport.

Read more carefully, and never make baseless assumptions.

 

[Shaunhorny]

Not a very rational response.

Is this according to your "sense" again? Don't sense. Deal with facts and logic.

Wrong. Where I practice it is required lest I lose my right to practice.

Good, now I can enlighten you. That's how things work where you practice and unless you practice everywhere, I suppose you don't understand that the rules that apply where you're from may not apply everywhere. Follow me?

Judging by your previous statements, there is a lot that you don't know.

Can't think of original comebacks?

Really. Mine is less than half that.

Ahh, we have a lawyer in the house. My "sense" all along was that you are a lawyer which explains why you're so defensive, but I waited until you stated it yourself. That way I don't make an ass out of myself the way you have when making assumptions about me and mine.

All professions have licensing that restricts those that haven't qualified. Even barbers and funeral directors have licenses. Are they members of exclusive clubs? What about nurses and doctors?

You completely missed the point.

You should be charging even less than what you're charging right now. Based on your responses here, one is better off pro per than letting you handle their case.

Back at you. You've done the same.

lol

 

[Shaunhorny]

Are Doctors and other professionals guarantors of your success? Do attorneys make more than doctors? I think not. Do doctors guarantee success on the operating table? Actually, dentists make more per hour than both other professions.

Take seven years of education and at least 3 years of training and what is the true value of their learned skills.

Who said anything about gaurantee of success?

You continue to make assumptions about my case and you're way off.

Really, I don't care to get into the details. I've said my piece. My point all along is to never trust lawyers. Many of them are scumbags and they've earned their reputation and stereotype.

They don't go to law school and take courses on how to game the system. But by virtue of understanding LAW, one is better equipped to game the system than those who do not have formal training in law. Do you get that?Are you a lawyer playing dumb because you think your audience is dumb?

Sheesh, I'm not here to write a book for your benefit or to state and re-state the obvious for shits and giggles.

Take care of yourself.

 

[Aardvark154]

Did I say anywhere in my post that I didn't file a complaint or that I didn't pursue legal action against my lawyer? No, I simply said it's a costly endeavour, sometimes without any "reward" at the end of the tunnel. Don't get ahead of yourself, sport.

Read more carefully, and never make baseless assumptions.

How the heck is it "a costly endeavour" to file a bar complaint alledging misconduct? It costs fifty-four cents to mail the following form (presuming you live in Ontario).

http://www.lsuc.on.ca/media/helpform.pdf

http://www.lsuc.on.ca/public/a/complaints/

 

[Shaunhorny]

The law, above else, is a learned profession. We are committed to the rule of law and your bitterness is a reflection of your own failures in understanding, as are all citizens, that the rule of law is preeminent in a civil society.

I served in the infantry in combat. The rule of law is far more civil than where I became a man. The pen is truly mightier than the sword; and in my case, the infantry and artillery.

You provide no alternative. I've walked both sides of the street. You misunderstand the love of law that we attorneys aspire to. There is no more civil discourse than in debating an issue with knowledge and skill that is required in our profession. We are not exploiters of the system, but nurturers of our chosen profession.

DonQ, Airborne.

There you have it folks, right from the horses [lawyer's] mouth. Lawyers do no wrong. Malpractice lawsuits shouldn't even exist since lawyers are all about civil society and the rule of law. lol

You certainly are learned in the art of obfuscation and bullshit. Nobody said anything about the law not being preeminent. Maybe you missed the point being that lawyers sometimes side-step the law itself. You need schooling in the science of human behavior.

Maybe you're one of the good guys DonQ, and I certainly appreciate your service in the military. But don't disparage myself and others by presuming that it is our lack of understanding of the place for law in civil society that brings about all grievances towards lawyers. Some of these grievances really do have merit. Blasphemy!

 

[Shaunhorny]

How the heck is it "a costly endeavour" to file a bar complaint alledging misconduct? It costs fifty-four cents to mail the following form (presuming you live in Ontario).

http://www.lsuc.on.ca/media/helpform.pdf

http://www.lsuc.on.ca/public/a/complaints/

Your suggestion was two-fold: 1) file a complaint and 2) pursue legal action (sue) the attorney. The former is not expensive, the latter is. Capiche?

What's with your reading comprehension?

And let me remind you that it costs not only money but TIME. Time is money and other things of value too, that can be better spent than going back and forth in court rooms and filing papers over the course of years. You can never get back time wasted. That's life.

 

[Aardvark154]

Your suggestion was two-fold: 1) file a complain and 2) pursue legal action (sue) the attorney. The former is not expensive. The latter is. Capiche?

What's with your reading comprehension?

It wasn't an either or matter, I gave two options: you could pursue both, or you could pursue one or the other.

You said "it's a costly endeavour, sometimes without any "reward" at the end of the tunnel." As I have now pointed out no less than three times, you had a non-costly option and one which presuming the lawyer actually was involved in serious misconduct could result in him/her being disbarred, A rather large "bang" for fifty-four cents.

Given your continuing anger seemingly that didn’t happen. This really has started to sound like the medical malpractice suit the basis of which is "but they died on the operating table, after you said you'd try to save them."

 

[Shaunhorny]

It wasn't an either or matter, I gave two options: you could pursue both, or you could pursue one or the other.

Re-read your sentence. It contradicts itself.

You say that it wasn't either/or, and then you say you gave me an either/or option.

You said "it's a costly endeavour, sometimes without any "reward" at the end of the tunnel." As I have now pointed out no less than three times, you had a non-costly option and one which presuming the lawyer actually was involved in serious misconduct could result in him/her being disbarred, A rather large "bang" for fifty-four cents.

You've obviously never been involved in a case like this because you're merely pontificating on what you think would or should happen. What if the "misconduct" wasn't "serious"? What if it's "negligence"? Or is that "serious"? Lots of terminology gets thrown around, with no absolute meaning. And reporting a complaint doesn't lead to automatic disbar even if you're in the right. Nor are you guaranteed to get money back that you lost resulting from said 'misconduct' or 'negligence'.

Like I've said to you already, you don't know whether I did or did not file a complaint. Maybe I did and it didn't do anything or didn't do as much as I wanted. Or maybe it did all that it could do but that just wasn't enough to right the wrong.

Given your continuing anger seemingly that didn’t happen. This really has started to sound like the medical malpractice suit the basis of which is "but they died on the operating table, after you said you'd try to save them."

That's not at all what it was about. It was not that serious. It's business related, not death related. If it was medical malpractice resulting in death, there'd be another dead lawyer out there already.

 

[Aardvark154]

It was not that serious. It's business related, not death related.

For something not that serious you surely seem to be quite irrational about the subject.


So piecing this together, you filed a Bar Complaint, it was denied. You've made the comments you have because your case wasn't unfounded, rather it was all a vast conspiracy by the Upper Canada Bar to protect their own. Okey Dokey.

 

[Shaunhorny]

For something not that serious you surely seem to be quite irrational about the subject.

I may be upset about what happened but I'm not irrational. If people could do wrong to me without me getting upset, I wouldn't be a normal person and I'd be taken advantage of every day. When people take what is mine, earned through lots of blood and sweat, yes, I get upset and it's understandable.

Compounding the issue is when you have a lawyer on Terb arrive who has no knowledge of the case making ludicrous statements about it and its messenger.

So piecing this together, you filed a Bar Complaint, it was denied. You've made the comments you have because your case wasn't unfounded, rather it was all a vast conspiracy by the Upper Canada Bar to protect their own. Okey Dokey.

Nothing you've stated here makes any sense nor has any shred of truth to it. It's quite bizarre. And you want to call me irrational?

 

[Shaunhorny]

Well it is obvious that none of Shaun's problems with a lawyer happened in Ontario, because if it had the outcome would have been very different. Unless of course Shaun is not telling an accurate version.

Bingo! Happened south of the border.

Now I suppose we'll have a lawyer chime in how lawyers in Canada are intrinsically different from lawyers elsewhere. They're all good up here. lol

Netting $2k/day? I wish.

 

[Aardvark154]

Compounding the issue is when you have a lawyer on Terb arrive who has no knowledge of the case making ludicrous statements about it and its messenger.

Those of us who have had the displeasure of dealing with lawyers know that 'getting screwed by lawyers' is all too true. Prior to my experiences with them, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. The very first experience with one onward taught me that they're deserving of their reputation. Utter human trash.

Whatever.

 

[Shaunhorny]

Whatever.

Seems consistent to me. Well, certainly the Terb lawyer did nothing to persuade one to think lawyers aren't lying scumbags. Or did you buy the lines about how all lawyers aspire to uphold civil society? hahaha. He should stick to legalese, he'll sound smarter.

 

[Aardvark154]

Now back to the lawyer jokes ...

Why can lawyers safely swim in shark infested waters?



Professional courtesy.

 

[Shaunhorny]

Without the rule of law you'd be barbarians.

Fact is you already are barbarians. We don't create the problems, yet we have to clean up the mess you made. Fuck off.

From page 2 of this thread.

Spoken like a true lawyer. True colors revealed. Need I say more?

Why didn't you quote that Aardvark? Maybe you missed that pearl of wisdom from a lawyer.

 

[jessica4u]

Rotflmao